Yale vs wharton

Colleges & Universities Yale University
81

<p>When you go almost anywhere in the world and say you went to an ivy league, where do people ask? Harvard and Yale. And occasionally Princeton – wheres UPenn in this mix? People get it confused with Penn State almost every time. </p>

<p>And, since were being so “fact of the matter,” how about you dont use generalizations like “ALL the aspiring business men in these country dream of getting a Wharton or Harvard or Stanford MBA” (btw, check your grammar about “these country”)</p>

<p>As well, are you really going to begin to argue the alumni connections between Penn and Yale? Or even Wharton and Yale. Sure, you got Warren Buffett and DTrump as alumni, but… oh, wait, Yale has EVERYONE ELSE. </p>

<p>It seems as if you equate fame with power, just because DTrump and Buffett are two of most well known billionaires in the world (and, that name dropping of Bill Gates was clever too) it certainly doesnt mean that they have the most influence or strongest connections in the world of business. </p>

<p>Take a look at Yales connections - they are globally spread and involve many of the worlds most influential business people. And, if you want to name drop, they are the university of choice it seems (or HYP in general… still no Penn?? Weird) for the Vanderbilts, the Whitneys, etc.</p>

<p>Last I checked, aspiring business men aspire to Harvard and Yale, and only a select few idolize Wharton. Whartons alumni network may be larger in pure size, but Yale simple cannot be beaten by some number. As you said, everyone seems to do business with a Whartonite at one point in their lives… kind of shows how keen Whartonites are to work with Yalies…</p>

82

<p>platosrepublic- (or kafkareborn, I mean, why do you spend so much time posting under two cover names on the Yale forum???)</p>

<p>1) Make no mistake about it. I am very happy to have a Wharton MBA, but for influential people abroad, the holy grail is a Harvard, or maybe a Stanford, MBA. Wharton (as well as Columbia, Chicago and Sloan) are respected afterthoughts, known and targeted by a smaller group of people, and seen as a second-best result in the MBA admissions process.</p>

<p>2) On the undergraduate level, foreign businessmen people view an Oxbridge or a Harvard/Yale degree as the ultimate mark of educational cachet (with Yale a tiny notch below; and yes, ouch, that hurts to type that as a Yale BA). Stanford is rising fast, particularly in Asia. (Interestingly enough, Yale has connections in China that date to 1870, and Yale is extremely popular as destination; Yale’s President Levin is an educational rock star in the Chinese media). Penn/Wharton does NOT enjoy the same prominence at all.</p>

<p>3) In dealing with many foreign clients as someone involved in emerging markets finance, the Yale connection has helped MUCH than my Wharton MBA connection. Clients seem much more impressed being taken to the classy Yale Club for drinks and looking at the pictures of Clinton on the wall or Bush senior playing baseball than when I take them to the Marriottesque “renovated” Penn Club. Blecccccchhhhh!</p>

<p>4) Do you honestly look up to Donald Trump as an inspiration? A creepy, arrogant guy who screws over people routinely who just inherited his Daddy’s real estate business, has gone bankrupt more than once – his casinos are now bankrupts YET AGAIN? And Buffett often talks about his time at Columbia studying under his heroes Graham and Dodd, but I never hear him say anything about Wharton; he fled the darn place, as far as I remember. </p>

<p>5) If Penn/Wharton produce so many incredibly successful business people, and has the strength of its Wharton alums to manage its funds, how did it end up so relatively poor compared to Yale and Harvard??? Even with last year’s cataclysm, Yale has almost 3 times the endowment that all of Penn has, and it has an alumni network about half as big!!! On a per capita basis, Yale has SIX times the wealth that Penn has! The only explanations I can see are 1) Penn people aren’t as successful as Yale people, so can’t give as much, or 2) Penn people are as successful or more successful than Yalies, but are so preternaturally cheap or so turned off by their experience they keep their purses shut, or 3) Penn people are successful and give a lot to their beloved alma mater, but their “hot shot” Wharton money mangers screw up the long term returns. You decide!</p>

83

<p>Just food for thought, search Wharton vs Harvard and look at the unbiased responses. It looks like it is 50/50 and yet some people here say that Yale is obviously a better choice than Wharton? hmmmm…</p>

84

<p>By the way, Warren Buffet went to the Columbia Business School. I did not work with Chinese farmers, but investment bankers and CEOs at the top firms in Hong Kong as well as Beijing, London, NYC, etc… And the Yale degree always opened doors. Certainly, Wharton has a better business school than Yale’s SOM, but if you are talking about the undergraduate experience, it’s a totally different story. You will do fine either way. But you may regret deeply later in life if you give up the chance to experience Yale. If you have the chance to get an MBA later, you can always go to Wharton then & you will have practically an unbeatable resume.</p>

85

<p>@metro and mancune, noone is saying that Yale won’t open doors, just that Wharton will open more (especially abroad). Do consider that many firms only offer OCR to Harvard, Wharton, INSEAD, etc. Also, no one is denying here that Yale probably offers a better liberal arts education than Penn. That said, no one seriously denies (especially foreign businessmen) that Wharton trumps Yale in business education. </p>

<p>Why are we even comparing university achievements anyways? It should really be about the student body. Otherwise, I could boast that Penn is the first university in the United States, Penn produced more historically important figures (just think of whose statue you see all over campus), Philadelphia is a major city whereas New Haven is… a town? Not to offend but to me it seems like you’re a foreigner and I can tell you for a fact that the ‘foreign businessmen’ you’ll usually be dealing with are not the ones calling the shots. </p>

<p>It’s also great to know that Yale’s greatest impact on the world was forever altering the political landscape by royally screwing America with their most prominent alumnus who foreign leaders even refer to as Satan. </p>

<p>Frankly, none of this even matters, let’s keep discussion to the students and opportunities shall we?</p>

<p>It’s also important to separate business from finance here. If you’re conducting business, that’s pure people skills. If you’re investing, that’s a completely different skillset (and please don’t bring up ibd, no one takes modelling seriously there).</p>

86

<p>So in terms of undergraduate studies, just the name “Yale” gives employers/others a better impression? Some say the name Wharton opens more doors, but others say Yale in terms of global job opportunities. I don’t think the choice between the two is obvious.</p>

87

<p>Yale opens EVERY door. Wharton opens select business world doors. both have the same quality of education, but Yale is more of a brand, done and done. </p>

<p>It would be like asking if someone has heard of Harry Rosen vs Giorgio Armani for mens suits. Both are amazing quality and both are great style, but Armani the world recognized brand. Now, if you had the choice, would you choose Armani or Rosen? Armani wins 95% of the time.</p>

<p>EDIT:</p>

<p>If youre a girl, just take suits and change it to dresses aha, both companies do both. :P</p>

88

<p>`1a1, look at the Wharton career service reports (the link is all over the Penn page) you will see that Whartonites work all over the world. Some international firms (like Rothschild in the UK - aka another door closed to Yalies) recruit ONLY out of Wharton undergrad. Top PE firms and hedge funds, both nationally and internationally concentrate on getting Whartonites ahead of any other school at the undergraduate level. That’s concrete proof of a preference for Whartonites. </p>

<p>The Yalies cannot give you a single counter example. Whartonites have the best placement both internationally and domestically – that’s a fact. Yale’s MBA program is a bad joke.For a business education (which is really all international businessmen care about) -remember most of the rest of the world does not have liberal arts - everyone knows that Wharton blows Yale out of the water. These Yalies are blowing hot air. International firms are not stupid, they know the pecking order within the US and that applies outside it. Do you actually believe that businessmen in China or India would not have heard of Wharton? The best finance school in the world. One of the best business schools in the world ? One that they themselves sent their kids to (Mittal’s son in India, Ambani himself in India, Ruimin’s son in China) etc. </p>

<p>ALL know of Wharton and respect it above all others at the undergraduate level (which is why they sent their kids there). Wharton’s business alumni base outstrips Yale by a factor of 5. Ask anyone on Wall Street (who did not go to Yale) what the top tier target schools are and they will say Wharton and Harvard, then Princeton then somewhere down the line comes Yale. There is a reason that: Cohen, Asness, Buffett, Trump, Perelman, Taleb, Kashkari -the men that are shaping our world today, not the whitney’s and vanderbilt’s that shaped in 150 years ago are Whartonites. In the general world, (in political circles for instance) sure Yale is absolutely respected, but Wharton trumps Yale in terms of international reputation for those in business by FAR. Wharton’s way larger alumni base and further reach in all of these countries shows that to be true. No one, other than Yalies, would argue that Yale has better international representation in business circles.</p>

<p>You are confusing the attitudes of the general uneducated populous (who would probably have heard of Yale more than Wharton - but would probably have heard of neither) for the actual attitudes of the business community - they are not the same. Even in America, your average person walking down the street would probably think that a Yale MBA is superior to a Wharton MBA, but that does not reflect what people in the business community think at all. Yale’s MBA program is far far inferior and the people that need to know that, that have an effect on you, know that. No one who knew anything about the industry would choose Yale MBA over Wharton MBA, the views of uneducated fishermen don’t matter. I’ve spent 15 years in Asia, I can tell you as a fact that Wharton is way more respected than Yale in the business community in Asia.</p>

<p>Thatguy100, you are totally off the mark. I cannot believe you actually are trying to tell me that Warren Buffett does not have influence in the business world. He probably has more influence than anyone else. Anyone in the industry would agree, you obviously don’t know what you are talking about. Buffett left Wharton after three years only because his father lost his congress relelection campaign and he wanted to be closer to him - he is a Whartonite though (just as Bill Gates is a Harvardian) and he hosts meeting with Wharton kids every year. If you go to Wharton, it is likely that you will be able to meet him in person.</p>

<p>Go to Wharton, get a Harvard MBA. That’s unbeatable.</p>

89

<p>After being some time in these forums this is what I have gathered about the wharton vs hyp debate.</p>

<p>Academically, wharton and hyp are equally selective and all generally accept the same quality of students.
If you want to go to business for sure, wharton is the right choice, however, if you are not so sure hyp would be better becuase they have better liberal arts education, compared to penn’s cas (although penn is right on their heels).
Even though wharton is highly business focused, it does not limit your academic interests by allowing students to take almost 50% of their classes in any of penn’s departments.
Hyp have more name recognition than wharton, nevertheless, Wharton has more prestige in the business world (only paralleled by harvard)
Regarding recruiting, wharton places first followed closely by harvard, then princeton and yale.
Wharton has a more pre-prof and competitive atmosphere, whereas hyp are more intelectual and offer a more well-rounded experience.</p>

<p>Now, social life at penn is a good balance of fun/party and academics, whereas hyp is more intelectual and nerdy, the party scene doesnt compare (only yale/princeton kids say that their social scene is AMAZING, yet people from the outside who visit say the contrary. At penn no one denies it has a good social scene, although its kind of like the tallest midget)</p>

<p>Remember, this is not my personal opinion but what I have gathered in these forums. Feel free to add coments or to disagree</p>

90

<p>Is there a noticeable difference in advantage in getting to top grad schools (HSB, Wharton, Stanford GSB, Columbia) between Y and W? I can’t find any info that tells the breakdown of undergraduate colleges represented at these top grad schools.</p>

91

<p>There is no PRACTICAL difference in terms of grad school admissions.</p>

<p>This thread is insanely long for absolutely no reason! They are both great schools. Go to Penn if you ONLY want to study finance and don’t mind hanging out with competitive, pre-professional types. Go to Yale if you want to have a broader education (e.g. econ, not finance), love the res college system, and/or want to hang out with a greater diversity of people.</p>

<p>As for what school is “better” for finance or MBAs, to reiterate, there is NO PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE.</p>

92

<p>I’ve seen an actual breakdown of % admissions to top grad schools by class. I tried to google it and unfortunately couldn’t find it. Harvard was #1 on its own, Yale was #2 below Harvard but on its own, and from there most of the lower Ivies and upper non-Ivies were around equal, with Stanford and Princeton near the front of the pack, if I remember correctly.</p>

<p>Although that wouldn’t help you here–as the list counted Penn, not Wharton independently–there is a difference in getting into top graduate schools depending on where you go.</p>

<p>I say if you like Yale, go to Yale for undergraduate, get a well-rounded education and enjoy yourself, then go to Wharton for graduate. That way you don’t have to worry about undergrad/grad in the same place, and you get a top notch education in every sense of it–as well as great resources if halfway through your undergrad, you decide not to pursue business.</p>

<p>That’s my personal plan, only I can’t decide between Yale and Princeton :(</p>

93

<p>Msauce, why do you assume the OP wont enjoy himself at wharton?</p>

94

<p>the general consensus of these boards is that if you want business go to wharton, if you are not so sure you want to study business but might want to do that after graduation, go to priceton or harvard, yale comes last.</p>

95

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<p>Sorry but that’s just your opinion. I’d be surprised to find that you know the general consensus of this board in a mere 2 months of posting. An actual study on college preference found here:</p>

<p>[SSRN-A</a> Revealed Preference Ranking of U.S. Colleges and Universities by Christopher Avery, Mark Glickman, Caroline Hoxby, Andrew Metrick](<a href=“http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=601105#PaperDownload]SSRN-A”>http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=601105#PaperDownload)</p>

<p>shows that Yale is rated above Princeton in pretty much everything. This isn’t to say it’s a better school [because the differences in academics are negligible] but it is preferred more.</p>

96

<p>I think you missed the “if you are not so sure you want to study business but might want to do that after graduation” bit, as I said, Yale comes last.</p>

97

<p>I worked on a derivatives trading desk on Wall Street from 2004-2007 and have no direct affiliation to either Yale or Wharton/Penn so I think I can be unbiased.</p>

<p>For top hedge funds, private equity firms and elite desks like proprietary trading/AmSSG at Goldman Sachs, SAC Capital, AQR, Blackstone- going to Wharton will be a significant advantage over Yale. Billionaire alums in the industry include Dan Och, Stevie Cohen, Cliff Asness, Richard Perry, Raj Raj (MBA), Peter Briger (MBA) and possibly a few I can’t think of right now. Anil Ambani went to Penn and is worth about $40 billion. I believe his son is an undergrad. Interestingly, Aditya Mittal graduated from Wharton undergrad in 1996 and works for his dad who is currently worth $29 billion. </p>

<p>Yale is no slouch either, Eddie Lampert, Dinakar Singh, Steve Schwarzman, Sid Bass are all names that come to mind. Bob Rubin as well, before the Citi fiasco. I’m not counting dynastically rich people like Forest Mars (Yale). </p>

<p>For general investment banking/corporate finance/management consulting- I would suggest Yale over Wharton- Wharton is too competitve and too many people in the class apply to those jobs. Even though Wharton is a higher target than Yale for just about every bank (i.e. they take significantly more kids) an even higher ratio of kids apply to these jobs. If you add in smart students from CAS and SEAS that’s over 900-1000 resumes for 20-40 interview slots, which may result in 10 superdays and 5 offers. So slim odds. My guess at Yale College is probably around 400 resumes for 2-3 offers, so the odds are significantly better.</p>

<p>In terms of Nobel Prizes, yeah, Penn has had 10 in the past decade vs. about 8 at Yale, which is pretty even to most people. Interestingly, Penn has earned most of its Nobels in chemistry, physics and econ not medicine. But overall, Columbia destroys both schools, 94 Nobels at Columbia vs. 48 at Yale, 41 at Cornell, 32 at Princeton and 23 at Penn. Granted, you should look at recent Nobels because a prize in the 1920s is less relevant to the quality of research today.</p>

98

<p>cmburns-</p>

<p>For Yale, too, you forgot Wilbur Ross, probably the king of vulture investors; Ted Forstman, of Forstman Little, who practically invented LBO/PE game in the 80s along with KKR; Jim Chanos is currently the leading “bear” investor on the street; throw in Bob Prechter, who is fairly prominent, too. </p>

<p>I’m a Yale undergrad and a Wharton MBA and work at a hedge fund. There are plenty of Yalies around in prominent positions. As you said, on a relative basis, Yale undergrads do just fine. </p>

<p>As a Wharton MBA I have witnessed how large the Wharton network is, but I would add that it is not particularly tight. Wharton itself is large, impersonal and competitive, and Whartonians don’t reach out to help other Whartonians with the same degree of vigor other schools do. Anybody who has worked in finance for any time will tell you that Dartmouth has the most intense network in terms of people energetically helping each other over the course of their careers. There may be fewer Dartmouth grads on the street than Wharton grads, but they are intensely devoted to the Green.</p>

99

<p>Last bump.</p>

100

<p>I hope you’re coming to Yale! Not a lot anyone’s going to do to change your mind now. Hopefully you’re a fellow 2014er.</p>