I agree that there probably are not many students who are focused on the Ivies who also are interested in southern public schools. I bet there are, however, students who pine for Ivy bragging rights who would also apply to highly ranked schools in the south like Duke, Vanderbilt and Rice.
It would be interesting to see if we could find any signs of a demand shift among the most selective private colleges that was strongly correlated with region. The problem is you would have to control for other possible factors, including academic mix.
But has, for example, Rice gained demand at the expense of Dartmouth, Cornell, CMU, or so on? No one Northeast college may be a perfect analog for Rice, but perhaps a collection could be.
The kids I know who are excited about Rice see it as more a substitute/analog for Northwestern, Wash U, Emory, Macalester, â not a Northeastern school.
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Except perhaps Georgia Tech.
I think the southern trend started years ago.
This article was 2018
Money. Money. Money
We all think $250k, $300k, $400k no problem.
Hmmm
It is a problem. Especially when you can get the same at many places for under $100k. Even some wealthy Ivy parents see that. My kids werenât even allowed to apply (unless they paid)âŠ.donât see the full pay value.
And society is moving south in general terms anyway.
This WSJ article above is a rehash of whatâs been going on even pre covidâŠ.with this linked article an example.
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Could be, but our family is seeing the same trend in NY / CT areas where money is definitely no problem. This is a noticeable trend in Greenwich CT. So at least with that particular demographic mix, itâs happening. So, my skepticism that we need to convert this to a discussion about pro-Israel Jewish people vs. anti-Netanyahu Jewish people.
No matter ones wealth, you see people with different value judgements on a financial level.
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Yes, networking, both career-related and social, is one of the reasons that the United States has a Sleep-Away Camp model of college for the upper classes in particular. And these big Southern publics provide the sort of connections that upper class families consider the ârightâ connections. For example on the thread devoted to fancy dorm room decorations, I was struck by how rich and famous some of the families were. In the Northeast, rich and famous families donât send their kids to the in-state publics such as Rutgers and Bing. But in the South they do go to Olâ Miss and Alabama etc. These Southern schools are easy admits and very affordable (for these types of families.) And with their big emphasis on socializing, they build strong networks.
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My kid was sold on own bedroom, shared bathroom with one. And a newish building. His other choice Purdue - over crowding, forced triples, and some off campus at the time. That itâs highly ranked for engineering wasnât relevant vs housing.
Itâs not common. Happening more. But not common. But most common down south where he ended up.
Kids are choosing schools for amenities. Thereâs no question
Why else are some schools becoming the 2nd version of the Bellagio Hotel (fancy water features, etc).
I invest in municipal bonds supported by these public/private dorm partnerships building nicer housing than my own. Most are south.
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For those who can afford it, a less selective out of state flagship may seem more attractive than an in state non flagship for a student with not top end college admission credentials.
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100%. Older DD refused to apply to Ivies (âI am not applying to Ivies, do not even mention itâŠâ), and I was very relieved. She indeed applied to Duke and Rice.
I guess DD was an exception, but she did Engineering shopping so Emory, MacAlester never even crossed our minds.
For user wanting to discuss school responses to protests and how that may impact decision making, please use this thread in the political forum: https://talk.collegeconfidential.com/t/israel-gaza-college-protests-and-responses/3664801/
Yes- of course focus/subject matters. My engineering kid would only consider U Chicago as a place which did not have robust engineering because he loved the physics opportunities there and loved the overall vibe.
Academic strength is increasingly discordant with the group that the Upper Classes choose to network with.
Highly selective âeliteâ schools are selling access to the scions of industry as much as they are selling access to the most passionate scholars. The value of a Yale education has a lot to do with Skull and Key and those kinds of connections that make or break real world careers and promotions much more than the basic Yale diploma.
As others âfloodâ into the pool of elite scholars and athletes, certain populations within the wealthy entrenched are being squeezed out, and the veil of meritocracy has been pulled back. The new bastions of the elite have become highly selective boarding and NYC-based private schools and to some degree these southern Colleges.
We do not live in the NE, but weather, campus culture, and cost were big deciding factors for our kid and that all ended up eliminating everything in the Northeast. She didnât want anywhere âtoo cold, stuffy, or intense,â where âintenseâ for her meant a campus culture of intense, stressed out, anxious students who are in a pressure cooker sort of environment. âIntenseâ for our daughter also meant that she wanted a campus culture which was fairly middle of the road politically, and you werenât going to be screamed and yelled at because of who you are, what religion you practice, or because of who you choose to vote for. AND âintenseâ meant that D24 wanted a more collaborative learning environment, not one where thereâs a lot of stepping all over each other & stabbing fellow students in the back in order to claw your way to the top.
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You have a very skewed view of what affluent people want/seek.
A tiny proportion of Yale undergrads are in secret societies⊠and somehow, NOT being in one does not hold back the vast majority of its grads- professionally, socially, intellectually.
For sure there is a subset of the 1% that care more about their kidâs social opportunities in college than they do the other stuff. But that has been true for the last 200 years at these colleges. Nothing new here.
What has changed is that the âGentlemanâs Câ cohort no longer even HAS the option of attending HYP etc. The marginal student whose family expects him to get a rubber stamped ivy league diploma and then join the family wealth management business (or shuffle papers at the Family office) isnât getting in to HYP with a high six figure donation. Easier and better to admit the first gen kid with no money but true intellectual achievement and interests.
THOSE kids are now looking for socially acceptable alternatives which may in fact, be Southern. And I agree with you- itâs likely not U Conn or Rutgers, fantastic institutions though they may be.
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Both of our MA boys went south for college. The older son graduated and is never coming back. The younger son was a recruited athlete.
For their particular school, the difference in full pay out-of-state direct costs compared to UMass Amherstâs in-state direct costs was just over $7,000 per year. That amount wasnât enough for us to discourage the migration south.
I can tell you that off campus housing can be much cheaper compared to the Northeast. Our younger son currently lives in a gated apartment complex full of newer large 3-4 bedroom townhomes, all with big master bedrooms and sizeable walk in closets. The complex has a massive, centrally located pool complex and very nice landscaping. We pay $800 per month in rent for that âluxury,â but there are perfectly nice complexes that charge less than $500 per month.
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For those who say the draw is the better weather in the South, is there any concern over severe weather events that appear to becoming more common?
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Yes. Yaleâs Secret Societies are probably the most limited. A better example would have been the proportion of students in certain eating clubs or finals clubs. I think the last tally about 20% of Harvard men (Unless youâre only counting the Porc as a real finals club).
Itâs not about being held back. itâs about not enjoying the networking benefits on display at your local CC. Who at the CC thinks itâs about the golf?
Perhaps looking at the culture and composition of the classes at Rutgers vs. these Southern Colleges would start to show why people are making the choice to go south.
As has been said above, itâs not the Ivies who are suffering from fewer applications. Still, it must be a difficult balance between admitting the most qualified students, maintaining a meaningful networking advantage, extending opportunities to the underprivileged and other institutional priorities. I guess thatâs why âdiversityâ has to be so secretive.
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