Hello everyone, I am a Community College transfer student who has been lucky enough to be admitted to these two amazing institutions of higher learning and I am trying to choose the right one for me. This has been really hard as the institutions offer so much but in very different ways.
For context, I am a non-traditional student wishing to study philosophy and public policy–political economy at Williams–with the hope to prepare myself for either a Ph.D. or J.D. program. I will list out my pros and cons for each school and feel free to comment! Thanks in advance.
Williams College
Pros
Has been my dream school throughout this process, I am in love with the idea of an academic community that is secluded from the rest of the world
I am extremely attracted to the unique academic offerings at Williams: the tutorial program, winter study, WEPO, and other extracurricular academic opportunities
I thought the area was really quaint
More resources dedicated to transfer students with a more tight-knit transfer community, I would have the ability to give up credit as well to study there longer allowing me to study abroad/away which is something I’ve wanted to do
No cost, I will end up paying close to nothing to attend which allows me to take the time/energy I need to focus on my studies without worrying about work or cost dictating what I do post-grad
Unique post-graduate fellowships only open to Williams Students
Cons
Extremely small school, I am worried that if I don’t feel like I fit in I will have limited social recourse to find new friends
In a similar vein, I found that the extracurricular opportunities were less robust than at Stanford, with clubs being less fleshed out/attended
Does not have the same name recognition. As someone who is non-traditional, I am worried that I need all the edge I can get because I am late to the game with no real reason behind that (i.e. military service)
No ability to take graduate courses, not all academic departments are equal in quality, whereas at Stanford every department is amazing
Cold
Stanford
Pros
One of the best universities in the world with amazing resources, such as who comes to Stanford as a guest speaker and alumni connections in every industry
Amazing philosophy department, the ability to take classes with some of these professors is a dream
More academic pedigree, my friends have advised me that if I wish to go into a Ph.D. program, almost nothing rivals a Stanford degree
Quarter system which allows me to take more classes
Wide breadth of academic programs, and with the quarter system I could take more classes that interest me like their Symbolic Systems courses
Larger school with more social variety; I won’t feel “locked-in” to my social group
Warm for most of the year which will help as I have some SAD
Cons
Costs about 30k more than Williams so will not be able to study abroad or take a third year, will have to work during the school year to make ends meet
No big fish in a small pond scenario, I will have to work a lot harder to distinguish myself and gain leadership positions
May not get the same kind of personalized academic support that Williams offers
Will be worried about my ability to compete academically with others at Stanford as the academic rigor seems a lot higher there than at Williams
Honestly I have a lot of feelings of imposter syndrome just at my acceptance so am worried about that as well
Programs are more math-heavy at Stanford and I am honestly very behind when it comes to math
I know this is a champagne problem but would like any input as I have to decide in the coming days. I really am not leaning one way more than the other which makes this a lot harder.
I’m not going to give advice or a recommendation, just ask a couple of questions, and make some comments on your pros/cons for you to consider:
PhD - philosophy is a very specific path: think hard about how likely it is to be yours. Law, Public Policy and Political Economy are more fluid, and neither Stanford nor Williams will give you a more of a ‘leg up’ in admissions to grad schools in those fields. Philosophy is famously particular about the undergrad school you go to, so if that is a serious runner do some more homework on that
2)$30K more total, or $30K more per year?
Academic rigor won’t be higher at Stanford than Williams, but the pace will be faster, b/c of the quarter system. Does that suit you?
Re: imposter syndrome. Be a cat. Cat’s never have imposter syndrome.
[quote=“Hopingtogotocollege9, post:1, topic:3613149”] at Stanford every department is amazing
[/quote]
Factually incorrect (for every single university btw)
I don’t think Stanford has the “better” academic pedigree, at all. Name recognition by the person on the street, sure. But that’s totally irrelevant. Definitely better weather, though!
If the cost difference holds, I’d be leaning towards Williams. Especially being nontraditional, I would want more supports/less ability to fall through the cracks. The experience of a LAC is very different than a research university.
Both schools are the best in kind, so it really comes down to fit, and the extra money.
The resources a super wealthy LAC has (summer stipends, personal connections etc) will boggle your mind.
I happen to know a recent Williams philosophy major graduate, now getting his masters at Yale, with a view to going into academia – Williams will not hinder you, if that’s what you want to do.
Full disclosure, I went to Stanford for graduate school, loved my time there, and think it’s a fantastic school. My vote is still Williams
To the extent that academic expectations can be estimated by standardized scoring profiles, consider that Williams may exceed Stanford by a slight margin. These figures represent the last “full testing year”:
Middle Ranges (from Common Data Sets), Students Entering Fall 2020
What I meant by this is that the college culture may feel more competitive and therefore more “rigorous” at Stanford vs Williams which may feel more collaborative. I understand that the caliber of students is largely the same. Sorry for the confusion.
In most of these Big School vs. Small School match-ups, the money issue usually cinches it. Personally, I would find all of those super-curated, designed-for-television, mega-campuses a little too much like waking up in Disneyland every morning. Give me an old-fashioned rustic college every time. YMMV.
Still confused on the $30k difference. If Stanford is an interest you might try to understand why ? Do you own a business, have divorced folks or otherwise ?
A few comments:
–Congratulations on two amazing options.
–IMO the two schools are academic peers. Both are absolutely outstanding and can get you anywhere you want to go in life.
–Consider if you prefer the quarter system or the semester system.
–Financially Williams is the obvious winner. Graduating debt free is a real gift and will give you a ton of flexibility during college and to do whatever you want after graduation.
–Not sure what you mean by being a non-traditional student – if you are way older than a typical undergrad it may be more difficult to fit in at Williams. This might be the only reason I’d consider paying for Stanford.
–Yes, both schools will be academically challenging BUT they accepted you for a reason. You belong.
Williams for free, not just for the same amount of time but for extra time if you want it, including study abroad… that’s pretty compelling. Stanford and its peers will be there for grad school (and Williams can absolutely get you there), whereas this is the only chance you’ll ever have at an experience like Williams.
IMHO, at cost parity this would be a tough decision. But Williams is essentially offering you an additional six figures worth of funding (if you consider what the extra time would cost at Stanford), just for choosing an experience that is different but not inferior.
I’d go with what your gut has said all along, further validated by the big cost difference.
You have two wonderful choices. I think you need to think very carefully about the fit at each school…and the affordability as well.
When you say you are “non-traditional”….how old are you (you don’t have to tell us…but it’s something to think about). Williams is small and just about all the students there will be between ages 18-24. There won’t be many older students attending…and there are not graduate programs where older students are enrolled.
Stanford will have a huge range of age groups on the campus. This might be something you want to consider.
Also…weather. The weather at Stanford is pretty pleasant year round. Winter at Williams is winter! Do,you have a preference.
The academics at both schools are excellent…but I think you need to look beyond the academics.
Don’t overestimate the earning potential of a Philosophy PhD. Also, I don’t have the numbers (that is @Data10 ’s job), but if you remove the CS and Engineering undergraduates from Stanford, the earning potential for undergraduates is likely equal.
