Years ago PSU was consistently around 50 in the rankings of national universities. Now it's 77th. What happened?

As a PSU alum from many years ago I remember always checking the US News rankings and PSU was consistently around 50. Now it’s 77th. Pretty disappointing…especially in the ranking obsessed environment we’re in for college admissions.

Frankly, there isn’t a lot of difference between 50 and 77 considering there are about 3000 colleges.

9 Likes

Schools that cared more about rigging a specious system passed it by. Don’t lose any sleep. It hasn’t slipped. Rankings just try to make a zero sum game out of something that’s far from it.

13 Likes

As a general answer, I would agree rankings impose zero-sum logic on a situation that isn’t zero-sum. And I think a lot of US research universities have gotten “better” in the sense of deeper and broader research activities at a globally-significant level, and so Penn State could have both done that itself but is also part of a larger set of research universities also doing that.

I also think more of the most desirable applicants these days are looking for a city or near-city college, particularly as we reach cohorts actually born long after the urban crime wave of the 1980s/early-90s. State College is a very classic college town located strategically in the middle of the state, but in Pennsylvania that means being located far from the major urban centers of the state.

I think that is helping universities like, say, Pitt compete more effectively for students with Penn State these days. At one point, it would have sounded like a joke to say an urban location in Pittsburgh was a competitive advantage. But among the latest cohorts of college applicants, that is not a joke at all anymore.

But again, that doesn’t mean Penn State became less desirable. It more just means Pitt might have become more desirable, at least to some students.

10 Likes

Net cost after financial aid, social mobility, and %Pell Grants are now factored in, and Penn State does terrible on those criteria.

7 Likes

This is my feeling. It just doesn’t matter.

On the one hand rankings are very subjective. There are a lot of very good universities (hundreds of them) and when comparing any two universities there will be a huge number of small differences, and maybe some bigger differences. One school might be better for you, a different school might be better for me, and a third school might be better for someone else.

Also, rankings change over time, for reasons that probably mean nothing at all to you or to me.

2 Likes

You’ll get a different ranking from Forbes, WSJ, TES, and so forth. My old saying is that I like whichever ranking places my kids’ schools the highest.

This is not a problem so don’t worry. PSU has great name recognition.

5 Likes

Right on! The rankings are silly - should only be looked at for fun. If they give you heartburn, ignore!

What matters for large research universities: The Association of American Universities is the gold standard for high-level research schools. It only has 71 members, and schools are occasionally dropped or added. Penn State is one of them.

They’re fine.

1 Like

PSU offers limited financial aid, even for PA residents. They boast about the millions in donations from alumni but that mostly goes to athletics, not student aid.

3 Likes

Hello @TomSrOfBoston , its been awhile. I’m back on CC for my 4th kid. :slight_smile:

I think PSU is a fantastic state school (sans merit money), and I think the rankings aren’t reliable.

Love the college town/urban point made earlier. Makes sense to me, but some students do prefer rural or college town setting. Wondering if applications to PSU are skyrocketing post Covid like the University of Pittsburgh?

1 Like

Let’s look! I didn’t actually know the answer in advance of this . . . .

Back in 2020-21 (oldest CDS PSU makes easily available, but this class at least applied pre-COVID, but the enrolled/yield numbers may be wonky), main campus for both:

PSU 73861 applications, 40031 accepted (54.2%), 8465 enrolled (21.1%)
Pitt 32549 applications, 20791 accepted (63.9%), 4230 enrolled (20.3%)

In the latest (2022-23) CDS:

PSU 85784 applications (+16.1% over 20-21), 47360 accepted (55.2%), 9216 enrolled (19.5%)
Pitt 53072 applications (+63.1% over 20-21), 26079 accepted (49.1%), 4390 enrolled (16.8%)

OK, so that’s interesting. Applications surged way more at Pitt. Pitt’s raw acceptance rate therefore dropped a lot, whereas PSU’s is actually up a bit. But yields are down at both, and indeed Pitt’s yield is down even more.

This is consistent with something I often hear discussed in my circles, namely that Pitt has become a very popular “safety”/“likely” choice, and not just in Pennsylvania. Again, that is tied to it being perceived as an up-and-coming research university (which is not so unique), having an honors college and some merit programs (again not so unique), and it having a central location in a nice, decent-sized city (maybe more of a distinguishing factor).

2 Likes

Thanks for this @niceunparticularman ! I am a Pitt grad, 3 of 4 kids so far went there, and I’m all over the Pitt threads. This was cool to see.

1 Like

Hail to Pitt!

1 Like

However, some students cannot afford to attend college residentially (versus as commuter students), and being in a remote rural area reduces the number of students who can commute there, and PSU financial aid generally has a poor reputation and would not be expected to cover residential costs to attend for the majority who are not in commuting range. The two other large CSHE universities (Pitt and Temple) are in the state’s major metro areas, giving lots of students a commute option there.

3 Likes

Part of the problem is that PSU is not a very good deal tuition-wise even for PA residents as the whole state-affiliated structure of the school leads to low funding from the state. My son who is interested in Computer Science and Engineering is also applying to Purdue along with several universities in the Netherlands among other places. Surprisingly, if he ends up at Purdue, the cost for an out of state student there is about the same as in-state for Penn State and if he ends up in the Netherlands, it will cost a good bit less than sending him to Penn State (or Pitt), even accounting for additional travel expenses as tuition in the Netherlands in very cheap even for foreign students and there are numerous great universities there.

2 Likes
  1. rankings switch criteria all the time so comparing year to year isn’t really apples to apples. They used measure different things in the past and/or weighted existing ones differently.
  2. 50 to 77th isn’t really meaningfully different
  3. some schools have decided to “play” the system an intense way
2 Likes

I think that most every school tries hard to play the system and do everything they can to boost their rankings although some are better at it than others. Also, some schools actually really do get better or worse academically compared to their peers due to various factors over time.

They all play to a degree of course, some play a lot harder than others. There is definitely a range. e.g. Reed vs. Northeastern :wink: or even ASU etc. ASU/U of AZ could be smaller, and more selective and have higher rankings I bet. However, that isn’t their philosphy.

2 Likes

Just found this thread, I have a junior at Pitt and my HS senior will likely go to PSU (I grew up in PA but live in MD now unfortunately). I will say that for pre-meds, Pitt is an excellent choice. Having the world class UPMC nearby has been a huge advantage, as she and her friends have lab jobs and internships that will look great on med and grad school applications. Universities that have their med schools on different campuses can’t offer the same opportunities to undergrads.

3 Likes

Yes, the sheer density of experience opportunities right in the same area as Pitt is a huge selling point in their favor among pre-med kids we know.

3 Likes