I am very interested in Williams College and am contemplating doing ED there. However, I wanted to know what universities are reputationally equivalent Williams. Is is equal to schools like Dartmouth, Northwestern, Penn, and Duke or is it more equal to Cornell, Wash U, Vanderbilt, and Georgetown?
Williams is academically equal with all those. Just different environments.
Welcome to College Confidential, @nikom814.
There is really no way to answer your answer, since all of the colleges you named are “reputationally” outstanding among grad schools, employers, other colleges, and ranking magazines. (Some rankings, like Forbes, combine small liberal arts colleges and universities into one list, if you want to look at that.)
Different posters could spend hours arguing over which is stronger among the many you named, and whether ones you considered second tier are stronger than ones you considered first tier. Which all means, such tiny differences in prestige are irrelevant.
Just pick the college for ED that you feel is the best fit for you. Which has the majors you are considering, is in a geographic area you like, is the size you like, has the school culture you like?
If prestige is super important— if you want everyone you meet, including your gas station attendant and waitress, to know the name of your college— Williams is a poor choice. That said, for some people (including my family!), Williams is the perfect match and the best learning environment imaginable.
I encourage you to focus on which college is best for YOU, and to look also at colleges that are easier to get into than these, all of which are very, very selective. You will need a range of colleges to apply to, including safety schools. Figure out which qualities appeal to you in a college (other than mere reputation), and you will be able to find several colleges at a range of selectivity levels that will be good matches for you, and thus ensure you will end up somewhere you will have a great four years.
If you have any specific questions about the college experience at Williams, I will be glad to share my perspective, as will other posters.
Good luck in your college search!
@nikom814: It is somewhat difficult to compare an LAC to a university. Among the 8 universities which you listed, I think that one who would apply to Williams College might also find Dartmouth College attractive.
The former president of Williams College, Morty Shapiro, now heads Northwestern University. Northwestern University is divided up into 5 different colleges & a number of graduate schools including world class MBA, law & medical schools. Northwestern has two campuses in the Chicago area. Both are gorgeous. The undergraduate school is located in the upscale suburb of Evanston as are many graduate programs, but the law & medical schools are near the Magnificent Mile of Chicago’s North Shore on Lake Michigan. Both campuses are on Lake Michigan. Both have incredible views.
For one applying to Williams College, an indication that the applicant is seeking a close knit nurturing experience, SESP (the School of Education & Social Policy) would be an equivalent experience. SESP students may also take up two additional majors in the Weinberg School of Arts & Sciences. But Northwestern might be a bit more of an intense environment.
Penn has a preprofessional vibe. The Wharton School is arguably the best business school in the world. Urban location in Philadelphia which may not appeal to some. Everything at Penn is great & job placement is outstanding.
Duke University is outstanding. Attracts a lot of students from very wealthy & influential families.
Georgetown students, I suspect, are different from the typical Williams College student simply on the basis of location. Williamstown is bucolic, relaxed New England; Georgetown is urban, high powered & formal. Georgetown’s School of Foreign Service is beyond outstanding.
Vanderbilt students love their school. A Williams College student would certainly do well here.
WashUStL has a lot of wealthy students. Hardworking & brilliant.
Cornell University strikes me as an incredibly hardworking student body made up of diverse schools including a School of Agriculture.
But your question is about “reputation” & prestige. To a certain extent, prestige is regional. Therefore, Williams College might have a similar reputation to Dartmouth College.
I think that a typical Williams College student would do well at Dartmouth College, Northwestern University, Duke, Penn, Vanderbilt, Georgetown, WashUStL & Cornell University IF that Williams student wanted to be at any of these schools. And it is not clear to me that a typical Williams College student would want to be at any of these schools other than Dartmouth College.
I think Middlebury and Amherst are more like Williams than most of the school on your list (except Dartmouth).
@nikom814 : With respect to reputation, Williams College is the biggest fish in a small pond (LACS).
The eight universities that you listed swim in a different body of water & compete with Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford & Columbia. The obvious difference, of course, are the graduate schools present at all National Universities in addition to massive research budgets & activity.
If you rank the eight universities & Williams College by endowment per student, then Williams College wins with Dartmouth College coming in at second place. But not if ranking these 9 schools by overall endowment, in which case Northwestern University & the University of Pennsylvania dominate.
P.S. OP: I just read your other thread & realized that you are a sophomore in high school. So I’ll share my off-the-cuff very unscientific opinion which may, or may not, be helpful to you.
All 9 schools are superior & outstanding academically. For the most relaxed & fun college experience, I think that Williams College & Dartmouth College lead the pack.
If you are certain of your intended major arear of study or targeted profession, then I think that you should look closely at Penn, Northwestern, Cornell, Duke, Georgetown, & WashUStL,
Thank you all so much for your thoughtful responses! @Publisher @Ironmom1 @TheGreyKing @CottonTales
Williams has a very different feel than all the schools you mentioned. Are you picking a school based on ranking?
Only Dartmouth has a similar “feel”
I am not choosing solely based on ranking but using it as a factor. I have never seen Williams compared to top universities and wanted to know where it would place.
^Check out the Forbes college rankings list. It gives one list for all colleges, big universities and small liberal arts colleges alike.
Frankly, without more information about your interests and long-range goals, I’d have to say most of the schools on your list are a step down from Williams. But. I guess you know that or Williams wouldn’t be your first choice.
The purpose of the below thread was to broaden familiarity with respect to a variety of highly selective colleges by combining universities and LACs in one analysis:
Since most of the schools you mentioned appear, including Williams, this could provide some idea as to how they might compare, at least by measurable aspects.
Yield is one way of quantifying reputation - among high school seniors, at least. Yields excluding ED applicants:
45.9% Penn
42.8% Cornell
42.7% Dartmouth
36.8% Duke
36.2% Northwestern
29.2% Williams
29.1% Vanderbilt
27.0% Wash U
The RD yield for Wash U is an estimate based on the news report that Wash U received 1850 ED applications last year and the info from its Class of 2022 profile (42% ED admit rate, 13% RD admit rate, 31320 total applicants, 1812 enrolled). By my math, that means approximately 777 ED admits, 3831 RD admits, and 1035 RD enrollees.
Georgetown does not have ED, so an apples-to-apple comparison is not possible.
In terms the listed schools’ respective emphases on undergraduate education, this would definitely be the case.
@nikom814 Reputation is relative to the basis of comparison. On quality of education I would rate Williams as equal to (if not better than) any of the schools you’ve listed. Of course, this is a general statement, and some areas of study may be stronger than others.
If you’re equating reputation with name recognition, and name recognition with prestige, then Williams’ standing may vary depending on who is doing the recognizing. Williams academic reputation is well known and highly regarded among graduate and professional school admissions.
Its regard among employers is variable. Companies in the northeast will know and respect Williams, but in other parts of the country, it’s less widely known. Same with specific career paths. Williams has an excellent reputation among Wall Street and consulting firms, art museums and many government agencies and NGOs. In other areas, it may be less well known.
I’m not sure what “reputationally equivalent” means.
The average grocery store clerk in my mid-Atlantic community probably has heard of Duke or Cornell, but not Williams. The average university president probably thinks highly of all three. All these schools get high magazine rankings. According to many college performance metrics, they all tend to score among the top 50 or so (out of thousands of US colleges).
If you’re looking for other colleges that are most similar to Williams, then you might want to consider other LACs (such as Amherst, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Pomona, Wesleyan, or Kenyon). In my opinion, most LACs in the US News top 40 or so are rather similar in quality and atmosphere. Pretty much all of them offer consistently small classes and total focus on undergrads. They all employ many professors with PhDs from top graduate schools (virtually all of whom actually teach undergrads). They have good facilities and decent need-based aid. They tend to have relatively understated Greek and intercollegiate sports scenes; they generally aren’t considered “party” schools; they tend to attract many good students who are serious about academics. They may be a little easier for international students to get in (with decent aid offers) than some research universities of similar rank (just because they aren’t as well known among other internationals.)
Possible drawbacks:
LACs are (almost by definition) small, and generally don’t offer as many programs/majors or the same breadth/depth of courses you’d find at a major research university. This could be a drawback for example if you arrive with very advanced standing in a field like math (and want to continue pursuing it at a high level), or if you want to study a less commonly taught foreign language. Most LACs are private and have very high sticker prices (although there are a few very good public LACs like St. Mary’s College of MD and New College of FL). Many are located in small ~rural towns where there may not be the same level of entertainment/shopping/cultural opportunities you’d find closer to big cities.
@merc81: Your comment is just speculation in post #13 above. Of course schools comprised entirely, or almost entirely = over 90%, of undergraduates is going to have an undergraduate focus. Otherwise there would be no point to their existence.
But this does not mean that undergraduates at Penn, Cornell, Dartmouth, Northwestern, Georgetown, WashUStL, Duke & Vanderbilt do not receive equal or superior undergraduate educations
Why then is Williams College’s yield of accepted students so low when compared to Penn, Cornell, Dartmouth, Duke & Northwestern ? (See @warblersrule post #12 above)
Especially when Williams College has the lowest net cost among all LACs & a lower net cost than all of the other National Universities listed above ?
Let’s do the math: by and large a college with Williams’ low net cost isn’t going to lose many students to a college with higher net costs (i.e., Penn, Cornell, Northwester or WashU), but to one of equal or lower net cost. What places might these be? Try HYP, Stanford and MIT.
`Well, we will be paying full freight so, from that vantage point, the reason kids may not choose Williams is the isolation and the fact that it’s not easy to get there if you live in another part of the country. If our S was lucky enough to get into Williams, he would be thrilled. But, depending on where else he gets in, he would start considering all kinds of factors including location.
There’s no way I would choose Penn or Northwestern over Williams unless I really, really, really needed to go to a business school.