You can refuse to sell to someone in a protected class. You just can’t refuse to sell to them because they are in a protected class.
My daughter’s bestie owns a popular ice cream shop. She is going away next weekend, so they won’t be making custom cakes next weekend. For anyone. Even a member of a protected class. They will be turning away members of every protected class who come for a cake that weekend. But they won’t be turning them away because they’re members of a protected class. If they come back a week later, hopefully they will spend a lot of money.
"they don’t want their book in the hands of a gay customer…
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A gay wedding and a gay customer are not the same.
And I don’t recall a case of a wedding service provider refusing to sell, say, a cookie to a gay person."
I think if an author of a book refused to sell their book to gays - a gay person would have a case for discrimination against the author.
A bookstore is not required to stock every book in the universe.
The wedding cake maker cannot refuse to make a wedding cake because the couple is gay couple. It doesn’t matter that they happily will sell them a cookie or pastry.
@rhandco
Yes, If an artists paints portraits and sells them to the public, He is not allowed to refuse to paint a portrait because the customer is gay or a gay couple. If he paints couples, he has to paint all couples. So does a masseuse or masseur.
The reason is not separate but equal ,the reason is is because of the equal protection clause.
@zoosermom I am on my phone, typos abound… surely you knew I meant if you sell any cakes that weekend you have to also sell to those in the protected class.
No, he is not hurt. He may be offended, or grossed out, and those things may be unpleasant to him. But there is no legal right not to feel offended or grossed out. And there is no legal right to trample others’ rights to public accommodation just because he can’t handle the way they live their lives.
Surely not, and I think it’s clear that other posters are not getting that you understand the distinction because that’s what multiple posters are saying to you.
The analogy you are trying to make here is really to the bakery having to hang flyers for gay weddings or stock cakes that say “gay is the most awesome-est thing ever!”. Of course they don’t have to do that, just like bookstore owner doesn’t have to.
Selling cakes to people for gay weddings is something altogether different. It’s rather like the religious bookstore saying “no I will not monogram this bible to use in a gay wedding” when monogramming bibles is a service they offer.
Also I want to add if you do chose to violate the public accommodations act, its not like you are arrested and face criminal penalties, you face civil penalties… a fine. Its your choice whether to follow the law or not and risk the fine. Follow the law=no fine Not follow the law=fine
Yes, and I disagree with that, as well. Where the right of association and the specific situation of living is concerned, then I think there should be almost no governmental intervention.
However, expulsion or removal from university housing seems fair to me.
Association is not the same thing as accommodation. If you are ostensibly open to the public, you can’t pick and choose which members of the public you will serve. See: lunch counters circa 1960.
So therefore your graphic artist / printing store should have NO problem consulting with the white guy who wants you to create a huge banner promoting the KKK meeting on it, right? Because there’s no legal right not to feel offended or grossed out, just because you can’t handle the way this guy lives his life.
Likewise, our bookstore owner should be forced to carry Playboy (or the Bhagavad Gita, or the Book of Holocaust Denial) - he doesn’t have a right not to feel offended or grossed out, just because he can’t handle the way others live their lives.
“he paints couples, he has to paint all couples. So does a masseuse or masseur.”
I’m always asked if I prefer a make or a female (I don’t care). Could a masseur or masseuse specialize in just treating one gender? How about a weight loss or exercise spa?
SOrry, that was specifically in response to the other college student who refused to room with runswimyoga’s son. I don’t think he should face governmental consequences, but I would think consequences from the college would be fine.
@Pizzagirl I have to fly out, don’t have much time left today but
that is where different levels of scrutiny come in (legally) i.e. you can pick gender (intermediate level of scrutiny) but can’t chose race (strict scrutiny) off for today …ciao
[OH Momof 2: Selling cakes to people for gay weddings is something altogether different. It’s rather like the religious bookstore saying “no I will not monogram this bible to use in a gay wedding” when monogramming bibles is a service they offer"?quote]
Actually, no, the bookstore analogy about monogramming Bibles does not fly, because the term “gay marriage” is an oxymoron in several faiths, based upon long-established definition of marriage. Nowhere is there scriptural (or other documented) proscription against placing a monogram on a book.
Now if the store only monograms Bibles for weddings, you’ve got a leg to stand on.
"So therefore your graphic artist / printing store should have NO problem consulting with the white guy who wants you to create a huge banner promoting the KKK meeting on it, right? Because there’s no legal right not to feel offended or grossed out, just because you can’t handle the way this guy lives his life.
Likewise, our bookstore owner should be forced to carry Playboy (or the Bhagavad Gita, or the Book of Holocaust Denial) - he doesn’t have a right not to feel offended or grossed out, just because he can’t handle the way others live their lives."
I don’t believe the KKK is a protected class where a private business would have to do work for them. But we know in the public square they have the same rights as everyone else - thus they were permitted to march in Skokie even though the people of Skokie were appalled.
No store has to sell every product made that they specialize in. A bookstore owner can pick and choose which books they want to sell. There is no law requiring them to sell a specific book - but they must sell the product they carry to everyone.
If I sell Judaica I do not have to sell any other religion’s symbols. But I can’t decline to sell anything I have in my store to a non Jew.
If I sell women’s clothes, I am not required to sell burka’s.