Would studying abroad senior year lessen chances of getting into Ivy League/MIT etc.?

[CIEE83]

You have a lot of school ahead of you, but that is trivial compared to the decades of work you will have after. Taking an extra year to finish doesn’t make a difference in the long run, or even really in the short run, except that you will be a bit more mature when you start college. Taking a gap year gave my daughter a much-needed break after a very intense 4 years of high school that left her burnt out. She approached college completely differently as a result. It wasn’t that she took classes that helped her academically; it was that she had a chance to take a step back from her daily grind, look around her, and think. There aren’t many times in life when you can do that.

I spent some time abroad in high school and college, and that was the best part of my education. It taught me that there are very different ways to see things, and gave me a lot of insight about this country. My daughter felt similarly after her experience.

Unless you are someone who can get high grades without much effort, even in demanding classes, trying to finish high school in 3 years could affect your GPA, as I pointed out, so keep that in mind when you are deciding what to do. However, if you do consider a gap year, keep in mind that some high school programs have an age limit. And I do recommend a high school program where you can live with a family. They give you less freedom to do things on your own, but they offer you a chance to experience a culture as a part of a family, not just as a boarder. You can’t do that even through a college program.

[cinnamon1212]

First, pick a program that works with/for your school (so you get credit etc). Talk to guidance counselor so you know how the college application process works while abroad. Has your school had kids do this before? Hopefully yes, and hopefully that means they are familiar with the process and can guide you

As for how it affects college acceptances? My opinion is it would be tremendously helpful. If you have strong rigorous academics the previous 3 years, my opinion (I’m not an AO) is that the schools won’t worry about another AP. They want to see you challenge yourself, take risks, be open to new experiences, and a year in Japan shows that in a way 4 more APs doesn’t.

A year abroad will set you apart, help you stand out in the sea of “average excellent” applicants. But of course, that’s not the reason to study abroad, you would be doing it to experience a new culture, see another way of life, and you would come back changed by the experience.

[altacct]

@cinnamon1212

First, pick a program that works with/for your school (so you get credit etc). Talk to guidance counselor so you know how the college application process works while abroad. Has your school had kids do this before? Hopefully yes, and hopefully that means they are familiar with the process and can guide you

As for how it affects college acceptances? My opinion is it would be tremendously helpful. If you have strong rigorous academics the previous 3 years, my opinion (I’m not an AO) is that the schools won’t worry about another AP. They want to see you challenge yourself, take risks, be open to new experiences, and a year in Japan shows that in a way 4 more APs doesn’t.

A year abroad will set you apart, help you stand out in the sea of “average excellent” applicants. But of course, that’s not the reason to study abroad, you would be doing it to experience a new culture, see another way of life, and you would come back changed by the experience.

I was hoping someone would say this! I think a year in Japan will definitely make up for things I missed senior year.

I agree! And yes, I am by no means doing this because I just want to put it on my applications. Most of my life I’ve wanted to travel to Asia and for the past 5 years at least Japan in particular! If I do go through with this, I think it would be an amazing, life changing experience!

[altacct]

@CIEE83

My daughter did a study abroad high school program in Germany, but she did it as a gap year. Her experience made both of us aware of the issues involved in doing a study abroad during high school, which she avoided by doing the program after graduating. They were as follows:

1. the academic structure of foreign high schools may not resemble US schools, making it hard to get credit for classes. For example, in Germany they take multiple science classes each year instead of focusing on biology one year, chemistry another, etc. So they cover less material in each subject in any one year, but study it for several years. Same went for math. You would have to arrange things with your school in advance to make sure that you would receive academic credit, and possibly would have to do some self study, online classes, or summer classes.

2. If you are immersed in a foreign language at the time you take SAT’s, you will not do as well; the foreign language will make it harder for you to perform in English (temporarily, of course).

3. If you are away during senior year, it will be harder (though not impossible) to do your college applications. Best to have as much as possible done before you leave.

Not a college counselor, but I can’t imagine colleges expecting you to take the same number of APs in 3 years that your peers are taking in 4. You should be taking the most rigorous schedule that your school offers. Trying to do more than that could set you up for bad grades, which would tank your application to elite schools. Study abroad should look good on a college application.

Last thought: consider a gap year. My D went abroad after being accepted to college and deferring matriculation— so she was there purely for the joy of learning. It transformed her approach to college.

I was wondering if I could ask a couple questions about this- Since she was done with all of her credits, what did she do in the high school besides learning the language? Was she able to do anything that counted towards college? Were there ever times that felt stagnant in the school atmosphere in particular since she already graduated?

These are some things I was thinking about the past few days, and how these concerns probably wouldn’t be as prevalent in a college program. I still think a highschool program might be a better way to experience the culture, but I’m not sure.

[katliamom]

A year abroad will look better on your transcript than a semester abroad. In part because it’s harder, the language acquisition is higher, the planning involved (your schedule, SATs, etc.,) is more extensive.

In many ways, a year abroad is the ultimate EC, and yes, it’s respected by colleges. My daughter did it; she and other students who did a year abroad all got into very good colleges, a few into Ivy-caliber schools.

For many students who studied abroad, it’s a life changing experience. I highly encourage you to do it.

[altacct]

@katliamom

A year abroad will look better on your transcript than a semester abroad. In part because it’s harder, the language acquisition is higher, the planning involved (your schedule, SATs, etc.,) is more extensive.

In many ways, a year abroad is the ultimate EC, and yes, it’s respected by colleges. My daughter did it; she and other students who did a year abroad all got into very good colleges, a few into Ivy-caliber schools.

For many students who studied abroad, it’s a life changing experience. I highly encourage you to do it.

Oh wow, that’s great! I can definitely see how it would look really good on apps. It teaches independence, adaptiveness, exploring new cultures, etc. and obviously a new language. And it can also be made better by how you word it like you mentioned, the planning, preparing, etc.

I just want to make sure I’m ready personally because quite frankly I have barely done any traveling up until now, and I want to make sure I’m not rushing through high school. It’s definitely something I will think about through next year and the next (by then I would probably have to write an application). I am pretty certain, however, that if it doesn’t work out for highschool, I would do it in college. So, I am going to start preparing either way by getting a job, continuing my study of the language (will possibly transfer into Japanese at school next year), etc.

Can you tell me a little bit more about how the college admission process worked? Did she do it senior year/what credits did she have to take extra of before she left?

Thanks for your reply.

[melvin123]

We had spoken to our HS guidance counselor about doing something similar, and her response was that for kids interested in going into STEM fields, she strongly recommended that the year abroad be in addition to 4 years of US HS. Meaning, you could do this as a gap year between 10th and 11th, or 11th and 12th, or between 12th and college. I assume part of that related to the fact that our HS has a very strong STEM program and offers a lot of AP stem classes and beyond. Also, many STEM classes build on prior classes and if you are in a different country they may build their foundation at different times so that Chem 2 in the US might be very different from a similar course in Japan. Finally, let me mention that my kid was very glad that she had all the AP classes in HS, so that when she got to college she could skip the intro courses in a lot of things, which enabled her to choose which of the interesting upper level courses she wanted to take. The offerings in college are so many, and so interesting, that it’s nice to have the opportunity to take more of these.

[katliamom]

@altacct - My daughter took the SATs during her junior year abroad, and then the ACTs when she came back. Her high school gave her credit for all the classes she took in Argentina on a pass/fail basis, so her GPA was not affected since she passed all her classes. Your first steps would be to speak to your counselor to find out how your high school deals with study abroad and how to ensure you will meet all of your school’s graduation requirements despite being gone for a year. My daughter was more interested in her study abroad than in getting college credit so she did miss out on some AP opportunities. As it turned out, many of the universities she was interested in didn’t grant college credits for APs, so that turned out to be a moot point.

[one1ofeach]

Don’t rush through highschool!!

I think time abroad is amazing but don’t rush and cram your regular classes in order to do it. Find a program that you would get credit for. Consider going somewhere this summer to see if you would even like to live abroad for a whole year. IF you haven’t done a lot of traveling it might be kind of crazy.

[katliamom]

@one1ofeach – doing a study abroad program doesn’t necessarily mean you’re rushing through high school. Most schools will grant you credits for the classes you take overseas. As opposed to those summer programs you mentioned which are both costly – and often don’t grant credit.

[altacct]

@melvin123 This is definitely something to keep in mind, as I do want to go into the STEM field.

@one1ofeach I agree, but at the same time @katliamom does have a point about the summer programs, though I don’t think they are completely useless. I definitely want to take STEM APs in high school but I am also open to taking extra courses over the summer, etc.

Something that I might try and do is find a few shorter term programs where I can go travel through my school or other means for a shorter but still extended amount of time- maybe 2 weeks to a month or over the summer- that is still educationally enriching so I can put it on my app. Maybe I could do something like going somewhere to take one particular class or do a short research program. Is there anything like that? This way, I can still have something unique to put on my app, and decide if its something I can do for a longer period of time and if it is worth graduating early for. I am, however, almost 100% sure that if I don’t study abroad in HS I will probably do so in college.

[katliamom]

“Something that I might try and do is find a few shorter term programs where I can go travel through my school or other means for a shorter but still extended amount of time- maybe 2 weeks to a month or over the summer- that is still educationally enriching so I can put it on my app.”

That is certainly an option. However, don’t count on it giving you a boost to the elite schools. Short term and summer overseas programs are a “rich kid” cliche that doesn’t mean a whole lot to adcoms. They’re the easier, less demanding alternative to year abroad programs and lots of upper-middle class kids do them.

[momofboiler1]

“Putting it on the app” should not be the driver of any decision making.

[altacct]

@katliamom

“Something that I might try and do is find a few shorter term programs where I can go travel through my school or other means for a shorter but still extended amount of time- maybe 2 weeks to a month or over the summer- that is still educationally enriching so I can put it on my app.”

That is certainly an option. However, don’t count on it giving you a boost to the elite schools. Short term and summer overseas programs are a “rich kid” cliche that doesn’t mean a whole lot to adcoms. They’re the easier, less demanding alternative to year abroad programs and lots of upper-middle class kids do them.

All very true here. I would be working to pay for them, I would probably put that on there.

@momofboiler1

“Putting it on the app” should not be the driver of any decision making.

Definitely, this is just a secondary thing but its still something I’m taking into consideration.

[Lindagaf]

Foregoing the opportunity of a lifetime for the roughly 95% chance you’ll be denied at those schools is a good way to ensure you’ll have at least one regret your whole life.

[Lindagaf]

And fwiw, my daughter studied abroad in Japan for a semester and it’s the best thing she ever did. Do it.

ETA: One of my students studied abroad for his entire junior year of high school. He loved every minute, speaks two languages fluently, in addition to English, and wishes he could have stayed longer.

Your youth is so fleeting. Seize the day, @altacct .

[lookingforward]

First, the difficult part.

Don’t transfer to a public. At this point, you have no idea how much can get complicated from that. Transcript differences, course equivalency definitions, filled classes, a GC who doesn’t know you, your position of respect within the class or in a club/on a team, etc. And is this a Jesuit hs? They are generally better quality and straight shooters.

"I feel like this is definitely a big thing to put on an application that would probably raise my chances of getting into said universities at least a little bit." Not really. Lots of kids do time away, in one form or another. Or other things that have their own impressiveness.

Plus, over 4 years in hs, for a tippy top, you’re expected to have an increasingly strong trajectory, not just get in the right courses and maintain GPA. That includes the depth and breadth of your EC opportunities. You can’t cram all these elements into 3 years. Eg, I hate to think what trade-offs you’d make, if fitting in higher math or science means dropping something non-stem, but seen as equally vital to a tippy top.

You’d need to max out EC opps before going. That’s more than running something or winning some award. For stem, eg, it can mean an internship. Depending on what specific stem interests, it can mean some opps that are generally reserved for rising seniors, not juniors. Or, if premed, X years volunteering in a health setting, increasing responsibilities, becomes X-1.

You’re also trying to check the feasibility at a time when so much about applying is not well known to you. Successfully getting a TT admit relies on some strategy and a lot of awareness. Eg, not sure that, at this point, you know what the big essay is meant to convey. Many kids have their epiphany at a time when you plan to be done with your US hs years. You’ve “heard,” but can’t be sure, what club opps. Unless you’re already looking into specific Japanese programs/hs, you can’t know their stem offerings or the quality of those. (Or other bullets mentioned by @melvin123 .) Or just how difficult it might be to take courses entirely in a foreign language. (Do you know iy anything is taught in English?) Generally, what language one learns in a US high school comes nowhere near the tech terms, lingo or manner of discussing tech issues. And it sounds like you’d be relying on self study or some outside course to pick up enough? How green are you, at Japanese? Realize that this one issue can affect your grades there, too.

Generally, the kids I’ve known who did a senior experience, were 110% ready, in all ways. They knew the short list of foreign hs programs and the actual rigor, the parallel rigor to what they could have, back at home.

And, they were distinctly NOT set on an Ivy or MIT, but quite flexible about what targets. (Like flagships or a nice match college.) NOT looking at stem majors. They were looking at the opportunity, itself, that was their focus. Not looking for a tip, other than the relevance of studying in Japan to their future hopes and plans. How does this idea even connect to your future plans? (Tippy top adcoms will want to see how this makes sense.)

It sounds like your enthusiasm is so strong- and being fed here. You are right to be asking the feasibility questions. But please try to balance the excitement with some solid consideration of the challenges.

BUT. The opp is so great. I agree, you would need to time this just right.

[OhiBro]

Living abroad will teach you WAY more than any Ivy will ever teach you.

[altacct]

@Lindagaf

Foregoing the opportunity of a lifetime for the roughly 95% chance you’ll be denied at those schools is a good way to ensure you’ll have at least one regret your whole life.

This is definitely a good thing to think about, I know that getting to those schools is a really low percent. However, its just really difficult to gauge where I will be in two years. The thing my parents kept bringing up when I mentioned it too them was “why do it so soon? its so early, you should wait until college. there are so many risks” which is understandable but it does raise some points. Of course I want to travel to Japan and quite frankly given certain circumstances if there were no classes at all I would still go for it, but from a purely academic standpoint, I don’t even know if these classes would count for anything. But at the same time going to class is just the tip of the iceberg. But then again, that is a decent portion of what I would be paying for. I just wouldn’t want to feel stagnant. At least with studying abroad I am taking classes that are more of a sure thing for counting towards something. BUT I DON’T WANT IT TO SOUND LIKE I ONLY CARE ABOUT CLASSES, its just one of many things that comes to mind. Maybe I just need to research the different programs.

@Lindagaf

And fwiw, my daughter studied abroad in Japan for a semester and it’s the best thing she ever did. Do it.

ETA: One of my students studied abroad for his entire junior year of high school. He loved every minute, speaks two languages fluently, in addition to English, and wishes he could have stayed longer.

Your youth is so fleeting. Seize the day, @altacct .

Can I ask what program she went with?

@lookingforward

First, the difficult part.

Don’t transfer to a public. At this point, you have no idea how much can get complicated from that. Transcript differences, course equivalency definitions, filled classes, a GC who doesn’t know you, your position of respect within the class or in a club/on a team, etc. And is this a Jesuit hs? They are generally better quality and straight shooters.

"I feel like this is definitely a big thing to put on an application that would probably raise my chances of getting into said universities at least a little bit." Not really. Lots of kids do time away, in one form or another. Or other things that have their own impressiveness.

Plus, over 4 years in hs, for a tippy top, you’re expected to have an increasingly strong trajectory, not just get in the right courses and maintain GPA. That includes the depth and breadth of your EC opportunities. You can’t cram all these elements into 3 years. Eg, I hate to think what trade-offs you’d make, if fitting in higher math or science means dropping something non-stem, but seen as equally vital to a tippy top.

You’d need to max out EC opps before going. That’s more than running something or winning some award. For stem, eg, it can mean an internship. Depending on what specific stem interests, it can mean some opps that are generally reserved for rising seniors, not juniors. Or, if premed, X years volunteering in a health setting, increasing responsibilities, becomes X-1.

You’re also trying to check the feasibility at a time when so much about applying is not well known to you. Successfully getting a TT admit relies on some strategy and a lot of awareness. Eg, not sure that, at this point, you know what the big essay is meant to convey. Many kids have their epiphany at a time when you plan to be done with your US hs years. You’ve “heard,” but can’t be sure, what club opps. Unless you’re already looking into specific Japanese programs/hs, you can’t know their stem offerings or the quality of those. (Or other bullets mentioned by @melvin123 .) Or just how difficult it might be to take courses entirely in a foreign language. (Do you know iy anything is taught in English?) Generally, what language one learns in a US high school comes nowhere near the tech terms, lingo or manner of discussing tech issues. And it sounds like you’d be relying on self study or some outside course to pick up enough? How green are you, at Japanese? Realize that this one issue can affect your grades there, too.

Generally, the kids I’ve known who did a senior experience, were 110% ready, in all ways. They knew the short list of foreign hs programs and the actual rigor, the parallel rigor to what they could have, back at home.

And, they were distinctly NOT set on an Ivy or MIT, but quite flexible about what targets. (Like flagships or a nice match college.) NOT looking at stem majors. They were looking at the opportunity, itself, that was their focus. Not looking for a tip, other than the relevance of studying in Japan to their future hopes and plans. How does this idea even connect to your future plans? (Tippy top adcoms will want to see how this makes sense.)

It sounds like your enthusiasm is so strong- and being fed here. You are right to be asking the feasibility questions. But please try to balance the excitement with some solid consideration of the challenges.

BUT. The opp is so great. I agree, you would need to time this just right.

I’m gonna go in order of paragraphs here-

Definitely complications. I think I am going to try shoot my shot though because there are a couple of “choice” schools in my district. Right off the bat for benefits benefiting specifically study abroad- Bot of these schools offer Japanese classes and clubs. Not only would this help my language skills beyond self study but many of these programs offer short trips to Japan. Also has a lot more EC opportunities, which would help me build them up more solidly over three years. Also I think it would probably be more lenient towards letting me take extra classes, classes during the summer etc. Aside from study abroad I think both these schools would have better opportunities than my current school in general. Also my school is so small (graduating class less than 200) that I think it would be statistically easier to rank higher percentile at a public school for things like auto-admit state colleges (based on certain percentile). My current school is a catholic school, its not bad quality per se but it does have some major organizational and balance issues.

ECs might be a little tough but I could try to do more summer programs. As far as classes I could probably take an English class over the summer and extra STEM APs as electives (?).

This is a dumb question but what are opps, sorry. I’ve been self studying for about a year but inconsistently, I’m around half way through a beginner textbook, I’m looking to amp it up this semester and over the summer as things slow down.

Honestly I’m not actually sure how it would specifically pertain to future plans. I definitely want to travel more in the future. Other than that, I just am really interested in getting out there and in Japan in particular. I know Japan has some great STEM opportunities but I’m not sure if I would want to live or work there permanently.

timing is definitely the biggest issue. I ultimately would likely need to decide for sure by around this time in two years, or probably earlier. So ultimately its going to depend on how things go this summer, the next year, and the summer after that. It’s just hard to decide when I would actually want to do this and if its worth it.

[Lindagaf]

@altacct , my daughter went as a junior in college, and that program is only for college students. She lived in a home with a Japanese family. It was a selective program and she had to be proficient at a certain a level of Japanese before she went, as the family spoke no English.

My student studied in one of the Low Countries and lived with two families for the school year. I don’t know what program he did, but he had a nerve-wracking time finding a second host family because the company he went with didn’t find a suitable second family for him to live with in the second semester.

A very good friend’s daughter did an intense yearlong program in a poor African country, as a gap year project before going to college. It was pretty grueling, as they lived in what we would call primitive conditions. It was also competitive to get on the program, because the student t teachers had to be able to endure no modern plumbing and not great food, etc…One participant became quite sick and had to leave the program. However, my friend’s daughter absolutely loved her experience.

I myself studied abroad as a college junior. I stayed in Europe for nearly a year. It changed my life for the better. In fact, as a working adult, I then ended up moving back to that country for twenty years, where I got married and had kids.

The thing we all have in common: these experiences made us who we are now. We all faced challenges and had to make mature decisions. Not one of us regrets living abroad for an extended period of time.

Sure, you may well study abroad again in college. Frankly, passing up a great opportunity that’s a sure thing for a BIG maybe doesn’t seem like a good bet.