Why the lack of "love"

Paying for College
1

<p>For prestigious schools on these posts? It seems like 90% of posts/replies saying people who want/hope to attend a “pricey” school are wasting their $$$…Is everyone who currently attending these type school wasting their money? Are they not as smart as to realize they are wasting their $$$? Are the only smart ones those who attend a lower priced school? ;)</p>

<p>I wonder the outrage if someone posted how cheap schools are just that? Imagine the horror :)</p>

<p>I am amazed at how many people think a 10k or less per year education is as good as one that cost 40k+…Those parents who pay over 40k must really be suckers… ;)</p>

2

<p>Is a 40k education worth more than a 10k education? Yes.</p>

<p>Is a 40k education worth 30k more than a 10k education? Possibly.</p>

<p>Is a 40k education worth 30k + interest + 15 years spent paying off student loans? No way.</p>

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<p>I don’t know what you’re trying to say here, but I think the main problem that some of us have is that people are talking about going over $100k in debt to go to an extremely expensive school. Even without law- or medical school, that’s a crushing burden. The people who go to those schools aren’t wasting their money or being stupid, but if they have to borrow heavily – especially from private sources – they are setting themselves up for financial hardship in the future. That’s not saying that no one should ever go to a pricier school, or that no one should ever borrow for school, but it’s important to be smart. </p>

<p>A lot of kids here really don’t have experience living on their own and managing all of those bills without substantial parental assistance; they might have part-time jobs to pay some bills, but they don’t really know how much even a Spartan existence (that is, no cable, no Internet, no cell phone, just the basic necessities to sustain life) can really cost. Having a bunch of massive payments and the constant threat of default isn’t really worth it in many cases, no matter how good the school.</p>

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<p>I think you may confusing “prestigious” and “pricey”. While it is true that most prestigious schools are pricey, certainly not all pricey schools are prestigious. Might the former be worth spending more? Perhaps if you can afford it without bankrupting either your future or your parents. </p>

<p>IMHO…there are plenty of $15K - $30K schools that can deliver as good or better of an education (and college experience) as MANY of the $40K+ “pricey” schools.</p>

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<p>Agree with Amarkov, Gardna, and aglages. There’s nothing wrong with prestigious schools, and if you have the money (or great financial aid) – great! enjoy!</p>

<p>Pretty much the same as buying a wonderful house overlooking the water, with a beautiful yacht docked behind. If your circumstances allow that, I’m sure you would enjoy it. But if trying to do so requires you to go into hock up to your eyeballs – it isn’t worth it. </p>

<p>Students whose families are not able to cough up $53K a year without significant debt need to look at other options, and realize that they usually have some really, really good options that are affordable. </p>

<p>And like Gardna says, most kids have no idea the crushing weight debt puts on people. Right now, the difference between $5,500 a year in debt and $25,000 a year in debt is just funny money from their perspective. Lots of magical thinking that comes to a bitter end once they begin paying off that debt. Or leaving it to their parents, with the nonchalant belief that their parents’ retirement will just take care of itself. </p>

<p>Nothing wrong with the prestige school, or the $250 pair of prestige jeans. But you’d have a hard time convincing me that the education I received at a great state school very inexpensively was somehow not quite up to spec, or that the $45 jeans don’t work just fine.</p>

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<p>arabrab said what I was thinking and for those who don’t have to think about the costs, this question doesn’t typically come up and/or they view the prestigious option as very worth it.</p>

<p>From the other side of the financial spectrum and from working in HR and reviewing resumes regularly I don’t necessarilly feel it matters nearly as much. For specific programs and specialities I feel there is value but for mainstream degrees, no, I just don’t think it justifies larger debt because for us it would be taken on as debt.</p>

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<p>Students and parents sometimes conflate “prestige” and “well-known to the general public” and “highly-ranked” and “expensive” and “quality.” These are not the same things at all, but they’re often used interchangeably on these boards.</p>

<p>Of course, there’s nothing wrong with, say, an Ivy. But students are sometimes blinded by a name, and don’t look at the things that will actually make a difference in their college years and beyond. Cost has been mentioned, and students should also look at the quality of the school’s department that they’re interested in, location, extracurriculars, recreational opportunities, among other factors. Decisions should be made on those things, not on the “bragging rights” factor, which I’m afraid sometimes overshadows everything else.</p>

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<p>It’s interesting that you use the word love here. It is because I love my child so much and want him to have a great life that I am so troubled at the prospect of his incurring $40,000 or more in additional student loan debt to attend one prestigious university over another slightly less prestigious institution. Our son has dreams of moving to a big East Coast city when he graduates to live and work, and I’m not sure if he fully realizes how a giant student loan can limit his choices. His mother and I know from personal experience how hard it can be on young adults when they are starting out and the difficult choices that must be made at times. We have difficulty trying to imagine what our life might have been like had we been responsible for the 1985 equivalent of $40k in student loans.</p>

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<p>There are a lot of pricey privates that aren’t worth ANY debt if a debt-free option is available.</p>

<p>There are some elite privates that are worth a modest amount of debt. </p>

<p>But no undergrad education is worth $100k+ in debt.</p>

10

<p>I need to clarify one point, i believe that one should attend a school they can afford,regardless if it is an Ivy,a State or a CC…I just have read way too many posts whacking a school that might cost 30k or more,regardless is the poster can afford it or not…Many posts say “Not worth the $$$”,though a few will have the caveat of “if you can afford it, it’s your money!!!”…</p>

<p>What is pricey to some, 25-30K, is not pricey to others, so it is all relative…I have friends who go to school in Florida, for a cost of less then 1 week at an ocean front rental…When he hears that Penn State costs 25K+,or U Pitt(my favorite ,best value school in Pa) is 30k+, he can’t believe it…</p>

<p>Then you have others whose children attend Georgetown at 50k+, and they think Penn State is a GREAT deal…all relative…</p>

11

<p>Let me say that I am a Professor in the graduate school of an Ivy League University. I went to Vassar, but the majority of the other profs did not attend private undergraduate colleges. Many got terrific educations at public colleges. They then went to very selective graduate programs. We accept many students who did not attend Ivy League or even selective private colleges.</p>

<p>My advice is to attend the school that is a good match that you can afford. For my own kids, we are trying to keep the debt under $20,000. If they feel that the smaller private college is a better match, we will do what we can do, but I do not think that saddling yourself with extreme amounts of debt is productive in the long run.</p>

<p>I will say that it is quite a statement on the tuition assistance plan of my school that I cannot automatically afford to send my kids to an Ivy or other similar private college.</p>

12

<p>qdogpa…</p>

<p>Many kids post on CC saying that they’re going to borrow lots of money to go to Higher Rank U over Mid Rank U. Doing so is often not necessary and will leave them with crushing debt.</p>

<p>Also, many kids will say the above AND say that they want to go to med school (which will require an additional $200k+ in big debt). These kids wrongly think that because they’re going to be doctors, that they can easily pay back $300k in debt. They forget that they have to pay much of that debt back before they’re ever making a top income. They just think…Doctor = Rich = Easy payback of huge loans.</p>

13

<p>My oldest attended private schools from K through college graduation- including very $$$$ which are @ the level to which OP is referring.</p>

<p>However- we also received very generous need based financial aid for her to attend those schools- making her college basically the same outlay as if she had attended our instate public school.</p>

<p>But I have also heard other families, who didn’t qualify for any aid- and who spent $$$$ for tuition to recently comment that they wished they had that money back. That there are other schools that may be not have been quite as good of a fit, but when they considered where else that money could have been used instead- the decision actually limited choices rather than expanded them.</p>

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<p>I agree with what mom2collegekids said in #12, and I’ll add this: High school kids generally have no idea of how debt could ruin their lives, doctor or not. This makes them sitting ducks for the big-loan pitch. We’re just trying to make them stop and think about what seems like an easy way to make their educational dreams come true.</p>

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<p>Yes, unfortunately, some of them are! I know kids at private LAC’s who are paying around $40K per year and not getting any better education/opportunities/college experience than they could get at one of the LAC-like state colleges for less than half the cost! Even the facilities are comparable, or slightly better at state U! Many of these parents are not in the category where they can easily afford this and they are actually taking out some loans to pay for this…and yes, they deeply regret it. Why? Kid had a dream school mentality and never got the “wake up call” or parents were under the belief that it will help kid get into a better grad school or get a better job. The former is not a good enough reason to spend tens of thousands more than you can afford. The latter is just patently untrue in most cases. </p>

<p>Everyone here is encouraged to make rational, responsible, and realistic financial decisions, whatever their choices or situation may be…that’s not a lack of “love”, that’s survival in the real adult world that exists beyond college! There are numerous threads advising kids that some debt is worth it for a much better/prestigious college, or even a lesser known school with an outstanding program, even if they got a full ride elsewhere. But there is a cut-off point and it depends on the kid’s intended path/career or other extenuating circumstances (ie. lack of family support = little/no access to extra loans = unlikely to be able to afford four years at HighCostU).</p>

<p>qdogpa, if you are aware of realistic ways for these kids to finance their educations without crippling their financial lives after college, you should feel free to answer their posts as well! But please remember that parents also need to have financial options in order to maintain their future lifestyle!</p>

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<p>It depends on what one means by “a good education”? Does it mean potential for future employment/earnings? Does it mean the level of knowledge one might acquire? Does it mean the “kind of people” one will rub arms with while at college? How are you measuring the value of a college bachelor’s degree? When your children walk across that stage and flip their tassels to the other side, how will you know they’ve received “a good education”?</p>

<p>It is true that phrases like “She’s a Yale grad.” certainly imply “good education,” but many Yale grads are unemployed, too. And the phrase “He’s a State U. grad.” may not carry the same implication (though it doesn’t necessarily imply a poor education either), but many of those graduates are very, very successful. </p>

<p>It seems like “good education” is a sort of “lead a horse to water” argument. The opportunities are there – at both the Ivies and at so-called lesser schools – and ambitious, bright, forward-looking students will make a success of their lives wherever they go. I think perhaps that is why many people kind of scoff at taking on major debt for a prestigious college. If you can afford it, great. Your kid will probably have a great time at college. But if it’s not affordable without accumulating tremendous debt, a bright, motivated kid can make a success of him or herself somewhere more affordable. So many then ask, why choose the debt? If it is deemed “worth it,” what is the specific meaning of that worth? Worth it how, precisely?</p>

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<p>A person who isn’t ambitious at a state school, will fail just as likely as a person who isn’t ambitious at a prestigious school.</p>

<p>The difference lies in those with a good work ethic. Are you going to tell me that a person who works hard at some lesser school, will open the same doors as he would if he worked hard at Yale or Stanford or MIT? </p>

<p>It’d be ridiculous to even attempt to argue that.</p>

<p>That’s what’s so ridiculous about this sub forum in general. People immediately assume that in an argument of school versus school, that the person aspiring to go to Harvard is going to half-ass it once they’re there, but they’ll be the next Einstein if they go to some state university. </p>

<p>Where did this false dilemma come from?</p>

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<p>Of course not, but most of the FA threads are NOT about Ivy league vs state U. They are about OOS state U’s with big loans vs instate. Or expensive LAC vs. instate public. Mostly they’re about finding the right mix of debt and aid that will allow the kid to graduate from a good school without being swamped in student loans. </p>

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<p>Do you read this forum on a regular basis? I have yet to see posts regarding the ability to do well in either type of school…that’s usually discussed in pre-med. pre-law or parents forum. But there is a difference between grading policies at high schools and colleges and to ignore the fact that some schools have grade inflation and some deflation is to risk not getting a gpa needed for med school, top law schools, etc. It may not be a reason not to go to a better school, but it’s something to be aware of. High school grades are often not good predictors of college success.</p>

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<p>Excuse me, but I don’t find such arguments “ridiculous” at all. What do you mean “open the same doors”? Are you talking about employment? Income? Networking? Graduate school? “Lesser” schools place students in high-paying jobs, send students to prestigious graduate programs, and have alumni who also are willing to help out a fellow alumnus. Moreover, the most ambitious students at “lesser” schools typically take part in prestigious summer internship opportunities that also “open doors” for them. Again, I think parents should send their kids wherever they can afford to send them, but I do believe the “value” of an expensive prestigious school, if it involves 6 figures in loans versus no debt, just does not merit the debt, and I am yet to hear a convincing argument for why it does other than “it’s just worth it.”</p>

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<p>As a senior in high school, the cost of college weighs heavily on my mind…</p>

<p>In an ideal world, no one would have to waste money on college, and parental incomes should not count-- the low income student who finds him or herself shut out or the upper middle class working family who can’t really afford their EFC should both not exist. No one should get ripped off. Some public education systems (Europe) provide all with a low-cost education, but at the expense of a system where grades and standardized test scores (mainly latter) count for everything, students must choose their profession at age 18, and there is not half the amount of choice American students get. i don’t know how it’s like in Asia or South America …</p>

<p>I digress…</p>

<p>I believe different judgments on the value of an education would stem from different situations:</p>

<p>It depends if you want to go to graduate school or prof. school. I think it would be a ripoff of pay 30K at the better ranked school if you want to be a doctor, for example. Sadly, I know a lot of students who want to be doctors, lawyers, Businessmen, or PhD who are breaking the bank at private schools. I interviewed for an Ivy League and my interviewer told me he went to OSU Law School after going to Harvard. No one cares if you got a BA at Harvard if you broke the bank and had to get your MD from a average State U. You’ll be paid just as much as the guy who went from State U to State U.
PhD’s are not as expensive, but you if you’re in debt you won’t be paying it off on a grad student’s salary.</p>

<p>If I was going for college only I might shift to the other side. If you bachelor’s is the degree people will be seeing then the better opportunities you get from 30K private school might outweigh cost of big state u</p>

<p>Another confounding factor is the the differing values people put on prestige. I was looking into medicine, and found out grads from famous private schools don’t make significantly more money than those from average med schools. For some people the prestige of going to the Ivy League might be worth a lot, though, to the point of making personal sacrifices.</p>

<p>In the end, ripoff is relative. I think that a lot of HS seniors like me put to much value on prestige and are too idealistic (“I need to go to Duke, 'cause its the best ranked school I got into. Why go to state U when I can do better!”) and that a lot of parents put too much emphasis on value (“You need to go to Wright State since it will be free if you keep a 3.5 GPA and stay on the swim team”) [i am not ratting on wright state, I just picked them since they were last on USNWR list] </p>

<p>Does anyone else agree with this generalization on parents and students? Anyone disagree?</p>