@privatebanker - I am talking about exactly those kinds of situations. The folks I am dealing with are not in our office. Even when I refer to someone as Doctor Lastname in my first introductory email, they always sign the reply with their first name. 
@BunsenBurner Of course. Good point. I was mostly talking about others making the intro. Not the PhD themselves. Very true.
One caveat. I never found that to be true with therapists or their offices. Even after the intro in a non clinical setting. Obviously outside of their personal life.
I had a misfortune of interacting with a lot of medical professionals here in the last couple of years, and introducing themselves as Doctor Lastame or Doctor Firstname is very uncommon. Usually, it is, “Hi, I am Mike, I will be your ER doctor today.” Or “Hi, I am Amy, I will be doing this and that…” Again, this is PNW.
MDs don’t end their training after med school. How many clinical hours do they get in their residency program, generally 3-years for IM or FP?
I have read only abit of this but she can not reference herself as a doctor in a treatment facility period. If she does she is committing fraud. Professional regulations would have a field day with her and the clinic she is working at. If she is not in a clinical setting and has a doctorate in something else like academics she can then be referenced as Doctor X.
Boy, what did I start!
Just reiterating that this woman did not have her doctorate with her NP training. DID NOT. She is a registered nurse practitioner.
She had an “academic Ph.D.” attached at the end of her badge, that she was using to identify herself as “Dr. Ellie Walker” in a clinical-patient environment. This was my original concern. Why would you intentionally confuse the patient?
If she had had a DNP, I could go with that, because this would show further training in the area of “patient care” and she would merit that title. But she didn’t have that certification.
My physician originally introduced herself in this manner: “Hello, I’m Helen Crump, it’s nice to meet you; let’s find out what’s going on and let’s review your file”. Very “California informal”. When I see her, I call her Dr. Crump, which is what her staff and patients call her.
A while back, someone told me about an airline that needed a physician to care for someone who had become ill. They announced that they needed to speak to a “doctor” on board. Someone with a “doctorate” came forward. When they asked about helping and advising in the care of an ill passenger, the “doctorate” said that he was not that kind of a doctor. So they had to ask again and this time indicated that they needed a physician or a nurse to come forward. I get that this is another can of worms. Issues?
This debate has been going on for quite a while… old NYT article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/health/policy/02docs.html
It appears that some states have prohibited nurses with PhD to refer to themselves as Dr. in clinical settings.
Once again, she can’t state she is Doctor X in a clinical setting. Just setting herself up for malpractice and a suite against her employer. For the record… I introduce my self as Dr X and then state my first name. Most of my patients seem to be my age and I treat their children as well. For some reason in the last few years some guys call me Mister x… Hmmm… As long as they pay their bill on the way out… ?
Do your own research. I never go to a medical appointment without looking at the practitioner’s credentials online.
My MDs differ on whether they refer to themselves as Dr Lastname or Firstnane. I also fluctuate between the two, depending on their age and Th venu in which we met.
If they introduce themselves to me as a Dr Kastnsme, we go with that and they often call me Mrs Lastname. If they call me by my 1st name, they generally ask me to call me by their first name and we generally do that when we are talking face to face.
In conversation with others, whether I refer to them as first name or Dr Lastnane depends on how the others in the audience generally refer to them as.
The same with phds. I generally take my cue on how to address them by how they address me. If they are talking to me by my 1st name, I call them by their 1st name. I inked eould call them Dr when introducing them in a speech where their PhD is listed on s program or if everyone is going by Dr and Other titles (rare). In a clinical setting it is unnecessarily confusing to refer to a PhD as Dr.
She was licensed to practice medicine in 2014. My comment was in reference to the condescending attitude that she displayed towards me, a woman old enough to be her mother. I found it surprising that someone with such a relatively small amount of experience would have such an attitude. Her technical skills may be top notch and she may be at the cutting edge of her specialty, but I won’t see her again and I won’t recommend that anyone I know use her. I don’t have to. My own doctor is wonderful and his attitude and demeanor are top notch.
Attitudes and condescension really are offputting and IMHO opinion have no place in the clinical setting. I would also stop seeing any practitioner who is condescending to me!
My PCP is really nice. I can’t even pronounce her first name. Thank goodness she uses Dr. Lastname.
My D is a second year resident. She introduces herself as Dr last name. Her white coat clearly states her name and M.D. but because of her looking very young, she still gets patients asking for the real Dr. She also gets asked for the book cart, water, etc…
People often dont look at the title on a practicioners coat.
I do all the time (lots of practice with my son being in the hospital 70 days recently). And if I see it’s a resident, I do ask to speak to a supervisor.
Absolutely. Those I know also introduce themselves out of the office as ‘Dr.’ One even has it on her car license plate.
Fair point @roethlisburger . In my state it is a year of residency, but able to call self Dr. after med school. The NP continues to train as well and is expected to have a mentor for the first couple of year. Continuing ed requirements in my state are the same for the physician as the NP. I will make the argument we are all always learning.
@“aunt bea” I don’t think you “started” anything. The discussions here have been civil and I am happy to be able to discuss the NP role. Again, I won’t call myself “Dr” in the clinic as I try to let my practice speak for itself. A title isn’t important.
@GTalum --they are doctors after they graduate, but can’t practice. They can be licensed after one year, but no residencies are only one year, and I don’t think anyone can be board-certified until they finish residency, which is usually at a minimum three years.
Re Bunsen Burner’s #60, actually Germany has quite strict standards about which academics can call themselves Dr. and a great many doctorates held by Americans will not suffice. The last I knew, Cambridge and Oxford were not willing to acknowledge a Ph.D. from outside Oxbridge, but within England–e.g., University of London. This is ridiculous of course, but it was the practice. Perhaps it has changed now.
bearcatfan, I am sure that the AP style you referenced is correct, just using “doctor” to refer to medical doctors.
Within academia, M.D., D.O., J.D. and other degrees that do not require a significant addition to the body of knowledge, just a level of mastery of known concepts, do not carry the relative weight that they do outside. That’s fine.
The University of Chicago practices a kind of inverse snobbery, where the professors are referred to as Mr. or Ms. It is somewhat unsettling to call a Dean there, and have the phone answered “Mr. X’s office.”
The discussion reminds me of a comic–Doonesbury, I think–where a medical emergency occurs during a performance and the call “Is there a doctor in the house?” is answered by someone saying “I have a Ph.D. in English Literature.”
One circumstance where I would not use my title (outside of social settings, where I don’t use it either) is when flying–the flight attendants need to be able to differentiate a medical doctor from an academic doctor.
As far as the Ph.D. going at the end of the name, that is not the practice within academia–at least, not among any of the people with whom I interact professionally, even in the PNW. It might be true for someone in academia interacting with someone outside of academia.
One of my colleagues was heckled for several years, because he had signed a letter X Y, Ph.D. within the University. (Technically, I suppose it was just teasing, but it came across as heckling.)
In academia, the normal sign-off for a letter would be:
Name (first name if you know the person well, full name otherwise)
Title–e.g. professorial rank, not Dr. or Ph.D.
Department/University/whatever
Other contact info
At conferences, the speakers are normally introduced just as First Name Last Name, without any titles. It is true that grad students sometimes speak at conferences, but in my field not very often.