"You can teach an actor to sing, but not a singer how to act" - HS MT question

College Majors Musical Theater Majors
1

<p>The other day I was talking to a friend who told me “You know what they say - you can teach an actor to sing, but you can’t teach a singer to act”. Is this true? It makes me kind of sad because I’ve always been a singer. I kind of always thought of this as the other way around.</p>

<p>In middle school, I participated in musical theatre at school, and I got pretty good roles - I would at least get decent solos in each show, and I always got a callback. Last year, as a HS Freshman, I did not get a callback despite a strong vocal audition. I wasn’t told of it at the time last year, but apparently my acting audition was really bad. I don’t know exactly what it was, but I’m afraid to ask because I don’t know if the school director would remember last year. Plus auditions are at the beginning of next week. I just found out yesterday some things that lead me to believe my audition was really bad. </p>

<p>I pick up everything pretty fast, and I take dance, so I guess my main weak point would be theatre. I used to go to acting school up to third grade, but I guess not many people suggest that particular place. I know that I don’t have time before this first audition, but I think I can get a small ensemble role at least. I was wondering if musical theatre people had tips on how to do well in these types of auditions. And what can I do to get better at acting in general? I don’t understand how people figure it out, I guess. I never thought I was bad at acting until now. How important is acting compared to singing/music anyways in musical theatre? Most of the kids at my school tell me that you should focus on your monologue the most because if you can act well, you’ll get in regardless of singing. Is this good advice? Do I have any hope, or is what they say true and I should just stick to singing?</p>

2

<p>I personally think there is both talent and skill involved. Talent is something people are born with and skills are developed with good coaching and lots of hard work. It takes both to be a brilliant, phenomenal true genius, but most successful artists aren’t that, they are successful because of whatever characteristics they have that people find appealing, and a good bit of luck. In addition to their ability.</p>

<p>You are basing the notion that you don’t have any inborn talent on rumours you are hearing about one single audition. It could be what you are hearing is false; it could be you did have a big stinky audition that day, from what I can tell this is something everyone has from day to day.</p>

<p>It could be that someone else at the audition did just as well vocally but they just fit the director’s idea of the role better. </p>

<p>Unless you can find out exactly why you didn’t get the role I wouldn’t be so quick to just write off your potential forever. I wonder how many people who ended up doing very well heard that they had no talent. </p>

<p>Not having ever seen you, none of us can tell you what we think, but I’m sure there must be some people who know you and your work who could give you a trained and objective review of your acting potential.</p>

<p>You know of course that just like everyone else, your chances of huge fame in this business are laughably small but that’s not why you are pursuing it, right? You are doing it because you LOVE it and don’t want to be anywhere else but on stage, right?</p>

<p>So don’t accept this one rejection that you don’t even know for absolute certain had to do with your talent, determine your entire life course. And if you did impress the director as needing a lot of work on something - then start working on it.</p>

<p>My daughter has always been an actor who sang, by the way, and when she discovered how far behind she was in her vocal ability, she ramped up her efforts and has improved tenfold this past summer and fall. Her voice is barely recognizable. It was always pretty, but she had so many technical problems, and some of them are completely gone now and others are waaay better. So I don’t necessarily believe you can’t teach an actor to sing.
Maybe some, but not all. I think it’s probably the same way in reverse.</p>

3

<p>As far as how to get better - like anything else - coaching, training. Watch movies and plays and pay attention to the brilliant ones. And there are books on the topic. And there are myriad different acting “methods” or schools of thought on how to do it, and it could be that some work better for you than others.</p>

<p>I would think the thing to do would be to just relax and do the best you can on your audition, without talking to the director about it first if you are thinking that will taint it for you. I have no idea how anyone can second guess if he remembers it or not. But if you feel you do poorly again, then go straight to him afterwards and ask him if it is weakness in your audition (rather than not being physically suited for the part or something like that) and ask for an honest assessment of your weaknesses and ask his advice as to the best way to strengthen your skills.</p>

<p>You’ll get some real expert advice here I’m sure - I’m not an expert, just an artist and a mom who has been around the block with life in general. But that is what I would tell my own daughter.</p>

4

<p>~and I don’t know if the kids are giving you good advice or not as far as getting in solely on acting…I know that our resident experts here will know. But from what directors have told me, if the role requires a strong singer, they <em>are</em> going to want a certain amount of ability at least. A lead role with a song in every act, can’t be done by someone whose voice is going to give out, or who has serious technical issues. They can’t carry a show. What they want of course is a triple threat. I think every MT hopeful has their one strength, but this is why they train - to improve the other areas.</p>

<p>My daughter declined a lead role in a musical a few years back because she KNEW her voice would never make it. Well, not exactly declined, but the director loves her so much he was considering her for the role because in every other way she was great for it. But she KNEW she’d never ever get through it and told him “don’t put me in that role, I’m not ready”. She had only been training a couple months and though she had a pretty voice she really didn’t know how to use it at all.</p>

<p>3 years later after working hard to improve her voice, she has the lead in the high school musical and she’s doing just fine. Her voice isn’t even recognizable because of how hard she has worked, and after a long day of rehearsal, her voice is still in fine shape because she learned how to use it properly and not strain it. So you see I don’t buy that you can’t teach an actor to sing. I’m not sure how it goes the other way around but I wouldn’t quit my dream just yet on account of a saying, you know?</p>

5

<p>One more quick thing. :wink: Once more I would like to hear from the experts on this but I believe that out in the “real world” it’s very bad form to ask a professional director why you didn’t get a role (they’d spend their whole lives doing nothing but explaining things to the turned down hopefuls) but as we are talking about school here, it’s entirely different, and it is in fact their job to give you feedback exactly like this. Just be sure you do it in a professional and mature way - not for any reason other than wanting to know where you need to improve. I think teachers and directors can never be anything but more impressed with you if you display a mature and professional attitude, and if you have a reputation of wonderful work ethics and a great attitude and being an asset to the cast and everything else, I have heard that can definitely tip things in your favor, other factors being more or less equal. That’s something you absolutely <em>can</em> control - your attitude and reputation. :-)</p>

6

<p>Please don’t let what happens in high school define how you will view yourself and your potential for anything!! Pursue what you are interested in and learn from failure. Persistence and determination are some of the most important lessons you can learn. Plenty of people were not stars or even chosen for roles, sports teams, etc. and yet went on to extremely successful careers in their chosen endeavors!</p>

<p>I remember Rosie O’Donnell saying that her high school director told her she should not pursue theater. She ignored this guy and ended up with quite a successful career! And, of course, there is the famous story of Michael Jordan not making his high school basketball team! Guess he showed them!</p>

7

<p>Another thing to think about is whether you were the right “type” for any of the roles being cast (if the director needed a short, brown-haired woman to go with the tall, blond male lead already cast) it might not have anything to do with your talent per se, but with what was needed to make the play work for the audience (or what the director had in mind). Every school, every audition, heck, every show’s needs are different…and this is, sadly, a passion with a lot of “no’s” for every “yes”… As for how to get better…do look around and see if there is a reliable place to study acting, if that interests you, maybe consider auditioning for a summer acting program for high schoolers (most will start their audition processes soon). Many are based at colleges/universities, and you can study w/their full-time acting faculty.</p>

8

<p>I’m a student in hs, so take this as you will, but I find that (in school situations) directors remember more than you think. High school is a time to grow and learn, so the director who auditioned you last year may even have notes someplace. I highly recommend talking to him or her and asking, “what can I do this year to make my audition really strong?” I’m sure your director (who is also a high school teacher, right?) would be thrilled to help you.
On the issue, though: I strongly disagree. We all grow up singing and acting, but it’s not always easy to realize that the two go hand in hand. And I think it’s teachable in either direction. :slight_smile: Break a leg!</p>

9

<p>I agree with everything that has been said here. I also believe that, especially in high school, most directors would remember your audition. I think it is perfectly fine to approach that director, and rather than ask why you didn’t get a role last year, ask if he/she can suggest any specific ways you can improve your audition and what areas do you need to work on? Take what you have heard regarding your last audition with a grain of salt; these things definitely get twisted and, as we all know, sometimes kids in high school spread rumors, or inadvertently play the old “telephone” game. Most of all, don’t let this shake your confidence. Looking back, I would say that the thing most pre-college kids get the least training in is acting. MT kids routinely take voice and dance, but not so much acting. Granted, a good vocal performance must be “acted” and should “tell a story”. But I still don’t see many kids take actual acting classes. Make sure that when you prepare for your audition, you are thoroughly familiar with the story of whatever show you are doing, and are well acquainted with the characters; especially those you may end up reading for. Think about what drives the characters and what emotions they would be feeling. If you are not familiar with the show, do some internet research and get to know the plot and story. That way if you are asked to read or sing for a part, you will be familiar with what is going on with that character and might be able to grasp the emotions better. Don’t be imtimidated by the instructors as they are there to help you grow and become a better actor. BEst of luck!</p>

10

<p>Going off of takeitallin, I thought of something else: take what your friend said about last year with very little weight. The director would be beyond unprofessional to tell a student about another student’s audition, and it really isn’t your friend’s business, anyway.</p>

11

<p>Your “friend” is sadly misinformed. As has already been stated - there are skill sets for every discipline. The whole theory and purpose of the various “method” acting styles are precipitated on being able to teach acting. Whether it is Stanislavsky, Strasberg, Adler, or Meisner - all these technique were developed specifically to teach those could not act - to act! There are those, of course, with given levels of innate ability and/or talent - but that does not preclude what can be accomplished with hard work and personal commitment. Furthermore, a good singer in MT is a good actor. So, do not be discouraged, work at being a triple threat. That is the ticket to MT.</p>

12

<p>Well my friend wasn’t talking about my audition, but just a general statement. The thing that lead me to believe that my acting audition was bad was that he told another girl who is in most of the plays, and does a lot of acting stuff (she is a really nice girl and all) but he told her to help me with my monologue, which I just thought was weird. I must only need help from her if I was bad, right? I thought about it all yesterday, and it kind of bothered me and dashed my confidence. I saw last year’s musical, and I wasn’t sure where I would fit in it anyways, with my voice and appearance and all, so I figured that those were my reasons for not getting a callback, because I was told that I probably had the best vocal audition by the director. It really wasn’t until two days ago when my friend said this, and yesterday when the other girl told me that the director told her to help me with my monologue that I started to worry. </p>

<p>But instead of dwelling on the past, I’ll go into this audition with confidence, and I’ll definitely ask the director what I should work on. Thanks for all the advice! You all really helped me relax about this.</p>

13

<p>I would avoid reading anything into what happened last year. So much of casting is just a look or a feel- it may have absolutely nothing to do with your audition! The director must see something in you to bother with helping you. I would definitely take advantage of any help you can get. You do not have to use all of the advice given to you; but definitely listen to what critique is given you and decide what to use and what not to. And take the time to look at the characters in the show before your “tutoring session”; that way you will understand what it is they are telling you and you will be able to do your own take on it. Good luck!</p>

14

<p>The original post made me laugh. First, never trust an aphorism as truth. Second, I am certain I’m not alone in saying that the training isn’t easy for either, but there are many actors who can’t sing. Don’t care how much they train. Take faith, there are many roads to success, and none of them ever hinged on an off-hand comment by a friend.</p>

15

<p>You are drawing the conclusion that your acting skills are wanting based on a (alleged) remark from a director that he wanted someone to help you with your monologue?</p>

<p>OMG! Honey, EVERYONE needs help with their monologues! That you need help with monologues doesn’t mean you are a bad actor. I mean, it’s not like all there is to a monologue is just memorizing the lines. It’s not just a talent, it’s a skill, and skills have to be learned and practiced.</p>

<p>I agree with takeitallin that the thing most high school kids probably get the least amount of intense training in, is acting. That has certainly been my observation of my daughter’s experience and all of her “stage monkey” friends. Seems like training in voice and dance is a lot easier to come by.</p>

16

<p>ImThinking, I agree with all of the advice and comments you have received. When my daughter was in high school, acting was her weak point compared to singing and dance and she got all the roles she did in her school shows because of her voice. Now, after almost 3 1/2 years of college level training, there is a profound difference in her acting abilities. She has been cast in straight dramas as well as musicals and in the musicals, her ability to act the song has also grown tremendously. She and so many of her friends who we have watched over their college years clearly demonstrate that “singers” can be “taught to act”! (In fact, here’s a little “secret”, most high school students really can’t act, regardless of how they have been labelled in high school. They may have talent and potential, but even for the innately talented kids, the first year or so of college level professional training is aimed at stripping away bad habits and all of the baggage that students bring with them that will interfere with the training that will occur.) </p>

<p>Everyone has a mix of talents and weaknesses. It takes time and a lot of work to turn areas of weakness into strengths but it can be done. Don’t let anyone pigeonhole you at your young age. Talk to directors with whom you have worked in school, ask them to help you identify areas that need developing. There is nothing wrong with that - they are first and foremost teachers and should be more than willing to give you guidance. Look for opportunities to take acting classes in your area at local and regional theaters, at community night school classes often offered through your or neighboring municipalities, community colleges or high schools. If you can, attend a summer intensive.</p>

<p>When it comes time to apply to college MT programs, your goal, of course, should be to be as well rounded a performer as you can but just because you may not be as good an actor as a singer at that point does not mean you will not meet with success in the college audition process. Different schools weigh singing, acting and dance differently and have different priorities when determining whether a student is an appropriate fit for their program just as you will have your own priorities in determining whether a program is a fit for you. Don’t stress yourself over-thinking at this point whether you are an “actor”. Just look for all the opportunities you can find to get experience and training as you work towards your goal of applying to college programs.</p>

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<p>As for the title of this thread, proof that the aphorism is not correct? Gwyneth Paltrow, Scarlett Johannsen, et al. Suddenly all the young actresses aspire to be singers, but as another saying goes, “You can’t turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse.”</p>

18

<p>…or even the older ones…look, Meryl Streep is so insanely talented that is almost a joke how many Oscars she’s gotten, and fully deserved, but…the only person who sounded worse than her in Mama Mia, IMO, was Pierce Brosnan. OMG. I’m far from an expert but just from what I have picked up in listening to my daughter’s voice lessons, it seemed to me there were a few technical issues with the voice, kwim…</p>

<p>I’m thinking the old days when they just dubbed in Marnie Nixon might have been onto something. If that is they can’t find an actress who can sing. Which, as there ARE so many of them who can, (HELLO, it’s like, you can’t throw a cat without it hitting a brilliantly talented triple threat actress who will eat it because she’s starving for work, right? They couldn’t find ONE of those?) So it still leaves me puzzled as to why the hell they DIDN’T for that movie but…I’m sure the producers had their reasons…I guess…</p>

<p>And I saw Scarlett Johanson on SNL last night and really she is not an especially strong singer. Maybe she could be if she trained right and she hasn’t done it yet. I dunno.</p>