Will Ivy League athletic recruiting standards drop significantly?

Athletic Recruits
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Don’t know if I agree with that. Maryland, Virginia, Duke, Hopkins, Michigan, ND, BC…all compete with the Ivies for lax players. Stanford, USC, Florida have women’s teams but not men’s teams. Northwestern has a very good women’s team (I think 20 national championships).

But this has been going on for a long time, and some go to the Ivies and some to these other high ranking (academically and lax) schools.

I have heard that about the transfer portal too, that coaches like it because they are getting older, more experienced players and hs players have to find a spot, and a starting spot, at schools they may not have considered in the past.

Not sure how it will all shake out after covid eligibility is over, but I have no worries about the Ivies surviving and thriving.

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Oh, I agree there are some of those programs that compete with Ivies. But it seems like a pretty small portion of future P2 programs field lacrosse teams. It isn’t as if every SEC and B1G school will have highly compensated lacrosse rosters.

In any case I think we mostly agree on what the effects will be.

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Former Yale baseball coach Bob Stuper says all D1 baseball schools will be subjected to the roster limits.

I have heard this on other baseball podcasts as well. If only P5 schools opt-in and the roster limit wasn’t across all of D1, having a 34 man roster and playing against other D1 schools with the current 40 man roster limit would create competitive imbalances, and this will be the case regardless of the sport. My feeling is it will be across all of D1, or perhaps the schools that opt-in will have to create a new division.

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I’m not sure a former Ivy League coach really can know this definitively at this point. My kid’s current Ivy League coach(not baseball) told the parents just last week that the Ivy League has not made a decision yet about this and they are moving ahead with current roster sizes.

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Any sport that reduces the roster size will have to phase in the change. There are other NCAA rules that protect athletes from being dropped from the team or a scholarship loss and that would be too hard to regulate. Would a coach drop 6 seniors? Not recruit 6 new players and have that year always be tiny? I’d guess that if a team was going from 40 to 34, they’d go down by 2 players per year until they reached the new team size.

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Sure, but how do you get from 75 to 45?

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I am hanging my hope on Ivies opting out of revenue sharing and keeping things as is. Still, it will be more competitive for recruits as few spots are available at power conferences. More important than ever to focus on grades along with the sport.

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I’m with you there. Since there are no athletic scholarships and Ivy was late to the game allowing NILs, I don’t think they’ll jump at a revenue sharing model any time soon.

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The Power 5/4 have rules* to guarantee scholarships for recruited athletes who remain in good standing, but not slots on the team. In other words, you can stay and earn your degree on scholarship, but will not be on the team to practice or play. If you put your name in the portal, however, the school can pull your scholarship even if you choose to remain.

*not NCAA requirement, however

Since the Ivy League does not offer schollies, they could cut slots/teams at any time if they were willing to accept the blowback.

That’s not much different than a coach recruiting 6 hot shot 1st years, and the seniors get cut when they get beat out (for cut sports). Alternatively, ‘Next year, we only have funding for 34 slots, so we’ll have tryouts after the Frosh arrive on campus.’

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I’ve waded thru the whining and hubris present in that article, thanks for posting. A few thoughts:

To preserve the integrity of Ivy League athletics, we must respond to the forces threatening it. Too few people truly appreciate how the Ivy League model differs from the big-money approach at other conferences.

The changes coming to D1 athletics are not going to be controllable by the Ivy League. Of course, the league and schools can control their responses. A move to D3 could make sense…much of what is written in that article describes high academic D3 schools.

Boosters at some schools have, however, structured deals that resemble blatant pay-to-play transactions. Last year, a handful of underclassmen left Ivy League basketball teams for conferences where they reportedly secured six-figure NIL deals.

Probably the right choice for these athletes.

The second threat is existential. Courts and the National Labor Relations Board are now considering claims that could force the Ivy League to treat its varsity athletes as employees.

That issue is at stake, for example, in proceedings about the Dartmouth men’s basketball team’s effort to unionize. Also, Penn and Cornell alumni are among the named plaintiffs in a suit seeking to apply federal wage and hour law to varsity athletes.

These claims strike at the heart of Ivy League athletics. At Princeton, varsity athletic programs, like our other extracurricular activities, exist for the benefit of the participating students, not the administration, donors, or alumni.

We want students to play only if doing so enhances their education. Any form of pay-to-play would damage that fundamental commitment.

Not sure I understand the logic of how athletes-as-employees would damage that fundamental commitment.

But to preserve our approach, we must have a voice in the national conversation about college sports reform. That starts by raising awareness for how our model differs from that at Alabama or even Stanford.

I hope that many alumni will join me in spreading the word about the importance of safeguarding the Ivy League model and the Princeton philosophy of “education through athletics.”

David is not going to beat Goliath in this case.

Again, the Ivy League can control their response to the NCAA changes. Everyone expects the league and its schools will not opt in to revenue sharing (assuming that is finalized.) That change, the growth of NIL, and the highly possible athletes-as-employees classification means recruiting is going to change in the Ivy League, and in some sports the talent level may decrease.

The league might not find its best fit in D1 anymore, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Regardless what division the league plays in, I don’t think all these changes (many welcome and/or necessary) mean the League’s organizing principle “ to hold paramount the academic programs of [each] institution and the academic and personal growth of the student-athlete” must be lost.

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They appear to be resigned to that. Much of the resentment (not only by the Ivy League) is that only P4 schools (69) were involved in the litigation and the other ~300 schools had no seat at the table/were not able to contribute their thoughts to the settlement. These 300 schools have also been saddled with much of the payment obligations despite the fact they are not really on the receiving end of the $$.

I didn’t think he was begrudging those athletes, just acknowledging a fact.

I think they want athletes free to play out of enjoyment not obligation. I know Ivy athletes that chose a class trip/internship over NCAA championships. I also know P5 athletes that resent being beholden to their scholarship (a financial need) and the coaches say on their academic path.

I certainly hope they choose this over cutting athletes and defunding teams.

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Definitely understand this. There is still time to separate out the schools that opt in to the revenue sharing model into a different NCAA division…seems like that might be best not only for the P4 schools (and maybe some others that opt in to revenue sharing) but also for the remaining 296 or so D1 schools. Part of the fundamental issue is that all D1 schools don’t have the same athletic goals/philosophies, so the right answer for some schools (and athletes) is not the right answer (and can even be the wrong answer) for some others.

They won’t have this problem if they switch to D3. And if they do stay in D1, the student-athlete can still quit their “job”, same as any student with a job. The plus in the Ivy League is that quitting one’s “job” would have no/minimal impact on a student’s financial aid package, unlike in some other schools.

Same. Will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

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Rumor for wrestling is there will be two D1 national championships. Revenue sharing and non-revenue sharing.

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Interesting, thanks for sharing. That could make sense for many sports IMO.

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