<p>I appreciate the threads about students with less than straight A averages and fewer than 5 Ap classes, going to college and having a great time.
I know that there are lots of schools for motivated students- but still I am a little worried about it.</p>
<p>Last night I attended an event at my younger daughters previous school- ( the K-12 public school) I spoke to several parents who have kids who have graduated or are seniors- parents whose kids last time I spoke to them were doing well- looking at colleges, but when I asked three of them seperately last night what their kids were doing, two said that their kids were in community college or planning on it and one is taking a year off.</p>
<p>I admit I was a little nonplussed. The parents didn’t elaborate and I am sure that taken seperately they all had great reasons for taking it slower, but the coincidence of talking about three different students, who as far as I knew, were well prepared for a 4 year school, had won awards, had parents who were educators or other professionals and had been planning on the kids getting at least a BA, but now taking a slight detour- surprised me.</p>
Our district has a superintendents advisory committee that is making some great suggestions, then I heard that they are in favor of charter schools.
I always thought I was against charter schools, but now I am not so sure.</p>
<p>Just last night while shopping with my oldest D we ran into a gal who graduated with my oldest son. She did theatre with my D, so they started talking, and I was SO surprised to find out that she wasn’t in school! She had been one of the most highly ranked kids in h.s.! She told us that she would complete a program in massage therapy next year, and then see where that took her…I just thought…wow…</p>
<p>Could some of this be the results of burn-out? With so many good schools it’s hard to imagine that these kids didn’t get in anywhere.
Money also may be a consideration. A lot of middle income families don’t qualify for financial aid and understandably balk at the price of private colleges.</p>
<p>I think any of those things might be possible ASAP
Like I said I am sure individually the reasons made sense- ( although I didn’t ask cause I didn’t know if it was a sensitive subject and there wasn’t time anyway)- it was jsut the combination of all three of them that surprised me.
Its possible though that the kids didn’t have advisors that knew about many schools. If they didn’t realize that some schools were pretty difficult for admission or if they didn’t have a strong background, that might have made a difference especially if they needed aid.
Thats why I have been trying to work at D2s school to help seniors and juniors. Many kids are on a fast track to go to Stanford/Yale/Brown but the one who really need guidance are the ones who dont really think about it till junior year. I can’t do anything to fix their transcripts, but I hope that by pointing them towards schools for b/c students, they will find someplace to land.
Its not that I have anything against community colleges, but my impression has been that a campus can be more supportive for a student who needs it, than having to live off campus and commute</p>
<p>( which reminds me that D1s high school advisor suggested a community college to her in wa which has dorms- wonder what she thought when D started @ Reed)</p>
<p>About half of the kids of people I work with just went to the local JC to start out. Seems the allure of the 4 year away at school idea is fading in Seattle.</p>
<p>My mother teaches at a community college in Mississippi. In Mississippi most community colleges all have dorms, on campus activities, etc. She teaches a wide variety of students (much more so than my father who is also in higher ed but at a 4 year university). She has some who didn’t have the grades/ACT to get into a 4 year university, but she has others who opted to go there because they weren’t ready/able to leave home yet and this was a much more affordable option. She has some really strong students who went to tiny high schools. They attend because the student body is a little smaller and less intimidating and absolutely excel. They end up being president of a club, editor of the newspaper, or student body president. </p>
<p>She has a lot of older students who never went to college the first round and are returning in their 30s, 40s, or 50s. They’ve been away from school for a while and aren’t comfortable diving into a 4 year university yet. She also has students who are athletes, but weren’t quite good enough to get a scholarship at a 4 year school. However, they get a baseball or football scholarship to the community college and still get their education paid for while they also get to play. Many of these develop over those two years and end up transferring to play at a four year school after they finish. </p>
<p>Another group that populates her classes are those that began at Ole Miss or Mississippi State or Southern Miss, had a little too much fun, and their parents brought them back closer to home for a reality check because they didn’t want to shell out more money if all their kids were doing is wasting time. </p>
<p>I guess the moral of my story is that you will find a huge mix of students at a community college who are there for a wide variety of reasons. Many of these complete their associate’s degree, transfer to a 4 year school, and go on to successful careers. I think of a community college as being that more supportive, more assisted environment. The differences between my mother’s school and my father’s school are huge. My mother’s has about a third as many students and you are much more likely to get one on one attention there. My father’s is a typical large research university where the professors are being pressured to write grants, publish, and if they can fit it in, teach.</p>
<p>It is still more difficult to get into the Middlesex Community College Nursing Program or the one at South Puget Sound Community College than it is into Harvard. (and legacies or lacrosse won’t help) In the case of SPSCC, many of the rejects go to the four-year nursing programs, at PLU or UW.</p>
<p>I agree you can, but my experience has been that some students have difficulty commuting to school, commuting to their job and living on their own. The students in a community college are often high school students, and older adults who are going back to school in order to change careers or to be retrained after layoffs. Not always what high school graduates expect when they think of going to college.</p>
<p>Some community colleges have great vocational programs and some even have classes that will transfer to a 4 year school, but with the 4 year schools in washington, having limited space for transfer students, and the UW no longer guarenteeing instate AA recipients a place, even with a high GPA, fewer students are looking at CCs.
Over the last 2 years FTE enrollment is down 11%.
that seems to be a national decline connected with the economy-
I didn’t mean for this to be a slam on CCs obviously some students carefully consider their options, and a CC is the best choice- but a CC IMO at least the Seattle CCs are not able to give a B/C student the support they need to be prepared to transfer and do well in a 4 year school, unless they are also able to get support elsewhere.
My daughter got through her OChem class well and she enjoyed her microbio, with a very strong instructor. I have also had decent teachers but most of the instructors that I have had required less than I expected, which left me feeling not as prepared as I should have been for the next class. The very strongest teachers I had, only stayed at the CC for a short time, and went on to universities. ( where they didn’t have to work part time anymore I hope)</p>
<p>I go to a community college in Washington through the Running Start program and I love it:) I have amazing teachers, very small class sizes (Calculus is 12 students, Chemistry has 18), and new facilities (under 5 years old with computers all over the place). There’s always something happening on campus every night and it’s never hard to find free food. My calculus teacher has turned a class that I hated with a passion to a class that I love and wish I had more often. The way he explains concepts, the way he gets excited, the way he makes you feel when you get the right answer…it’s hard to explain, but it is my favorite class I’ve ever taken. The local college is 5 minutes away from home, offers a large variety of classes (math classes go from math foundations to differential equations!). I understand that my community college might not be as challenging as UW, but the small class sizes and supportive nurturing environment have been just what I needed to succeed at university. I’m sure that for the others, they have also benefited from a couple years at the community college and saved a bunch on tuition too!</p>
<p>mini many RN program at community colleges are not based on grades like the program Ms Mini entered, but are based on waitlist.</p>
<p>For those with the grades, it can be more desirable to enter the CC program, because it is much cheaper than a U, and they can enter right away. Otherwise the waitlists can be years long.</p>
<p>EK4: <em>all</em> (except one) of the students I’ve had who’ve chosen to go to community college chose to do so for financial reasons. I would assume that is the case with the students you’ve encountered. My nephew’s son–who could easily afford any loans and should be able to afford any of the UCs in-state–chose to go to CC for two years to 1) up his chances of going to the UC school of his choice (instead of the one he got into), and 2) reduce his expenses… He’ll be living at home and keeping the job he had in high school. I think this is happening more and more.</p>
<p>um actually with these kids I wouldn’t think it was financial- because their parents make more than we do- and our EFC is what an instate school would cost- although it is possible that the families chose not to spend the EFC- it can be a shocker that the state schools don’t have a wholelotta merit aid .</p>
<p>I think the pace of CC would actually be good for my younger D- but I also think she would do better at a school where she would stay on campus longer than just to attend class. The libraries can be fairly loud and hard to find a place to study and not really a lot of other activities to keep kid on campus even if they didn’t have jobs to go to.
But she may have gotten past the “I hate you” stage by the time she is out of high school- I sure hope so- it is exhausting & I am bearing the brunt of it.</p>
<p>EK4, I’m not saying that the kids couldn’t afford to go straight to four-year college—I’m saying those chose to do community college first because the costs are so much less. A full quarter load (16 credits) at BCC costs less than $1000/quarter; a full quarter load at the UW costs double that. When the UW itself recognizes the courses fully—i.e., the credits transfer straight–many people consider the extra costs of a four-year college to be insupportable.</p>
<p>There may be another factor to consider as well. Here in Maryland for example it can be very difficult for a student to get accepted at the University of Maryland. UM has become increasingly selective in recent years. It is much easier to get into UM as a transfer student than as a freshman applicant. Why? Because as a transfer student you have a proven track record of being able to handle college academics. Our local CC is excellent. It has a very highsuccess rate for its graduates who transfer to four year schoolsthan any other CC in the state. At a fraction of the cost of a four-year college a student can get many of their freshman and sophomore level course requirements out of the way. </p>
<p>Size also may be an issue. At Maryland a freshman level course will probably have anywhere from 150-300 students in it. At CC’s there are maybe 20. A student trying to adjust to college work will probably find the transition much easier at a community college. My son is a prime example of this.</p>
<p>Also, some kids may just not be ready to leave home at 17 or 18.</p>
<p>Right I do agree that some people just don’t see the cost-benefit
I have big argument with my bro-( whose family income is double ours) whose daughter is attending a Indiana school because the state covers her tuition , she has to take out a loan to pay for room and board.
His son attended a community college for two years, and although his dad told him he would help him when he transferred to a 4 year school, he is having to work two jobs while attending school- as a firefighter and as a grocery clerk ( at Wsu)
But I admit his son is determined to complete his program even without his fathers help, but I am disgusted at how hard he is working without his support.
brothers rationalization is that no one helped him go to school- which is true- my mother didn’t notice if we graduated high school or not.
But it took my brother a stint in the military to pay for it and 15 years to complete his BA.
Maybe I place too much importance on a degree because neither my H or I have one, but we are willing to make a financial committment to the kids education disproportinate to our income
I suppose I shouldn’t criticize other families for making different choices, I obviously can’t keep track of who is supporting an elderly aunt and who is trying to fund an early retirement in Cancun- but I do have concerns about the preparation for college, when students that do go to a 4 year school and were on the honor roll in high school, are having to take remedial classes in college- I wonder if the highschools just aren’t preparing them-
I guess I mostly am frustrated when I raise concerns that I see- like the honor roll kids who attend CC, still not at grade level, ( they have a placement test for math and english instead of going by high school transcripts) and having to take remedial classes.
It couldn’t be the schools fault so it must be the kids fault.</p>