William and Mary [$61k], Santa Clara [$57k], St. Olaf [$36k], Bryn Mawr [$53], UNC-CH [$57k]

My daughter did not see grade inflation or deflation at UNC, but maybe others had a different experience.

As for premed classes, some do very well while others might not. Lots of factors to look at. Intro classes are big (classes do get smaller) and it is a good idea to sit front and center. Profs are very approachable and my daughter became close with several, going to their home for dinner, traveling with them for research, bike riding, etc. She still keeps in touch with them.

Research is abundant and very easy to get. There is no competition with grad students (I would ask how it is now). If publishing is something you want, it can happen. My daughter was involved since November of her first year (again, ask how it is now).

Greek life is there but mostly off campus. If you don’t want to see it, it is easy to avoid and not an issue at all.

She spent time with her research group, went to dinner etc. She was also involved in several clubs which contributed to her social life, and had several volunteer positions.

I would not describe UNC as artsy, but it’s there if you want it. Carrboro, down the street, would be considered artsy imo. Chapel Hill is a nice college town, and the community really meshes with the campus. The school is pretty, but parts of it need work.

My daughter found the school to be intellectual- zero complaints there. Lots of discussions with profs and students, you can hear these discussions in restaurants etc. The work was nicely balanced for her- not too easy, not too hard. She worked and did very well (bio/chem).

It is a great school, but…

It might be too big for this student given the other schools.

Adding: some students are preppy, others are definitely not. It is a sporty school, but some are not sporty at all. There is definitely not a rich vibe…at all (coming from a wealthy HS). There is economic diversity.

Most come from NC…that could an issue for some, not for others. Some definitely need time to adjust to that, but there are students from all over.

Again…might not be the right fit for this student given that she loved St Olaf.

1 Like

UNC has this vibe as well. How is she in situations where a lot of people already know each other? Students are generally friendly at UNC but many in-staters know each other - can she dive in and cultivate friendships or is she more of an introvert?

UNC has an active Greek life, but they don’t wear Greek letters there (or at least they didn’t when my daughter was there), so it doesn’t feel like Greek life is dominating campus.

If med school is the goal, she should choose an undergrad which will put her in the best position to become a desirable med school candidate.

Good luck - great options!

1 Like

Based on your description, any of St Olaf, Bryn Mawr, or William & Mary seem like possibly excellent choices.

I’d also echo the above sentiment of considering Bryn Mawr as possibly being a relatively special place for a woman in Physics. That in fact is a big theme of their departmental page:

I would not say this means St Olaf or W&M would be UNsupportive, but I do think some women would value that experience at Bryn Mawr.

4 Likes

I’d be happy to answer any questions from the parent POV about Santa Clara University. Our DD is a grad of the school, and really, we can’t say enough good things about her experience there.

4 Likes

It sounds like St Olaf is the way to go here, it ticks off all the boxes (except for the weather!). And bonus for it being the most affordable! My daughter will be attending this fall and I am thrilled she chose St Olaf. Heck, I want to go to St Olaf :smile:

4 Likes

Given the comment on pedigree and UNC, that might be the issue.

I get it - people love St. Olaf.

But it’s not a known name in society - so that might be OP’s daughter concern.

Obviously, people know W&M and then to a lesser extent Santa Clara (D1 sports) and Bryn Mawr (just a well known name).

On the list, in my estimation, St. Olaf is by far the least known - and that probably enters the mind.

If prestige were an issue, W&M is truly in parallel to UNC or very close - so perhaps that’s why the student would choose it - although from a cost POV (since OP is seeking merit), St. Olaf is the easy win.

1 Like

Has she verbalized anything new? Concerns etc?

Congratulations on receiving such wonderful college acceptances! Your daughter’s hard work has clearly paid off, and she now has many great options to choose from. I understand your thoughtful and loving approach to balancing fit, rigor, cost, and culture when selecting a college. Since you’re in the final stages of your decision-making process, I’ll focus more on the ā€œintangiblesā€ and student culture, particularly those that might differ from what your daughter hopes for.

Let’s start with William & Mary. As a Monroe Scholar, your daughter would gain access to exclusive small seminars, research stipends, and faculty mentorship—all significant perks, especially for a pre-med track in Physics. This school is personal to me because my daughter just enrolled through W&M’s Spring Pathway. My daughter, like yours, is also artsy, creative, but is traditionally extroverted. W&M has proven to be an excellent fit for her. She mostly thrives in bookish and intellectually stimulating environments and appreciates the opportunity to engage in quiet and meaningful leadership roles. While the student body is highly academic, there is a noticeable Southern prep culture. We are from Alabama, and she wanted a bit of this culture but not so much that she wanted to enroll at schools closer to home. Greek life appears active but not prominent, but I think legacy wealth and tradition are deeply ingrained in the school’s ethos. Especially tradition, which we love. But I think the campus can feel a bit traditional and even insular for those seeking artistic eccentricity or radical inclusivity. However, if your daughter finds comfort and inspiration in historic and scholarly settings, W&M might be a great choice for her. The housing and dining facilities have undergone significant renovations and are now truly beautiful, although one section is still under construction. This minor disruption is worth noting. While W&M may not be traditionally sporty in a rah-rah sense, it does exude a quiet collegiate polish and modest formality that could align or not align with your daughter’s ā€œartsy/creativeā€ preferences. This depends on how she responds to the structure and tradition that are woven into the intellectual life of the school.

Now, let’s move on to Santa Clara University.
Gorgeous campus, mild weather, and kind students—what more could you ask for? But here’s the catch: Santa Clara University leans sporty and affluent. It’s in Silicon Valley, and many students come from wealthy West Coast families. The business school is strong, and while the arts are present, they don’t dominate the campus. As a Jesuit institution, the ethos is rooted in ethics, service, and reflection, but socially, it can feel more mainstream than quirky. If your daughter loved the visit, it’s worth noting that the vibe matters, and her instincts are important, but I’d caution that SCU may not challenge her intellectually or creatively as much as she hopes—unless she carves out a unique identity in the Honors Program.

Now, let’s talk about St. Olaf College. This might be the school that’s quietly perfect for her. It’s not flashy, but it packs a punch in science, music, and the arts. The campus is filled with earnest, kind, and thoughtful students—many of whom are deeply involved in both rigorous academics and vibrant extracurriculars. The physics program is strong, and the theater scene is rich and serious. Plus, there’s very little Greek life, and a strong Scandinavian heritage of egalitarianism and introspection. The weather can be a downside (no California sunshine here!), and the social life can be a bit wholesome and tame—but she’d likely find her tribe quickly. If she doesn’t crave constant urban energy and can embrace a cozy, collaborative setting, St. Olaf could be an unexpected gem. And here’s the best part: it’s also the most budget-friendly, which gives her more freedom to cover the costs of medical school later.

Bryn Mawr, an intellectual haven known for its quirky and feminist spirit, might be the perfect fit for her. While it lacks Greek life, it boasts a thriving theater and arts scene, and the Tri-Co (with Haverford and Swarthmore) offers a comprehensive social and academic experience. Pre-med advising is top-notch, and she’ll find a cohort of driven and unconventional women who balance rigor with rebellion. The beautiful dorms and cherished traditions like Lantern Night and May Day foster a sense of intimacy and belonging. However, if she craves a mixed-gender campus or a more diverse social scene, Bryn Mawr might feel a bit confined, despite the co-ed nature of its neighboring sister school, Haverford.

On the other hand, UNC-Chapel Hill (Out-of-State) offers a grand and comprehensive experience. While the name may be intimidating, it encompasses lectures, bureaucracy, and housing. Here, being in the Honors program holds significant importance, and she’ll find brilliance in physics and pre-med. However, she might feel like a mere number in the vast student body. If she values a smaller, intimate, and interdisciplinary atmosphere, she might find it challenging to thrive here, even with the school’s reputation. While the arts exist, she’ll need to actively seek out her community.

Ultimately, my advice is to revisit the emotional memories of her visits. If St. Olaf resonated with her, if she connected with the students, programs, and environment, trust her gut feeling. Prestige is real, but so is the potential for personal growth and fulfillment. She’ll face challenges in physics anywhere, but what truly matters in the long run is the quality of her faculty relationships, the comfort of her campus life, and the people who bring joy and laughter into her life.

Regardless of her choice, she’s got herself in a great position. I hope she trusts her gut feelings as much as the data. Best of luck to her and you! I know how you feel, it’s great to finally make a decision and move forward.

3 Likes

My OOS daughter (also premed) developed close friendships with her profs and still keeps in touch with them. Her profs invited students over for dinner, she traveled with one during summer research, tutored their kids, and was invited to speak at an interdisciplinary conference by another. As a biology major she participated in public health research on campus. She had a wonderful experience and it was not unique to her.

But….UNC is a large school and it might not be the right fit for this student. It seems she prefers a smaller school. Congrats on so many great options!!!

3 Likes

Congratulations on your daughter’s wonderful options. As a Haverford grad who took half of her classes at Bryn Mawr, I would say that your daughter should know if Bryn Mawr’s a fit if she visits. I have never visited St. Olaf, but since it’s a CC favorite, I’ve learned a lot about it. It sounds lovely, but if your daughter wants a diverse environment with a good number of international students in easy reach of a major city and a moderate climate, Bryn Mawr is the better option. I have a hunch that artsy at Bryn Mawr is generally edgier than what artsy is at St. Olaf. I get the sense that St. Olaf is a more wholesome environment for lack of a better word. Bryn Mawr is hardly a den of iniquity, LOL, but given the greater diversity of all kinds and lack of religious affiliation, there is probably a greater mix of styles and lifestyles.

Also, Bryn Mawr has a long-established and respected Post-Bac program so they should have good pre-med advising. That being said, post-bacs are in the same classes as BMC and Haverford students, so she might want to find out if that impacts the intensity of pre-med classes from current students.

1 Like

I don’t disagree with your relative assessments of Bryn Mawr and St Olaf, but I do want to note that the Twin Cities are a diverse, vibrant, globally-connected metropolis, and only about 45 minutes away from St Olaf (which to some people would actually count as comfortable commuting distance).

But of course Philly also fits that description, and it is an even quicker train ride from Bryn Mawr, and I think it is fair to say the weather during the school term would count as more moderate.

I just wanted to note in the greater scheme of things, compared to most prominent LACs, I think St Olaf is actually a very good choice for people interested in easy access to a major metropolis. It just happens that Bryn Mawr is on the relatively short list of even better LACs by that measure.

3 Likes

Is there public transportation to the Twin Cities from St. Olaf? Having the train a short walk from campus is a great asset if you don’t have a car.

2 Likes

Yes. Again, not nearly as convenient as the train from Bryn Mawr to Philly, but there is a bus service that has stops at a variety of key locations:

It has a stop at St Olaf, and picks up there either 9:15 am, 12:15 pm, or 3:00 pm. M-Th, it then takes you to Mall of America or the airport (and you can then connect to more public transportation from there). F-Su, it also stops in Dinkytown, which is right next to the University of Minnesota. Those three buses all then return to St Olaf, and there is also an additional night bus F-Su that picks up at 9:00 in Dinkytown, 9:30 Mall of America.

Then I believe during the beginnings and endings of terms, they also run more shuttles to and from the airport.

I will say from what I heard at Carleton, a lot of people end up driving instead. Although first years can’t have their own cars on campus at either college (as I understand it), upper class friends might have cars, and student organizations can use college vehicles. But still, you might do a mall trip, day trip on the weekend, or so on by shuttle.

4 Likes

Our DD is a SCU grad. She felt challenged (bioengineering and biology major), and played in the orchestra all four years she was there. It was not even the same quality as her HS precollege orchestra, but she loved doing it, and also played in some civic orchestras.

This! She really needs to own this decision, and feel comfortable with her choice.

She can take the required courses for medical school admissions at any of these colleges. Where will she be happiest to be. Happy students do better than unhappy ones…and she will need to be at the top of her game if she eventually applies to medical school.

3 Likes

That one comment reads an awful lot like ChatGPT.

Hey, I’m not a bot. I’ve been told that repeatedly since the advent of ChatGPT. Way back when people would simply suggest that I write a book or a blog. However, now they label me as ChatGPT. This is wild, lol!

I’m a therapist, researcher, and grant writer. When I write or support clients, or do anything on social media I pour a great deal of energy and thought into the process. I genuinely love my work and want to be sure I don’t cause harm. My writing style is similar to my therapy style, it is highly nuanced and designed to spark meaningful conversations, just like this one. I included intangible elements; subtle, non-quantifiable factors that shape our experiences, environments, and decisions. These are the things we feel more than we can measure, and they often surface in therapy.

As a therapist and researcher, I strive to remain an objective and nonjudgmental stance, which helps to conduct thorough assessments. That balanced approach informs the tone and structure of my writing. Yet as a grant writer, I understand the importance of persuasion. In this piece, I intentionally blended all three voices to both invite dialogue and end with a thought that resonates with most.

Ultimately, the decision about which school or university is best for a child belongs to the child. While families play an essential role in supporting and guiding that process, it’s important to remember that aside from financial considerations, the final choice should reflect the student’s values, not ours. That’s part of honoring their voice, autonomy, and growth.

I am a licensed therapist, and I embody that spirit in almost everything I do.

2 Likes

Absolutely! My list included intangible, non-quantifiable factors that influence an experience, environment, or decision, things you feel rather than measure. I lack concrete evidence to support my claims, and your perspective is more valid because I haven’t personally experienced it, and it’s inherently unmeasurable.

Found Sam Altman’s burner account :wink:

Small update:

Likely removing Bryn Mawr from contention based on feedback from a Bryn Mawr friend of D25 who said the musical theatre options are very barebones - only student directed and no support/budget. Bummer, as it seemed otherwise like a great option.

We are likely wedging in a campus visit to UNC (not cheap or easy as it is a cross-country trip, and basically every day between now and May 1 is busy with something at school). It is the one that she still feels like she ā€œshouldā€ go to, and I am hoping a visit will help her decide that she either loves it, or that she can let it go without regret.

5 Likes

Has she visited any other larger schools?