You are right that the citizens of North Carolina are not a protected class. Neither are gays in most states and at the federal level.
Furthermore, by law people who have a concert or do anything else have the right to discriminate against any person they wish for any reason they wish. The only exception is thay may not discriminate against a protected class. So absent state law to the contrary, someone holding a concert could bar gays from attending. Or straights. Or obese people. Or anyone else, so long as the discrimination is not against a federally protected class.
Being a protected class is not the issue because being in a protected class does not infer the power or some right to make people do things against their conscience/religious beliefs, as that would violate equal protection under the law.
It is amazing that people think that being in a protected class means you magically get more rights than others. You do not.
You are stuck in one gear, as all concerts are not the same (they are state/city specific), such as all cakes are not the same. If all cakes were the same, there would be no thread. And if all concerts were the same, there would be no desire not to perform by the artists.
The artists have decided NOT to sell their product (i.e., concerts) to the people in those states by canceling their shows. Yet, these artists go to other states with their product. Therefore, the artists are choosing with their conscience/beliefs to whom to “sell” some concerts by not going to some states, while visiting others. No different than a baker deciding not to create a specific cake that is against his/her conscience, but then choosing to make a different specific cake that does not violate their beliefs.
And to prove the point that concerts are specific just like a wedding cake is specific is simple - the artists can refuse to go to concerts they do not want to perform at. The artists, however, cannot bar sale or purchase of their music in a particular state that is already for sale. Similarly, the baker can refuse to make a specific cake, but cannot bar purchase of a standard cake in his bakery.
In the Colorado case, that’s exactly what happened. The owner didn’t refuse to serve the gay couple other baked goods, just refused to bake their wedding cake. The court ruled that the baker was wrong.
There is no business that is required by law to operate in any state. However, if they choose to operate in a state they need to follow the public accomondation laws. If they decide they don’t want to do business in that state they have every right to close down. Springsteen closed down in North Carolina. He is not required to perform in any state he doesn’t want to. But, if he performs he has to obey the public accomondation laws. He cannot choose who can buy a ticket to his show and who cannot. What he can do legally is choose the size of his venue and thus the size of the audience he wants to perform for, how many nights he wants to perform, etc., but he cannot choose who is in the audience.
The cake baker has the same rights as Springsteen and can close down, too or simply not sell any wedding cakes at all.
And no, the baker cannot refuse to bake the wedding cake because the couple is gay if they sell wedding cakes to hetero couples. There have already been several cases and none of the bakers won. And SCOTUS declined to hear the photographer case from New Mexico and left standing the New Mexico Supreme Courts which ruled against the photographer.
Suppose there is an Islamic bookstore. Somebody comes in and says “Give me a dozen Korans, the more flammable the better, we are having a demonstration and I will burn them”. Can the owner of the store, a devout Moslem, refuse to sell the items?
Good hypothetical. Or, a Christian bookstore where another (self-proclaimed) Christian comes in and says - a dozen large crosses, the more flammable the better, we intend on burning them on some lawns tonight.
We’ve all seen Christian bookstores - they are perfectly legal.
But I believe - and correct me if I’m wrong - that all I have to do to become one is say that I am; there’s certainly no litmus test, I don’t have to prove anything to anybody, that just is the narrow scope of my business just like someone else might own a bookstore that focuses on travel or kids.
What prevents these bakeries from declaring themselves Christisn bakeries? It certainly doesn’t mean they have to “stamp” every item Christian - they can still sell whatever cookies - and of course they still have to sell the ready-made stuff to anyone who walks in the door - but would that give them a different leg to stand on in refusing to customize/“participate” in a gay wedding? Just curious.
The whole issue seems strange. So what they are saying is that if you have almost completed your gender reassignment, and now appear to be a man, you should still use the women’s room because you are still officially a man? Wouldn’t that alarm the users of the women’s room who think a man is in there?
Will there also be “toilet ladies” outside bathrooms checking ID for “questionable” looking people, like there used to be in Russia? This gives entirely new meaning to the expression “birther”.
“What prevents these bakeries from declaring themselves Christisn bakeries? It certainly doesn’t mean they have to “stamp” every item Christian - they can still sell whatever cookies - and of course they still have to sell the ready-made stuff to anyone who walks in the door - but would that give them a different leg to stand on in refusing to customize/“participate” in a gay wedding? Just curious.”
There is no such thing as a Christian cake or a Christian cookie. They can declare it all the want but it wouldn’t matter, just like a kosher butcher has to sell his product to everyone.
A Christian bookstore sells things which are Christian. They still have to sell to anyone who walks into their store.
They have to sell anything in their store or any service they offer to anyone.
As to “flammable” - they could refuse but they could be sued. It’s not illegal to burn books. Just like the bakers can be sued.
Now, in the real world the bible buyer or Koran buyers would likely not say anything.
The crazy minister in Florida didn’t get arrested because he burned Korans or was planning on burning them. He got arrested for illegally transporting fuel and a gun violation. That being said, he had a case that his arrest was unconstitutional. I have no idea what, if anything happened or if he pursued it.
@widgetmidget, yes. A transgendered man has to use the ladies room. In my opinion the law is doing exactly what they don’t want - men using ladies rooms and women using men’s room.
Correct. The law has actually made it easier for male sexual predators/peeping toms to go into the women’s restroom (by claiming they’re transgender), which is what those daft legislators claimed they were trying to prevent.
Also somewhat of a catch-22: TN doesn’t allow you to change your gender on your birth certificate. So regardless of whether or not you’ve done gender reassignment surgery, if you’re from TN and living in NC, legally you must always use the “wrong” bathroom.
My daughter will be a college freshman in the Fall, and she is a lesbian. When we were searching for colleges, LGBT-friendliness and the availability of on-campus LGBT resources and clubs figured prominently in our search. If the search showed that the school was not LGBT friendly, it was out. We also considered the politics and general climate of certain states and didn’t even bother checking in those states.
@Scylla, I had zoned out of this thread for a bit, because while the topic is interesting, it went pretty far into hypothetical baking land and IANAL
Our son, a trans male, luckily found a great fit for himself at Skidmore, which we believe to be very LGBT-friendly; we will know better when he actually attends. I’m glad that some of the states that have recently shown their true colors weren’t in the running, as I can only imagine the anxiety it would produce.
ETA: PS I did not mean in any way to diminish the intentions or thoughtfulness of the posters. The situation is far from academic for parents like Scylla, me, and others whose children might suffer tangible discrimination.
