<p>pssst…I got into HLS with a HES degree. They thought
it was up to par, but obviously not, judging by some of the highly authoritative and respected voices on this forum.</p>
<p>^ be that as it may, I live in the boston area, and a HES degree is not seen as nearly the same as a real Harvard degree by almost everyone.</p>
<p>I am saying that those who MATTER respect the Extension School, the success
of its graduates attest to that. Despite any ill founded delusions, it unfortunately
is a “real” Harvard degree, awarded by a “real” school of Harvard, and meets “real”
Harvard academic standards.</p>
<p>If a student shows passion for their subject, combined with the right style of
gumption, that student has access to true bona fide Harvard LORs by the very faculty
that teaches at the College. Mix in a solid work record, earned during the course of
study, and I can guarantee that that then graduate can compete with the very best!</p>
<p>Javidsky is correct that an extension degree is a real Harvard degree from a real Harvard school. Classes are taught on the real Harvard campus (often in classrooms in Harvard Yard, which otherwise would be mostly empty at night). But not everything is the same. The students at Harvard College survived the most selective admissions process in America, and all are there to earn a degree. Most extension students are there to pursue specific courses, but don’t plan to earn a degree, and the admissions standards are different. Every school at Harvard has its own dean and faculty. In the case of Extension, the faculty are mostly borrowed from elsewhere – sometimes from other faculties at Harvard (Arts & Sciences as well as the professional schools) and sometimes from other schools in the area. The faculty are basically there because of some combination of: (a) to supplement their income; (b) they really enjoy teaching in the program; (c) Mike Shinagel, who’s been Dean of Extension for decades, used his persuasive powers to talk them into it; (d) it’s a way to put Harvard on your vita if you aren’t already a Harvard employee.</p>
<p>Hello Opensecret, I wholeheartedly agree with you that the College and the
Extension are quite different. By being accepted to the College proves that you are
amongst the best. On the other hand, the Extension provides an opportunity to prove
oneself of similar standards.</p>
<p>This goes far beyond obtaining a degree with a good GPA, It requires a massive
additional effort on the part of the degree candidate to make an impression, and in
a sense build a brand.</p>
<p>pretty much all of the extension schools are not the same caliber… there is a reason they are much cheaper as well! Also if you decide to go to grad school or a really top notch employer (the kind that hires harvard grads), they are going to look at your transcript and see where you took the classes.</p>
<p>grapico I disagree with your points. Firstly, you assume that HES grads immediately try to cover up their HES affiliation. I have been totally honest about mine and have in fact found it a strong selling point, and yes I work for a tech co that is the kind that hires Harvard types. Receiving a degree from HES is not an easy option, 95% of degree candidates don’t make it! It is a Harvard education, and employers recognise and value the utter commitment required to receive it with the minimum of hand holding.</p>
<p>Secondly HES grads have a great track record as regard getting into top notch grad schools. Where do you get your data for your claim?</p>
<p>Thirdly, as far as it being cheaper, have you thought that maybe HES is academically focused while the College also includes other trappings such as dining halls, dorms, events, on hand faculty etc? These trappings are not applicable to non-traditional students that are already engaged in the real world.</p>
<p>I have taken a number of courses at HES and they are exceptional. I hold Bachelors, Masters, CPA, Attorney qualifications. I did not do the courses to deceive anyone including myself but to enhanc emy knowledge in some key areas at Graduate level. The University maintains that the academic standard is the same for the HES as Harvard college, if some refuse to believe it then so be it. The experience is surely different, as is the selection process is very different but note the courses are open access not the degree program and I think that is the confusion that many make. It is surely misleading and incorrect to say one went to Harvard College but it is a matter of fact to say that one went to Harvard University Extension School. It is an alternative way to get a Harvard education. Is it in every respect as good as a fulltime degree program at the college, I doubt it but in terms of the underlying rigor and standard it is a very pretsigious and worthy degree, the college says so, HES does not need the money and would not prostitute it’s reputation. In fact HES fees are very competitive compared with most private colleges. There is a curious snobbery in some of the comments posted which seeks to demean HES students, its unfair and unworthy. Employers would of course rate it highly, it would represent a siffferent experience from Harvard College and should be disclosed but in pure academics I doubt if many would distinguish. So to those who feel it is a good fit, pursue the dream and enjoy the wonderful and enrisching experience. Those who see something sinister or dishonest should chill out.</p>
<p>Being a 40 year old stay at home dad I am exploring online programs as a practical option for completing my 4 year degree. I am more of a “Life Long Learner,” rather than an individual who would care about dropping where the piece of paper is from. Eventually my 2 little boys will be done with their own educational pursuits, and hopefully be out on their own. At this point I would like to have the backing of a degree when re-entering the workforce. </p>
<p>HES appears to be much less expensive than other online options, and with exception of spending one semester on campus to full fill the requirements a front runner in my research.</p>
<p>I am the type who would much rather walk away with a “B” and enriched my learning, than earn straight “A’s” and not retain what I was taught.</p>
<p>Is it a solid program in terms of price, flexibility, and learning? Again…no desire to wear Harvard clothing or purchase a class ring upon completion, just want the knowledge and piece of paper when all is said and done. Again at 40 could care less if it carries the same distinction as the "Traditional Harvard University.</p>
<p>jed, great thoughts. HES is perfect for you!</p>
<p>:cool:</p>
<p>Another quick note: I know a number of Harvard College grads who are taking or took courses at the Extension school. Some wanted to take that comp sci or stats class they never had a chance to when they were in school. Others are taking post-bac courses for med school. Others are just taking classes because of interest. The classes are taught by professors and post-docs and special visiting fellows, just like the regular FAS courses in the College and Grad school. </p>
<p>In general, the students who earn an ALB are usually older or non-traditional students who have other responsibilities such as work or family. There’s really nothing wrong at all with the ALB. I think very few people would try to pass it off as a Harvard College degree. Most are probably at a stage in their professional lives where the distinction wouldn’t make much of a difference anyway.</p>
<p>Obviously, HES won’t be seen in the same light. Nowhere close. The whole point of Harvard is that they are super selective. I’m chuckling at my PC just reading some of the defenses for HES.</p>
<p>So on the one hand, you have regular Harvard where only a tiny amount of people get in, and people fly from other countries to attend. On the other hand, you have HES where anyone gets in - oh and you can even do it online. </p>
<p>C’mon now.</p>
<p>Look, the curriculum itself may very well be of high quality. In the field I’m in (software), you can get a BA from a regular university (oops), get a two year tech degree in software development, and land a pretty solid programming job. So yeah, even community college can teach you something useful.</p>
<p>And yeah… the “Master’s in software engineering” at HES has a curriculum that’s tougher than what you’d get in a tech program. It’s still pretty weak though. They list “advanced calculus” and “linear algebra” as master’s courses. Math like that would be the minimum as PRE-REQ to most any graduate computer science program that’s not even Ivy! </p>
<p>As far as omitting HES from your resume … yeah, it’s unethical. It’s ridiculous. You didn’t have to make the cut! An HES graduate may very well be brilliant, but it’s much, much less likely to be the case versus a regular Harvard grad. It’s the guarantee of the former that makes Harvard look so good on a resume. By omitting HES, you’re conferring that prestige + baseline guarantee onto a degree that carries no such premium.</p>
<p>@George331: If you look at the post right before yours – it was posted two years ago, and most of people that contributed to this thread are probably no longer on CC. </p>
<p>That’s why the first rule of CC is: DO NOT revive old threads; use them for informational purposes only. If you have a question, start a new thread.</p>
<p>From my sister: “As an ALB graduate, let me first declare that there is no comparison between the traditional bachelor’s program at Harvard College and the non-traditional bachelor’s program at the Harvard Extension School. Before all of my fellow Extension-ites pass out in disbelief, allow me to explain my point. Back in 2000 I worked as a student assistant at the Office of the Governing Boards, Loeb House. I had a very candid discussion with one of the Fellows regarding the Extension School and the school’s status at Harvard. For the most part, the President & Fellows of Harvard College do feel that the degree programs at the Extension School are a strong component of Harvard’s philosophical mission. Unlike most other Ivy League institutions, Harvard is the ONLY university to offer a true, world-class education to academically-enabled non-traditional, adult learners. While Columbia and Penn do have programs aimed at non-traditional students, the cost and slim evening course offerings are prohibitive to many working adults. According to this Fellow, the primary goal of the Corporation, as far as the Extension School is concerned, is to keep the programs affordable to adult students that may already be over-burdened with a variety of real life expenses. The fundamental difference between Harvard College and the Harvard Extension School is NOT in the curriculum (as the ALB is heavily modeled after the traditional AB), but in the cost of attendance. If you compare the cost of attendance at Harvard College with the cost of attendance at the Harvard Extension School, you’ll immediately notice a stark difference. That difference is of phenomenal benefit to the academically-enabled non-traditional student. We will earn a bachelor’s degree from Harvard University, study with a world-class faculty, have access to a variety of resources (libraries, email accounts, facilities, many clubs/organizations etc.) and we will become alumni of Harvard University, just as anyone else graduating from the University. For the non-traditional student that wants a world-class education and desires to be a part of an institution steeped in tradition, there is no better opportunity on the planet. I think many HES students fail to understand that the “ivory tower” is still heavily geared towards the traditional student, those young men and women just graduating from high school. A 25, 30 or 35 year old that hasn’t completed a bachelor’s degree will have far fewer options than a 17 year old just graduating from high school. Most often, the only viable options for older students are community colleges, for-profit universities and technical schools. For Harvard to present such an opportunity to non-traditional learners is outstanding and should be commended. To be admitted to the ALB program, one must maintain a B average in their first three courses, complete the application and submit a satisfactory essay. This may be easy for some, but quite difficult for others, especially for those being several years removed from formal education. Perhaps the greatest sacrifice, in my opinion, is the logistical and financial sacrifice required of those wishing to enter the ALB Program. The Extension School DOES NOT offer financial aid to non-admitted students. Meaning, one must pay for at least the first three courses for admission. If one doesn’t meet the GPA requirement with the first three courses, that person must then pay for additional courses or completely abandon their quest for admission. With tuition, books and supplies, the first three courses, could easily top 3K (books are very expensive). Additionally, if one wants to attend Harvard in the evening, but does not live in the Boston area, one would need to find housing on their own. Since HES does not provide financial aid, most adult learners would need some sort of employment (or have a wealthy benefactor) in order to support themselves. This usually means that one would have to work, and often work more than part-time, in addition to taking the 3 courses, getting re-acquainted with formal academics and maintaining honors-level grades at Harvard. Now add to this a mortgage, a wife, children, etc. and you now have an admissions process that self-denies those that aren’t financially and academically prepared to study at the Harvard level. What’s more, the admissions process also eliminates those that aren’t efficient multi-taskers, being able to juggle a job, a family and an Ivy League education. In short, the admissions process at HES is indeed very clever. Any person that’s able to conquer all of the above challenges has earned the right to be called a Harvard man or woman. We, Extension-ites, shouldn’t focus on the differences between HES and the College. They are two very different programs that have been designed to meet the academic needs of two very different audiences. I’m a member of both the Harvard Clubs of Boston and New York City and I can attest, first hand, that there is no HES stigma amongst alumni. In reality, must non-HES alumni know very little about the Extension degree and certificate programs. What’s more, many non-HES alumni aren’t even aware that such non-traditional programs even exist at Harvard. I find myself explaining the program to fellow alumni that have never even heard of the ALB program. Their response after the explanation is almost always one of pleasant surprise and admiration. A handful of people that I’ve met at the Club have asked me to speak with their non-traditional relatives about the program. I’m proud to say that I’ve stolen at least two would-be applicants away from Columbia’s School of General Studies as they chose HES instead. What’s most amazing is that alumni, especially alumni of the College, QUICKLY abandon their sense of entitlement and elitism once they enter the work force. They quickly realize that while Harvard is an incredibly well-respected institution, they are nonetheless on equal footing with their peers from a variety of different institutions and educational backgrounds. In conclusion, Extension-ites should be proud of their outstanding accomplishments. I hate to burst the bubble of those in doubt, but Extension School degree candidates are fully-recognized Harvard alumni. Unlike the College, the ALB program assumes that its degree candidates already have the career focus and maturity necessary for success. The College prepares its youngsters for the work force and provides direction, discipline and social components necessary for their success. That’s what they pay 40K + a year for. That’s what the parents of these youngesters expect. They expect Harvard College to provide an environment for academic and social maturation that will carry their child into the next stages of their lives. So what many believe the Extension programs are “missing” in comparison to Harvard College, I see as simply the difference in audience. At 25, 30, 35 years old, with responsibilities, the word “college” no longer has the traditional meaning. We won’t be playing frisbee in the quad or participating in study groups in the dorms, attending college parties or playing intercollegiate sports. Perhaps for some, the absence of these things puts the HES experience into question. For these people, I believe they would be better suited with a traditional college experience as they obviously desire the social aspects of the traditional college experience. For most others however, being a HES degree student includes rushing out of work to make that 5:30PM class, becoming quite skilled at finding a parking spot in Harvard Square, making it home in time to put their children to sleep, spending all night in the library doing research and working on papers, buying that jumbo cup of coffee to stay alert in class, etc. It’s a different experience and we should relish it as it is our own and has been very much apart of Harvard for over one hundred years.”</p>