Women would rather come across a bear than a man in the woods

[lvvcsf]

Or want her Pic a nic basket

[jym626]

[jym626]

Women have been assaulted on more than one trail in my area.

[Catcherinthetoast]

I was suspicious when my wife told me our neighbor had just called and asked me to simply “run some honey over”.

[Tigerwife92]

Thought of this thread, just checked my email and saw this it’s been hanging out by my house

[rphcfb]

This is a very tragic news. I am confident that it was not a bear that caused her death.

Missing Dartmouth College student found dead in Connecticut River, her bike...

[AustenNut]

That is, indeed, some very sad news. According to the article, she “reportedly admitted herself to the campus medical clinic prior to her disappearance because she was experiencing a mental health crisis,” and the police do not suspect foul play. Thus, I suspect that neither a bear nor a man was necessarily involved in this tragedy.

[hebegebe]

But note that in this situation she would have been better off running into a man rather than a bear. A man might have been able to save her.

[coolguy40]

I don’t have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun her Kidding…kidding.

[FallGirl]

Not finding that funny.

[Sweetgum]

Just saw this excellent article linked on Facebook. It’s written by a woman who bikes and camps solo in the wilderness and sometimes sees bears as well as men. She articulates what a lot of women have been saying about how most men are great but every so often…

A Woman Who Left Society to Live With Bears Weighs in on “Man or Bear”

[HotCanary]

That’s an amazing article! I used to work for the National Park Service, and I had a roommate who hiked the Pacific Crest Trail alone in the 70’s. She told a similar tale, about how she had to be on high alert around certain men. I loved THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM IS NOT A BEAR!

[Jolynne_Smyth]

What an incredibly insightful article, Sweetgum! And not bashing men - the author is not afraid of all men - just some. So nuanced.

And it’s infused with compassion too - the men who are angry and who deride (or make light) of women’s responses to the man/bear discussion likely do so because they are “sad when someone you want to be close to does not want to be close to you.”

[88jm19]

Thank you for sharing the article! It is the best one I’ve read on the topic of the man/bear question.

The discussion of patriarchy and its effect on both men and women is wonderful. I like the distinction made between strong and powerful. I hope every man who questioned or were offended by ‘women who would choose the bear’ would read the entire article.

[MaineLonghorn]

I’m in the Maine woods this weekend. I’m taking a long drive all around the area. I’m glad I’m in a car. I’m seeing a lot of men in the woods, no women. No bears, either. But it’s beautiful!

[oldmom4896]

[prezbucky]

@Jolynne_Smyth

Would a guy maybe like to receive unsolicited naked pix from a woman? Perhaps. But I definitely did not and couldn’t eye bleach those images.

The worst part - when I called my daughter to tell her she said. “Yeah my friends and I hate when they do that.”’ What? This is apparently what our daughters are dealing with regularly. Makes me mad

I wonder if any legal experts could chime in: could an unsolicited crotch pic be considered indecent exposure or even some level of sexual assault?

[Jolynne_Smyth]

Prezbucky - that was my first response (“this has to be illegal!”). But when did some quick research it seemed that - for the state I was in - it wasn’t.

And the advice from the guys in my life was consistently: “let it go; don’t give him more attention to escalate; etc…”

But isn’t that always the way? Be conciliatory (for our own safety…). grr

[shawbridge]

Post deleted because I had not done block quote correctly

[shawbridge]

@AustenNut

I’m going to make a few statements that I think (hope?) most will agree on, as I think that some of us are getting lost in the details.

• Most men are good guys.
• Most women think that most men are good guys.
• When in a populated area (i.e. there are others around), most women do not assume ill-intent of most men.
• Most women can be physically overpowered by most men.
• Most women try to remain aware of their surroundings because of their physical vulnerability.
• Maintaining situational awareness does not generally indicate high levels of anxiety.

Not so sure that point number 2 is correct. I think we are living in interesting and probably disturbing times.

As a male with tons of training in statistics and economics, it seems pretty straightforward to understand the overwhelming choice of bears. If there are two types of men (bad and not bad) and a woman encountering a male won’t know which type the male is, she should be wary of negative consequences that include death, rape and other behaviors that are harmful physically or psychologically. A group of males might (or might not) be worse than a single male. Black bears on the other hand are more likely to run away and less likely to be fatal (the same is probably less true of grizzlies).

EDIT: I realized the stats/econ reference was a little obscure but I used to teach a class on how to analyze (and make) decisions. In the problem posed, one needs to think about probability that the man is bad, which means an extremely costly or infinitely costly outcome. If the probability of an extremely bad outcome is higher with a man than a bear, than the choice is obvious.

One additional thing, which is slightly different than the nuances that Laura Killengbeck is describing. People and economists tend to think of traits (in the case bad man or not bad man) as immutable. But, in fact, the behaviors that reflect traits are much more situation/context-dependent. In Pakistan and some other Muslim countries, a much higher fraction of men would assault/rape a woman walking alone in the woods. The societal context is that a decent woman would not walk on her own and therefore she is asking for it/deserves it. There was a very good documentary on this called To Kill a Tiger, that follows the rape of a teenage girl in a village in India and the attitudes of the villagers is extraordinary. Similarly, I suspect that the probability of a college student sexually assaulting a women would increase if he joins a fraternity. It is not just what parents teach but also the social context that affects the probabiity that a man will engage in sexual assault.

In short, I am not in any way angry about the overwhelming vote of female TikTokers and CCers. It is pretty obvious.

What makes me less happy is a general denigration of men, especially among the younger generation. There are lots of examples, but let me give you one that happened this past week. ShawWife has a probably 22 yo female assistant who just graduated from a painfully progressive LAC – my son decided early on in his visit upon acceptance that he wanted to leave his visit early because “these are not my people.” Anyway, ShawWife, assistant and I were having lunch and we talked about a woman who was a friend of ShawWife’s and mine whose husband died of ALS. At the time, I told ShawWife that unlike the many 50 and 60 yo divorced or widowed women that we know who remain single, I told ShawWife that this friend would find a mate because, like ShawWife, she was warm, inviting, fun and just made people enjoy being with her. Said friend has always been very independent and determined professionally, and not someone who is the most nurturing caretaker, even when her was dying. The three of us saw her recently with a new partner who seemed very nice. I mentioned my prediction at lunch and ShawWife’s assistant said, “That just tells you about what men want in a women in her 50s to 60s.” I thought, interesting. I was merely stating that men want a partner who is a warm, inviting, fun person who people enjoy being around. But, the immediate interpretation was that whatever the problem, the fault was men and their expectations.