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You’ve just described my in-laws. :p</p>
<p>People have the right to live any where they want but they need to understand and accept the trade-offs. The price of my 4,000 square foot house in a medium southern city would afford me a 800-1,000 square foot apartment in Manhattan. And salaries aren’t that much lower here. I can understand the appeal of Manhattan, I would love to live there for a year or two but I also like to have space in my home…hate feeling cramped.</p>
<p>I don’t really feel sorry for the two in NYC - they’ve made the choice to live there and one of the largest consequences of living in NYC (even in Brooklyn) is that you probably aren’t going to be able to buy a house or a condo early in your career.</p>
<p>We all have the ability to make choices. I have seen many, many people come from expensive cities up north to live here because it’s more affordable and it offers a nice quality of life.</p>
<p>OTOH, my cousin left here to move to Manhattan and loves it and is raising her kids there. They are fine with what they have given up to live there and feel it’s worth it. They were working and married a long time before they bought their 1st condo.</p>
<p>And then the question is how to convince the NJ kid to fly the coop to an area of the country they have never lived so that they can afford to support themselves?</p>
<p>Not such an easy task…nor are the job networks readily there…</p>
<p>We should keep in mind that in the early 90’s, people were still expected to put a lot of their own money into the purchase price of a home. A minimum of 20% down was not unusual and less than 10% down was rare. It was only when the mortgage industry went insane that we saw people buying homes while putting no money down. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t be surprised if the parents of the 30ish teachers in NYC had to wait a long time to come up with enough money to afford to buy their house. My wife and I certainly did. I think that what’s happened in the mortgage business shows that it is a good thing for the country to require a substantial downpayment.</p>
<p>As for the student loans, I’ve told our daughter, who is a HS senior, that if she accumulates a lot of debt, whether by student loans or credit cards, it will impact on her ability to buy a house.</p>
<p>I’ve tried to get her to understand how it seems to me that when the governments make more money available for education, the colleges raise their tuition and pay more money for administrators. So the middle class does not seem to have been/ helped by the system. I suspect that if the government funding is reduced, the costs of college would become more affordable. The college bubble reminds me a lot of the real estate bubble before it collapsed.</p>
<p>My daughter asked why the Occupy Wall Street group doesn’t focus on the colleges and the politicians. That is an excellent question.</p>
<p>Yes, i agree with your D! VERY much so!!</p>
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<p>Yes, that’s the idea. You go where you can get work and support yourself. In part, you convince your kids by letting them know that you will not subsidize them to live locally. If you are not willing to do this, then of course you will be living in an extended family arrangement for quite some time. Whatever works for you.</p>
<p>My family has always been willing to move for jobs. I don’t think it’s outrageous or unusual. I have relatives in the East, South, Midwest, and Pacific Northwest. It’s a big world out there.</p>
<p>Not to completely ‘out’ my location, but there are plenty of great towns on NJ Transit lines that have 30-35 minute travel times to NY Penn. In NJ, you typically want/need a car for errands, however you may be able to walk to the train and/or have a cute downtown with shopping. For $300-325k, you can find 3br/1ba houses (1200-1500 sf) on 50x100 lots, there are even plenty <$300k that look like they need work. </p>
<p>Property taxes in NJ suck - no way around it. School districts are quite small (typically 1-2 towns), with eduction funded primarily by local property taxes and the state has cut funding over the years. All that said, many people move here from NYC and see housing costs decrease because of the crazy rental market in Manhattan (typically after taxes, although I know some that saw it w/o tax considerations).</p>
<p>There have always been multi-generational homes. When times get tough, that is what families do. People manage.</p>
<p>Nj2011: just had this NJ transit convo with a young adult (in her 30’s)…tried it for two years from Bergen County and gave up when she was almost fired for being consistently late to work…started driving in…and hates it but not alot of options…</p>
<p>My new pastime is to count how many weekdays there is a problem somewhere on NJ transit trains…it is ridiculous</p>
<p>NJ Transit has had a rough year, excluding the storm damage, however, the blame lies squarely on Amtrak, as they own the rails into Penn Station. Bergen County doesn’t have a great line and you would be hard pressed to find something affordable there. The better lines (more consistent service) are Northeast Corridor and Morris/Essex. Raritan Valley is OK, but you will need to change in Newark, as the line is diesel only. That said, I have several co-workers that take the bus in from NJ and are quite happy with it.</p>
<p>I could buy a 2BR condo in Kona for under $150K all day long. Maybe even with ocean front or view. </p>
<p>[Hawaiis.com</a> Search Results](<a href=“Hawaiis.com Search Results”>Hawaiis.com Search Results)</p>
<p>S takes a NJ Transit bus over the GW bridge from Bergen County. He says he doesn’t know why they bother to publish a schedule. “We’ll be there when we get there” would save everyone a lot of angst. He’s convinced that whoever created the schedule never actually gave it to the bus drivers.</p>
<p>nj2011mom - Thanks for the heads up on which are the good train lines and which to avoid - I shall share that with S for when he goes apartment hunting. My in-laws are convinced he should live in Hoboken, although in their opinion anything that’s not within sight of the Hudson River is the boondocks.</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but a 3BR/1BR house, 1200 - 1500 sq ft on a 5000 sq foot lot for $300k - $350k is NOT affordable. And it may “need work”? AND add a hefty property tax bill on top of that mortgage payment? That’s insane.</p>
<p>Lafalum: I, too, vote for Hoboken but for a diff reason than your in-laws…great for young people, tons of restaurants, bars etc and, bestof all, the PATH train…best commute ever</p>
<p>Affordability is relative and depends what sort of rent you are willing to pay. (needs work is also relative - you may get a kitchen or bath that’s 30 years old or rooms that need painting. Completely acceptable, but not new). Assuming a $325k purchase price, with 10% down, leaves a $292k mortgage. A 30yr mortgage @ 5%, plus $10k annual prop taxes, results in a $2400 monthly payment. If you assume 30% of gross income for housing, that’s a $96k annual income to qualify for that mortgage. For 2 people working in NYC, that would be considered standard. I would challenge you to find a 3br apartment in NYC for $2400/month. </p>
<p>We have friends living in Jersey City Heights that are quite happy. They take a bus into NYC.</p>
<p>Single people in their 20s may not find living in the 'burbs exciting (read: no night life), which is why Hoboken is a magnet for them. Montclair may be an exception, however.</p>
<p>Knowing what I know now, I would NOT advise anyone to buy real estate that is barely affordable, and especially not on two incomes, unless they have family to back them up with some assistance (if the assistance is not financial, they will need to live near relatives) should they end up with - </p>
<ol>
<li><p>Unforseen job loss</p></li>
<li><p>Accident or unforseen chronic illness that adds expenses at best, or makes working difficult or impossible at worst. At the worst, there will ALSO most likely be a need for some caregiving that will probably not be covered by insurance.</p></li>
<li><p>Need for one spouse to step into a full-time caregiver role, on either a temporary (as in ill parent) or permanent (as in seriously ill or disabled child) basis, because help is either unavailable or unaffordable.</p></li>
<li><p>Unforseen costs in fixing up an older house or condo. </p></li>
<li><p>And all of this in an uncertain real estate market, in which real estate may not keep its value or can become very difficult to unload in an emergancy situation.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Compared to the trials of a long commute, these issues scare me, even for a young couple with secure jobs and in good health.</p>
<p>So first you’d need to save $33k - plus closing costs, lets conservatively make it $35k. Then you get a $2400/month mortgage & taxes PLUS homeowner’s insurance - at least $2500/month, for the next 30 years. And you end up with a 1300 square foot house that needs work, on a 5000 sq foot lot - so you can’t even add on to the house.</p>
<p>And you have to save that $33k while paying NY/NJ rent. And commuting costs (which can easily run several hundred dollars a month).</p>
<p>I’m glad I’m not 25 years old and working in NYC!</p>
<p>Haven’t read the article yet, but the topic seems interesting. I have 2 sons. One has worked since he was 16. He is now 21 and has been at the same company for almost 3 years. He has been part time 20-25 hours or more, a lot of the time he has been more like 35 hours. He has been going to CC during this time and got his AS in Business and is a junior at the local Univ. He is still working 35 hours at a home improvement store. I thik he is officially full-time now. He has dropped courses now and then, and next spring will be taking only 4 so he can keep his job. </p>
<p>My point was that he is taking it a little slower than others, but still enrolled full-time. He should be set to get a management position by the time he graduates, or at least a dept mgr before that. What’s the rush anymore? My neighbor took summer classes and extra classes to graduate “on-time”. All she’s done is work part-time in a pizza place. SHe wants to be a teacher. My son will have earned more in school than she will her first year of work IF she gets a job. I think part-time school may be the way to go. It lets people earn money while they’re in school. It may spread out tuition costs, and when they graduate maybe they will already have a job, or at least something on the resume.</p>
<p>Does that make any sense?</p>
<p>S2 has barely worked. He is the athlete. He has just started to go full-time and won’t work if he’s playing because I doubt he could do it all. He may graduate “on-time” but I bet S1 has the better job sooner after he graduates than S2 will.</p>
<p>Oh yes, S1 lives home. We pay insurance and tuition because we believe we should pay tuition and we pay insurance as incentive to stay in school. He has been banking lots of $. I bet he has more saved than many adults. $$ drives him. Problem is he’d rather work than get educated, but luckily is seeing that they go together in the long run.</p>
<p>Sorry for rambling</p>
<p>An article about current economic times and the effect on young people now entering the work force:
[Recession</a> Generation Will Spend Less for Life - The Daily Beast](<a href=“http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/01/08/the-recession-generation.html]Recession”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/01/08/the-recession-generation.html)</p>
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