Year in Iraq = $180K Tax-free. Plz advise

Parent Cafe
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<p>I thank everyone for their input and I would like to hear/read more about what you think.</p>

<p>“I guess I would have to ask myself is 180k worth the increased probability of waking up Dead?”</p>

<p>A very dear person to me died “unexpectedly” at 13 due to a mild health condition. One moment he was chasing a ball with a big smile, 3 seconds later he was gone. Mortality is not a “controlled risk”. It’s never predictable.</p>

<p>At first I was concerned about safety. But I figured I’ve done things more hazardous than being a in Iraq, so why the fear.</p>

<p>I thought these quotes are relevant</p>

<p>“There is no security on this earth. Only opportunity.” Douglas MacArthur</p>

<p>“Too many people are thinking of security instead of opportunity. They seem to be more afraid of life than death.” James F. Bymes</p>

<p>If you agree or disagree please post, this is very important.</p>

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<p>Somehow I doubt that the government is trying to hire private linguists due to a shortage of heterosexual linguists in the military. I think it is much more likely that the military decided years ago to spend their funds on other things than linguists. For example, the Air Force is laying off 40,000 people in an attempt to fund the purchase of new aircraft and pay for upgrades to current aircraft. I also doubt that there are a huge number of linguists in the approximately 1,500 people separated from the military for homosexuality per year. But alas, we digress from the topic…</p>

<p>I reccomend getting everything in writing before you agree! (and read the fine print!)</p>

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<p>“Mortality is not a “controlled risk”. It’s never predictable.”</p>

<p>In some ways it is, remember it’s location, location, location. For example there is always a risk a soldier might die back in the states during a training exercise and then there’s the risk of actual combat. Which activity carries more risk? </p>

<p>Your logic is a bit flawed, but if you need the money, you need the money. Absolutely no need to justify it to anybody but yourself.</p>

<p>If the risk were the same, would the pay be what it is? Are these just really, really neat guys offering the money? :)</p>

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<p>As someone else said, don’t do it if you have kids…I would add- don’t do it if you have kids or a loving spouse, loving parents, or other family that care about you and you care about. Are you that desperate for the money?</p>

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<p>I had a friend who went to Iraq to serve on the Civil Affairs side of the Army. He had done basic service jobs until his early 30s and had been trying to write the Great American Novel. Not much worked out. Then he decided to go to Iraq. I was against it generally, as I have always viewed the war as a stupid misadventure that will have cost us dearly for dubious gains – and I would never had wanted to directly involve myself in this war’s senselessness. He came back on a much better path in life, though. He had been stationed in the Green Zone, and didn’t have to leave it all that much apparently. I was so relieved he made it back without injury.</p>

<p>So I would weigh the money against the risk, as you have been doing. But I would also put together a plan for what you would do after the fact. Are you going to come back and buy a house? Go to school? How much will you need to do what you need to do to accomplish your goals?</p>

<p>People noted two facts: 1) The tax credit for overseas work will not get you all this money tax free. I used to contract people to work overseas for US govt. contractors and the tax credit then was in the the mid-70K range. The person who said it was 85K has it right, I would assume. And remember, if they provide housing for you and that is valued at 50K, you only get a break on 35K. The rest is taxeable. OH, and by the way, make sure they aren’t including the housing stipend as part of the that 180K that you are getting “tax free.” If so, it could turn out your pay would only be, let’s say 90K for example. 2) The other person who said to check your contract had it spectacularly right. If they are offering you “150K tax free” and you find out they’ve scammed you with all these charges they’re assuming you won’t investigate, I would negotiate with them and tell them you’re expecting 180K clear of housing, taxes, moving, transportation, and certain insurance charges. That’s a lot clearer than “tax free.” And since our tax dollars are getting spent so profligately by the “fiscally responsible” Bush Administration, I would not hesitate to hold them to their own words. They probably have money to burn. I would bite the bullet and have an attorney review it, if you don’t understand some of what they are offering. There must be government contract specialists in the DC/Pentagon area who specialize at this. Don’t assume that they’ll take care of you and look after your interests. There are lots of stories of folks getting overseas and finding out that some perk they expected wasn’t in their contract – or that they had to pay for something out of pocket they had been told would be covered.</p>

<p>Recognize that this experience is very likely to change you – either for the good or for the bad or both. I’ve never talked to people who have lived overseas for any length of time and not been somewhat affected by it. For most, it’s enrichening. But if it involves death to others close to you or injury to yourself or others around you, it could mark a very dark turning point for you. With these things said, use what you gain from it to change your life circumstances when you come back.</p>

<p>I worked overseas once on a project in a rural part of a Muslim nation – only for 6 weeks, but it felt like 6 months or a year. I was bunked up with 6 or 7 other guys. There was nothing to do at nights other than sit around talking or reading. The facilities we lived in were so-so. In effect, all I was doing was working, working, workingg. People on our team didn’t get along, so there was stress and argument that made it tough. Figure out in advance how long you will contract for initially, how long you might want to extend before you go assuming you feel safe enough and can deal with it (maybe you want to do a second year month-to-month for instance), and have in place a plan for using that money to invest in getting out of your rut of no education or degree that leads you vulnerable to such risky propositions.</p>

<p>Hell, if you are going to be stuck inside at nights for the next 700 days, take a few GRE or SAT prep books along and get yourself ready to go back to school.</p>

<p>Regarding the no security, only opportunity kinds of quotes by MacArthur, for me those kinds of quotes would have more poignancy if you were doing something that was heroic or that would really cause you to grow. What you are proposing doing is going to Iraq to be a grunt for money – make no mistake about it – and the measure of whether it was worth it in my opinion (since you asked it of us) would be 1) do you seize the opportunities to learn what you can while you are there – culturally, linguistically, business-wise, etc.? 2) do you take the money you make over there and invest it in your betterment or do you blow it on fancy cars or drugs when you get back? 3) Do you come back without a leg or brain-damaged from an IED? You can work toward the first two and try to make as educated a guess as possible about the likelihood of something bad regarding the third.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>We noticed that we hadn’t seen our neighbor for a while so we asked his wife about him. She said that he had finally gotten a job he’d been trying to get for years: Delivering mail…in Bagdad! She added, “The pay is really good.”</p>

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<p>You’re all acting as though it’s a given he’ll die in Iraq - I know nothing about the safety situation, it could be just a bit more uncertain than a job in Trenton or Detroit would be, how are you all such experts?</p>

<p>You keep finding points to counter the reasons not to go, OP. I think it could be an amazing adventure. Contact people who have done similar things, and ask about safety precautions, and good luck.</p>

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<p>He may not die in Iraq but he is doing something very dangerous for money. Money is not that important, in my humble opinion.</p>

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<p>Screw the money, go for the adventure!</p>

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<p>beprepn,
I had lunch today with a man whose son died in Iraq. I didn’t know it and I asked about the dog tags around his neck. His son died about a year ago and he almost started crying in relating the story to me.
That kind of adventure I can skip any time.</p>

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<p>Well, I have some experience I can add to the table. I went to the Defense Language Institute which is one of the primary places the military will send Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airmen to become linguists. People need to understand that you can’t just quickly create a linguist especially for the most difficult languages such as Arabic. The Arabic course is a year and a half and that is in addition to basic training and mandatory military occupational specialty training. </p>

<p>There is a shortage of linguists and it isn’t because a few homosexual’s were chaptered out of the Army (or any other service). The reason is because learning a language is difficult and not everyone has the necessary skill to pull it off. Even after you graduate the course it takes time for one to practice enough to be considered “fluent.” </p>

<p>While I was at DLI I was good friends with approximately three homosexual individuals and two out of those three individuals chose to leave the Army voluntarily because they felt it wasn’t the right decision. They used their homosexuality as a basis for their request to leave the military - I know because I helped them draft their requests. </p>

<p>The Army still exists on a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Homosexuals don’t get kicked out because they are homosexual - they leave because they no longer want to uphold their commitment of not practicing homosexual activity while serving or they’re caught violating this commitment. Now whether or not a homosexual person should be told they can not practice their sexual desires while serving is whole different issue but posts like CGM’s imply that gays are being kicked out left and right involuntarily for no reason at all when that simply isn’t the case. </p>

<p>We would be hiring contractors regardless because the Army cannot train soldiers in a new language fast enough due of a shortage of people capable of learning and the time it takes to teach an adult a new language. FYI, I learned Pashto, an Afghan language and the course was one year.</p>

<p>As to the OP, if you like adventure go for it. As a CAT II you won’t be in harm’s way as much (although you’re still in a war zone so don’t go into it naively). The money is good and the experience is like none other - you will learn new things that other people can only sit around and hypothetically discuss.</p>

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<p>BedHead, I’m “studying” your post with a pencil and paper in my hand. Thank you.</p>

<p>SmileDarling, can you tell me more about the typical duties of a CAT II linguist? How safe/unsafe you think it is?</p>

<p>I suspect they require CAT Is (those with green cards and are fluent in the Iraqi dialect) to do the combat-related work: patrol, raids, interrogation…etc? And would I be wrong if I assume that CAT II perform mostly office work (DOCEX…etc)? Will a CAT II be required to leave the military base to perform work?</p>

<p>Any input is important to me and I’m interested in anything you people say.</p>

<p>Everyone’s participation is genuinely appreciated, especially those with opposing views. I love this forum and the great people who frequent it. I started the thread thinking that I really don’t want to throw myself in danger’s way and I was looking for reasons to steer myself away from this work–I was afraid.</p>

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<p>Hi Sebha, </p>

<p>Unfortunately there aren’t really any typical duties. You may or may not be required to leave base. I don’t know what the contract is like but if you really feel what you aren’t doing is safe you can ask to be assigned to a different area or possibly just quit. You may want to clarify that though. You will have some measure of control over what you’re willing to do - you will still be a civilian after all.</p>

<p>I worked with many CAT I and CAT II linguists when I was overseas and most of them were happy with their jobs and living conditions (you will most likely be living less comfortably than you do now though).</p>

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<p>Don’t be stupid. It’s just the chances are manifestly greater of someone dying – or coming back maimed – and this should be factored into any advice anyone offers. Wouldn’t you agree that if one goes to a war zone the chances of dying are generally greater than if one stays in the US? No matter what level of random violence prevalent in Trenton or Detroit, it’s a given more Americans are getting brain-damaged through explosive devices or killed or otherwise maimed by them in Iraq than in Michigan or NJ and anyway the question wasn’t choose between hanging around the streets of Detroit or go to Iraq for a year…</p>

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<p>I agree it could be an amazing adventure, but IMO this should be weighed against the risks of it turning out to be a horrifying misadventure with lifelong bad consequences and how the value of compensation for the risks taken should be maximized…</p>

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<p>And then there’s this: has the OP thought about how much worrying his family members might do? That’s certainly no reason to not to it per se, but if you, OP, follow and communicate a process of weighing the risks sensibly – having done your homework and solid thinking – then your decision to go will probably be more defensible and put your family more at ease. And also, if anything does happen to you, it will relieve them of guilt of feeling like they could have and should have tried to dissuade you from going…</p>

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<p>“Don’t be stupid. It’s just the chances are manifestly greater of someone dying – or coming back maimed – and this should be factored into any advice anyone offers. Wouldn’t you agree that if one goes to a war zone the chances of dying are generally greater than if one stays in the US? No matter what level of random violence prevalent in Trenton or Detroit, it’s a given more Americans are getting brain-damaged through explosive devices or killed or otherwise maimed by them in Iraq than in Michigan or NJ and anyway the question wasn’t choose between hanging around the streets of Detroit or go to Iraq for a year…”</p>

<p>I don’t think it is stupid to question why people seemed to attack OP, suggest OP doesn’t care about his life, etc etc etc…simply for considering this option. I don’t know what the safety precautions will be there, and neither do the rest of you. Yes, it will likely be much more dangerous, but I have no idea what their evacuation policies, security systems, insurance coverage, and numerous other factors consist of. Don’t call me stupid for asking the OP to look into these factors and consider the fact that it might not be significantly more dangerous than a hundred things someone could do in the United States (though everything carries risks, this one may be deemed a reasonably low one by the OP, and enough for him to go for it…no, that doesn’t make him money hungry, maybe it just means that, after all is said and done, he won’t want to live in fear.) I would never advocate that someone take a huge risk that they don’t feel comfortable with…which is why I suggested he look into it further. What, exactly, was stupid about that?</p>

<p>Of course OP should weigh the potential benefits and risks, where did I ever imply or state otherwise??</p>

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<p>I don’t think your opinion was stupid unregisterd. There are plenty of risky adventures within the states. Even the freeway is a dangerous place with 16 years old driving around drunk on a Friday night. Before I get attacked for this, please know that I am NOT comparing this with Iraq. I’m just saying that there is risk everywhere and it is up to individuals to assess the degree of such risks and decide what is and isn’t acceptable to them.</p>

<p>There have been hundreds of thousands of soldiers in Iraq over the past five years and there have been a significant number of deaths but until you break it down (accident, IED, shootings, natural), weigh it against the length of time soldiers have been in Iraq and take into account all sorts of others variables you can’t truly say that one adventure is more dangerous than another. There are plenty of people who served three tours in Iraq (my boyfriend for one example) who came home unscathed. The risks are there and they are great but it is not a given that you be injured or die in Iraq if you take a contracting job. </p>

<p>Like unregistered said, “Weigh your options.”</p>

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<p>Uh, I don’t really think myself, SD, or unregistered are in real disagreement about what the OP needs to do. My post could be summarized as “weigh the pro’s and con’s and make sure you know both what you are signing on for (literally, the precise terms of the contract) and what you are getting into (in broad terms, personally and in terms of risks and rewards).” I don’t think this is so very different from “weigh your options.” </p>

<p>What I objected to was the silly logic that say Detroit is as dangerous as most of Iraq, so why would you worry…Clearly we’ve had tens of thousands of soldiers in Iraq over a long period of time and “only” a few thousand have been killed. The numbers game isn’t that bad, apparently, though it’s unclear to me what risks generally contractors like the OP would actually face relative to those faced by the soldiers. The fact is, if I could be all knowing, I am sure there are vast regions in Iraq I’d rather be for a period of time than certain street blocks in Detroit. It doesn’t change the reality that, all else being equal, you’re safer in a country not at war than one at war.</p>

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<p>I have not seen any figures on how many private contractors have been killed in Iraq. According to one report, we have more civilians working for us there than US soldiers, so I would imagine casualties are pretty high, but they go unreported in the media.</p>

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<p>“What I objected to was the silly logic that say Detroit is as dangerous as most of Iraq, so why would you worry…Clearly we’ve had tens of thousands of soldiers in Iraq over a long period of time and “only” a few thousand have been killed. The numbers game isn’t that bad, apparently, though it’s unclear to me what risks generally contractors like the OP would actually face relative to those faced by the soldiers.”</p>

<p>I didn’t say that Detroit is as dangerous as Iraq (in fact, I never once compared all of Detroit to all of Iraq, because that would be ludicrous). Of course Detroit is safer, overall, than Iraq. I said that, depending on where this job is, and what the safety protocol is, OP may be only a bit more at risk than he would be in parts of Detroit (and perhaps other US parts of certain U.S. cities). Please read my posts carefully before calling me stupid. Never having been to Iraq myself, I can’t really say, but I would bet that there are areas that are little more dangerous that parts of the States. I would also bet that there are Americans working in Iraq who feel (and perhaps are) very safe. Yes, it is a war zone. No, I myself would not go there. Does that mean that the OP doesn’t value his own life, simply because he is musing over the possibility? No, that’s complete hogwash.</p>

<p>“The fact is, if I could be all knowing, I am sure there are vast regions in Iraq I’d rather be for a period of time than certain street blocks in Detroit. It doesn’t change the reality that, all else being equal, you’re safer in a country not at war than one at war”</p>

<p>That’s exactly what I was saying, paraphrased. I don’t really understand why you felt the need to attack my post, then.</p>

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<p>Well, in my opinion, you belittled people – by questioning our status as so-called experts – who were making more or less sensible points about weighing the risks. In essence, you were attacking our posts.</p>

<p>Also, your statement and mine are really quite different, if you pick them apart. And yours were used to back up a rather belittling tone…</p>

<p>Finally, you should know, if you don’t already, that there is a lot of disinformation regarding the safety situation in Iraq to justify a disastrously stupid decision to invade the country. Part of my response was because I smelled a whiff of this, even though it’s mostly irrelevant to what the OP wanted to know. Here’s more information on the situation in Iraq from a host of army captains:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/15/AR2007101500841.html?nav=hcmodule[/url]”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/15/AR2007101500841.html?nav=hcmodule&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Ultimately, you and I see it largely the same way, but I still take exception with how you couched your original statement. Sorry if I offended.</p>