Williams ED vs MIT

College Search & Lists
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Hello,

As of now, I have applied to MIT, RIT, and Northeastern Early Action. I have been planning on applying to Williams Early Decision by the November 15th deadline.

For me, the two schools are about equal. I want to major in physics, and value research opportunities and the alumni network / connections I will make in undergrad. I definitely plan on pursuing a Masters, and possibly a PHD. I have good grades, ECs, and I’m currently researching quantum devices at my state university as a first author with a professor, the research and my stays funded by their physics department. While I know these schools are very competitive and reaches, I believe that I have a solid shot.

One of the things I’ve come to realize is that while I do really care about academics / opportunities, one of the greater and less quantifiable purposes of my undergraduate education is for me to grow as a person and communicator, and learn how to navigate the world and people I don’t agree with. If all I cared about was the best option to advance my career and make money, I would just attend my state university where there is already a spot for me in the lab, and where I will most likely get a full ride. But my want for these other aspects is what has drawn me to a place like Williams; the more balanced student population and liberal arts education that would challenge me to think critically beyond my area of specialization. I’m sure none of that would be lacking at MIT either.

When doing my research though, one thing became apparent: the connections with professors matter a lot. Even if on paper MIT has more opportunities, the fact that it is at the end of the day a graduate-focused institution, larger, and filled with very bright and competitive people may mean that I actually find more opportunity for things like research at Williams, where they do tutorials and are generally more closely knit, especially between students and professors. Also, Williams is an undergraduate college, so I wouldn’t have to “compete” with grad students for research.

At the end of the day, I’d be elated to go to either school and they’re about equal for me. I don’t have too much of a preference for city vs rural; I live in a town of similar size to Williamstown, and I’ve studied abroad in a city, and found that I can adapt to the city life quite well, but I also am very socially engaged and always busy here in my hometown. I just wonder how I’d feel on the off chance of getting accepted into both, and seeing MIT slip away; at the end of the day, nothing really compares to the group of students they gather and the MIT brand. However, I know I would regret not applying ED to Williams more if I got rejected from both, which is very likely.

Please let me know your thoughts on this matter. I know I’d be happy and wouldn’t look back either way, and that for undergrad either place would be amazing, but I’m also apprehensive of potentially shutting the door of MIT, as the initial decision to apply ED was with the assumption that this is really a choice between going to one of my top choices or not.

Sorry for the long-winded post; this is my first forum post and if you couldn’t tell, I haven’t quite sorted out everything in my own mind.

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Reading your post, it seems to me that you like Williams more, but feel like you “shouldn’t” close the door on MIT due to its reputation.

If I’m reading you accurately about that (and I don’t know that I am) I think it is 100% valid to prefer and choose Williams over MIT. They do have different vibes, and preferring the vibe at Williams is valid.

Besides, you always have MIT as a grad school option.

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I posted the below for another OP with an interest in physics. Since the post includes information on Williams, and also since you still may be forming your greater college list, you may be interested in reading through the suggestions:

As an opinion on the more subjective aspects of your inquiry here, you seem more aligned with the general atmosphere of Williams than that of MIT.

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Thank you. Yes, I think you pretty much summed it up. I am hesitant on feeling like I would “miss out” on MIT, but also I view it in the light of trying to get the best undergrad experience I can, and saving one of the best graduate experiences (MIT) for later.

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Thank you! I was aware of the recognition that the Williams physics department got, but Bowdoin was a surprise. I actually live about 20 minutes away and have legacy there, so that’s an interesting option for regular decision.

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My S24 is a likely physics major at Williams. He is working very, very hard. The class for students that had a 4 or 5 on AP physics C is small and very challenging, as are the upper level math classes. The professors know each student by name, there are outstanding TAs and the cohort is working together rather than thinking of each other as competition. Would be happy to respond to PMs especially if there are specific questions.

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This does not accurately reflect the experience of my son- or the several dozen or so adults I know, have worked with, studied with, managed, etc. who have Bachelor’s degrees from MIT.

First- research is almost a never-ending resource. UROPS (MIT speak for Undergraduate Research Opportunities) exist in every single academic department and major, every interdisciplinary center, every lab and every collaboration (including the collaborations with other universities, hospitals, government research centers, corporate R&D groups). Many spots go begging- there are typically more opportunities than there are undergrads. You aren’t competing with grad students. They are on their own paths, they already have an established set of interests. You are coming in fresh and it’s common to move around a bit until you find what you really want to do. And most UROP’s allow you to choose- cash or credit. Which means that you will either get paid for your work, OR you will get academic credit. But in both instances, you will be an official member of the research team, not just some freshman who shows up now and again when he or she has time. You’ll have deliverables, mentoring, deadlines. Like a real researcher.

Second- professors at MIT teach. My son can still describe with enormous affection the day his professor walked in to the freshman, intro class to a standing ovation. The news had broken a few hours earlier that he had won a Nobel prize and the students were overjoyed, and had assumed that he’d “call in sick” or send a grad student to cover. But no. And when a group broke off for the dining hall after the lecture, the professor tagged along and said “Any room at your table?” and of course the entire dining hall was cheering and applauding as they all took their trays and sat down.

My kid never had a TA teach. TA’s run review sessions, do the “help desk” thing where you show up if you can’t make sense of a problem set, help structure a proposal after the student and professor have figured out a topic or a theory or a hypothesis. Professors teach.

Tight knit is a function of the student, not the institution. I’m sure there are students at both places who successfully avoid having close relationships with faculty. But if you want it- it’s there for you. Most professors at MIT could be earning several multiples of their salary in industry (certainly in any of the engineering disciplines, Sloan school, math, CS). They are at a university because that’s what they want to do.

If you are in love with Williams (and there is a LOT to love) then give your shot and don’t look back. But don’t assume that your MIT experience will be a dog eat dog slog of you competing with a doctoral student for a slot in lab. That’s not how it works.

Good luck!

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In case my post needs clarification, Bowdoin has yet to produce an Apker recipient.* Nonetheless, I’d recommend it for physics on more general grounds.

*As far as I know, no school in Maine has. This simply may reflect the rarity of Apker recognition when considering nationally.

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I see, thank you for clearing up my assumptions. With those out of the way, my decision becomes more difficult haha.

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Completely agree with this. Everyone who wants to do research at MIT has ample opportunities to do so.

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Great, thank you.

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Hm I’m sorry, but it appears I can’t send a PM, perhaps because I just recently joined. If you don’t mind, I have some questions but do you think you could initiate the PM?

Edit: Never mind, it was user error.

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For perspective, consider that every choice of a college closes the door on alternative college choices.

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And while you are talking LAC and Physics don’t forget that Wesleyan has had multiple Apker winners. Another great option maybe for RD.

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Thanks, I’ll definitely check that out as well.

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If you might like to read brief, subjective comments on Williams in the context of comments on other liberal arts colleges, see this post: NESCAC Spoken Here: - #5 by merc81.

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Go where you feel comfortable. My S22 is a math major and didn’t even consider applying to MIT. He is very happy at his LAC.

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Congratulations on your research experience! Also I commend you on a very well-written and thoughtful post. You are asking yourself good questions.

They are both amazing schools. From what you have written, I think you would enjoy and thrive at either.

Rather than point you one way or the other, I wanted just to offer a few bits of info that might be worth reflecting on.

First, my understanding is the main component for the Williams ED admit rate bump is that recruited athletes and legacies are encouraged to apply that way. It’s possible you would still get some ED bump by applying, but likely much less than what the common data sets suggest if “unhooked.”

Second, I am of the opinion that ED makes the most sense when there is a clear preference for a school. It makes a bit less sense as a tool to bump the chances when there isn’t a clear preference. Some students change their views on what they want between Nov and May, as the extra time to research schools and explore interests can help clarify or alter what a student prioritizes.

Third, I think the Apker awards are an interesting data point, but bear in mind that most years only two students in the entire country win it, so the sample size of award winners is tiny. I would be wary of overweighting that particular metric.

Fourth, as you are interested in grad study, it’s probably worth looking through a physics PhD feeder list like the below. This reflects a vastly larger sample size than Apker winners. Moreover, it might give you ideas for additional schools to consider. As wonderful as MIT and Williams are, they are both reaches for everyone. As I’m sure you know, there are many amazing schools to study physics, and it would be prudent imo to continue investigating a wide range of them, just in case things don’t work out with your current top two choices. (Note each category listed has two tables, one for raw counts and one for rates that adjusts by college size.)

Good luck!

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Your post made it clear to me. You would regret not applying ED to Williams if you end up rejected at both. That seals it. ED to Williams.

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If you’re still forming a list, I’m a current physics major at Hamilton. Happy to answer questions.

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