Yale and Religion

Colleges & Universities Yale University
1

<p>Hi all, I’m a new student who just got through the opening ceremony today, and I have some thoughts on the matter, but do not know where I can air them other than on CC.</p>

<p>The opening ceremony for college, which mandates attendance from all students, was all in all pretty good. However, there was one portion of it which disappointed me, and that was the part where all the students were made to rise and sing a hymn, namely “God of All People”, the lyrics of which include the lines</p>

<p>God of all people, whose almighty hand,
leads forth in beauty all the starry band
[…]
Be Thou our ruler, guardian, guide and stay,
Thy word our law, Thy paths our chosen way.</p>

<p>I do confess that this portion made me uncomfortable, because it was clear from the context that this was the god of Christianity in particular, and named him as the god of “all people”. I do not know what the followers of other religions such as Islam and Buddhism may have thought of this, but I know that I as an atheist was uncomfortable with it, and especially with the “all people” part. </p>

<p>I was uncomfortable, and I was deeply disappointed, because in this age where diversity and respect for others’ religions - or lack thereof - is the cornerstone of enlightenment, I believe that this airing of one religion in the faces of people who may or may not be its adherents, in a school that is nominally secular, is not worthy of a world-class university.</p>

<p>On a larger scale: I am an international student. For the most part, America has left an overwhelmingly positive first impression on me. This, however, surprises me: that Americans, more than the people of Europe or Asia or anywhere else except maybe the Middle East, feel that it is acceptable to allow one religion to spill pervasively into the public sphere. It is unworthy of the country which invented the concept of state-church separation, and which now champions the idea of tolerance and respect. I understand that it may be a cherished tradition. But sometimes traditions are not, and should not be, above scrutiny.</p>

<p>These are just some thoughts. I understand that many Americans may think I’m making mountains of molehills; but truly, if it were an Islamic hymn that was incorporated into the Yale opening ceremony, or a Buddhist one, would you still feel that it was so natural and comfortable? In comparison with the hymn that lauded the “God of all people”, I liked the ending blessing better: shalom and salaam, and go in peace.</p>

2

<p>Firstly, unless you are sick like I am, you should be out engaging in social activities at 11 pm on a Saturday night during Camp Yale.</p>

<p>Secondly, did the line “for God, for country, and for Yale” in the alma mater annoy you too?</p>

3

<p>Firstly, I don’t see how that has anything to do with the matter at hand, and would appreciate keeping this on track and not necessarily about my own habits, since that could devolve pretty quickly. </p>

<p>Secondly, less so, due to it not talking about “all people”, which was sort of what annoyed me in the first place.</p>

4

<p>Elfsheen - overall, I think you will find the campus to be extremely open to all different points of view. I wouldn’t let one aspect of the day overshadow the whole experience. Get your blue book out and start thinking about “shopping.”</p>

5

<p>I’m not a student (hopefully some day I will be), but I feel like you are blowing something small out of proportion (please don’t think I’m trying to insult you).
Just so you are aware, separation of church and state is not separation FROM church and state. The significance of separation of church and state was to insure that a theocracy, where religious idealism and oligarchy reigned, did not exist. It was to ensure that people were entitled to hold office and proclaim their own religious beliefs (or lack there of) in politics, not to make a government devoid of all religious influence. Just because you elect to not believe in God, does not mean that other people, the ones making the traditions and rules, should not be allowed to do the opposite if they choose. A school, no matter public or private, should be entitled to state whatever religious view it supports.
And again, not trying to insult you in any way (my best friend is an atheist), but you did know coming in that there were in fact some religious traditions at Yale, despite being a secular school, so it was your own choice in attending. There is no reason why you were required to sing the lyrics. If you didn’t like them, you didn’t have to sing them.
Honestly, it appears like it is more of a tradition of the school than a religious statement. It’s like coinage in the US that states, in God we trust. We could get rid of it, sure, but now a days, most people don’t really care if it’s on there or not and it really doesn’t have religious significance (it’s more patriotic than anything), just as the song was a Yale tradition more than a religious one.</p>

<p>Good luck, and have some fun!</p>

6

<p>Just a heads up that if you feel strongly about it, you may want to skip the Baccalaureate service when you graduate. The three Abrahamic faiths are represented in the readings and the benedictions, and the hymns sung this year were “God of all people” and “Joyful, joyful we adore thee”.</p>

7

<p>Elfsheen, I can empathize with your discomfort. But, if I had chosen to go overseas to attend a University that was founded in Islamic or Buddhist tradition, even if the school had become completely secular and no longer identified with one faith, I would not be surprised if some of the school traditions, architecture, school songs, etc. retained a historical trace of its origins. I honestly don’t feel you should make any inferences because a traditional hymn was sung, a hymn composed within Western traditions: Yale was founded within those traditions and retains them as part of its historic personality. The entire University in its architecture, inscriptions, and yes, some traditions and mottos, necessarily reflects its ethnic origin, if I can use that term. Yale is a completely secular institution now just as the United States has no state religion (yet we still publish “In God we trust” on our currency).</p>

<p>But if you are still feeling uncomfortable, I would like to encourage you to drop by the Chaplain’s office in the basement of Bingham. Apart from free food and ice cream, a glimpse at the prayer space for Moslem students, the prayer space for Hindu students, and the plurality of faiths represented on the bulletin boards there, might reassure you that Yale welcomes students of all faiths and does not intend to indoctrinate or inculcate any one religious view.</p>

8

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<p>Funny how I stood and sang that same hymn and it didn’t bother me at all even though it was not from my faith. This type of assembly is very unusual at Yale and you will not see another one until you graduate. You will also be amongst classmates very accepting of different religions or lack thereof. Don’t let this make you doubt that you will be comfortable as an atheist at this secular university.</p>

9

<p>As others have noted, this is the only time you will encounter this until you graduate, and I would also note that you weren’t really required to sing the hymn (although certainly good manners required you to rise).</p>

<p>One way to look at this positively–it’s a reminder that a group of Christian clergymen created a university that grew into the institution that you now attend. Think of it as a nod to them.</p>

10

<p>For God, for country and for yale. Don’t forget Yale’s roots.</p>

11

<p>Ha! It’s a good thing you didn’t encounter the original version of the hymn: </p>

<p>God of our fathers, whose almighty hand
Leads forth in beauty all the starry band . . . .</p>

<p>I grew up, as an outsider, listening to, and ultimately singing that one (and many others). It’s a beautiful lyric and sentiment. It isn’t universal, but it is a part of Yale’s tradition. It won’t kill you to notice how it excludes you to some extent, just don’t fail to notice the many ways in which you are not excluded by Yale. It’s a complex world, and things aren’t simple or consistent all of the time. Get used to it, and learn how to make it work for you!</p>

12

<p>

As a country whose citizens are mostly Christians, I think there are at least 50 percents of people in this country who are very tolerant of other people’s religion and/or different value systems. (Disclaimer: I myself am not a very religious person.) Maybe you are young and naive and could not understand yet how the real world works but you will. It takes time for anybody to learn this little by little through life experiences, likely not through studying or schooling.</p>

<p>BTW, just curious, are you from Europe?</p>

13

<p>I think probably a number of students were surprised by this, including Americans, especially if they came from public schools in many parts of the country. But because Yale is a private institution, it can continue this tradition if it chooses to do so. As others have noted, it doesn’t at all mean that the Yale environment is intolerant. It’s extremely tolerant.</p>