<p>B-schooler, If you really think that kids need multivariable calculus in high school to even succeed in college, you are certainly cutting out lots of kids from the very beginning.
Engineer husband (CMU) , I believe had calculus in high school.
Older engineer grad son (UVa)had AP BC calc in high school but that was as far as it went in his high school.Also had AP Physics.
Younger engineer son (Virginia Tech) had AP Physics , AP Statistics in high school but never took calculus . He’s a junior and I’m looking at his schedule-had chem, linear alg. and calculus as freshman first semester, calc, vector geometry and physics second semester.
Sophomore had multivariable calc and physics,statics,etc. first semester. Diff. Equations,Theoretical Statistics,Dynamics,etc second semester. He has a 3.89 GPA. If someone had discouraged him from going into engineering because he had not taken calculus in high school,I believe it would have been a mistake.
Many people here have said that there is more money in things like consulting. Some kids in engineering are going that route. That is nothing new. There still are people out there that have had satisfying careers as engineers (but maybe they are going the way of the dinosaur). My husband has been one of them.Engineering does provide lots of career paths and employers seem to like the analytical and mathematical skills that many trained as engineeers seem to have. So,that is always good.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>While I agree that US high schools do a poor job at teaching math (a large percentage, perhaps the majority, of four year college bound students need remedial math courses in college), I disagree that one has to be two grades ahead in math to succeed in engineering.</p>
<p>Normal grade level = ready for calculus as a college freshman: This is the minimum level of math needed to start a four year engineering degree program as a freshman. While it is advantageous to be ahead as described below, success in engineering can be done from this level.</p>
<p>One grade level ahead = completed calculus BC in high school: This is advantageous compared to normal grade level, since it allows completing additional math before, rather than concurrently to, its use in physics and engineering courses (e.g. multivariable calculus before physics electromagnetism, differential equations before circuits and electronics). But, while advantageous, it is not completely necessary.</p>
<p>Two grade levels ahead = completed multivariable calculus, linear algebra, and differential equations at a college while in high school: This is even better, though somewhat of diminishing returns beyond one grade level ahead, unless one wants to take additional more theoretical math (e.g. algebra and number theory for cryptography in computer science).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Really? Then how did my kid get her degree in engineering (and another major too) without any of the above?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>HCI or the more general term Human Factors Engineering is based on experimental psychology, cognitive engineering, physiology, industrial design, computer science, and industrial engineering. The heavier focus areas would be psych, compsci, and industrial engineering. It is a very interdisciplinary field.</p>
<p>Math wise it is fairly light (explains my profound success) in calculus compared to EE or other calculus based engineering disciplines but fairly heavy on probability theory, statistics, operations research, and so on. </p>
<p>Extremely entertaining… Schools that offer good programs include Purdue, GA Tech, Wright State and U Dayton (much of the early work was done at Wright Patterson AF Base in Dayton OH) and so on. If you have a student that loves gadgets and design it would be a great match.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s why I suggested a 5 year BEng degree like the BArch for architects…</p>
<p>Turbo93,
CMU, Toronto, Stanford, Berkeley, MIT. DS almata</p>
<p>Turbo93,
CMU, Toronto, Stanford, Berkeley, MIT also have premier & exemplary programs.
DS schools were CMU and Toronto.</p>
<p>Re the OP: because it is brutally difficult perhaps?</p>
<p>LongPrime, Is the program at CMU within engineering or computer science? CMU is a great school-husband graduated in the 70’s and his dad in early 40’s. It has really come a long way since its’ early days as Carnegie Institute of Technology.
I’ll also put a plug in for Virginia Tech,turbo. I did some research and HFE is one of the things you can specialize in at the graduate level in the Department of Industrial and Systems Engineering there. Not sure how that particular subspecialty is there but in general Virginia Tech does pretty well in Industrial with US News (I guess take those rankings as you will). They rank the programs (seems to be based on peer assessment) with Georgia Tech an number 1. Michigan 2. Berkeley 3. Tied at 4: Northwestern,Penn State, Stanford and Virginia Tech.<br>
8.Cornell 9. Texas A & M 10. Purdue and Wiscosin (tied).
Is the MIT program in Computer Science or something else? It seems HFE in particular crosses disciplines.</p>
<p>I’m partial to midwestern/southern schools for common mortals :-). </p>
<p>Here’s a more complete set of lists of HCI programs. Not all of them are engineering programs (some are CogSci, Psych, etc).</p>
<p>[Human</a> Factors and Ergonomics Society: Undergraduate Programs](<a href=“http://www.hfes.org/Web/Students/undergradprograms.html]Human”>http://www.hfes.org/Web/Students/undergradprograms.html)
[Human</a> Factors and Ergonomics Society: HFES Graduate Program Directory Table of Contents](<a href=“http://www.hfes.org/Web/Students/grad_programs.html]Human”>http://www.hfes.org/Web/Students/grad_programs.html)
[HCI</a> Degree Programs - Resources](<a href=“http://www.humanfactors.com/downloads/degrees.asp]HCI”>HFI | Page not found)</p>
<p>Its in CS. Limited enrollment, sophomore and above acceptance, as a dual major, quota enrollment in CS, HSS, Design. DS '06 went the CIT/Meche route.</p>
<p>Thanks,LongPrime, Sounds like a great combination.
Thanks also, turbo93, for the info.</p>
<p>And LongPrime (re: #107)- a tip for your son- “Women Go Crazy 'Bout a Sharp Dressed Man.”</p>
<p>His mother still buys many of his clothes. We live in a no sales tax state, home of NIKE, COLUMBIA, other branded sportswear. He lives in a 9.5% sales tax state. </p>
<p>Kinda hoping that GF will dress the guy. Which was one of the first things that DW did to me, unfortunately. ;)</p>
<p>One of the problems of electronic hardware engineering is leapfrogging technologies. Suppose and If, Intel, comes out with a new technology, that technology may run for 3-6 years. So if you are unlucky enough to work on the current technology, your expertise although hard won is already obsolete-because someone is already working on the next generation and another group, a generation after that. </p>
<p>I had carpooled with a Intel person in the early 80’s. The 80286 systems were being introduced. When we broke up the carpool 2 years later, the 80386 systems were in the WINTEL test phases and prototype chips were being manufactured for 2 clock speeds higher. You know that Intel was already working on the 586 with the 486 out of the design phase.</p>
<p>It’s the engineer’s responsibility to keep up technically with what is current. That may be in industry or it may be internally. I don’t see how that is different from many other professions.</p>
<p>The same problem in electronics is in computers as well - you don’t have the right version of the anointed tools or languages in your resume, it’s curtains…</p>
<p>It’s pretty much a recipe that guarantees endless churn in the field, as well as the search for the proverbial purple squirrels…</p>
<p>There are still jobs that use old tools and methods and just seem to go on forever.</p>
<p>Sure there are some old legacy systems still around, but those who stay up on the latest technologies are going to have more options in the work force.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>Perhaps.</p>
<p>There are still lots of shops doing legacy work and it’s important legacy work. The skills in building development and test systems, doing low-level stuff, operating systems stuff and platform work is still pretty old-school. You don’t work on things with fancy knobs and dials because your software has to work on multiple platforms so you work with the lowest common denominator. So you have flexibility within this world and it may not be as small as you think. There are still a ton of shops, very large and very small, that still grind things out using gcc, vi, grep and awk.</p>