You Can't Work Your Way Through College Anymore- new report from Georgetown

Parents Forum
61

“But Chez Moo isn’t hiring a teenager. The bulk of their profitability comes from selling overpriced bottles of wine- and at least in my state, since an underaged server cannot handle alcohol, no restaurant like Chez Moo is hiring anyone under 21. It’s nice to live in a fantasy world isn’t it?”

In my state (and many other states), you can serve alcohol at 18. While you probably can’t get hired as a barkeep until 21, you definitely can be a waiter. Although it is not as easy to get hired as when the legal age was 18. Can work as a host or busboy sub-18 (as my kids have done). That’s usually the path to getting the more lucrative job as a tip earning server.

I made BANK during my undergrad days tending bar. Although I was often a bit woozy in morning classes the next day. Probably explains why I only had a 3.9 instead of a 4.0 in college.

62

"From my vantage point, the biggest shift, over the past 20-30 years, is this “need” by college seniors to “go away” to college. Very few want to commute from home to college, thereby adding anywhere from $10K to $15K per year to their college cost. For a lot of college students, Room & Board cost is the strongest determinant as to whether a school is affordable.

The problem, as stated above, is that for many students, this option is unacceptable. "

Exactly.

FYI. The majority of U.S. college students today (and also back in the olden days) are commuters. The super-majority of European college students are commuters.

The residential college experience is great. But it is a huge cost driver and not essential in the vast majority of cases.

I’m providing it for my lucky kids. I wish my parents had provided that opportunity to me and my siblings, but that wasn’t possible. Still our house produced 3 commuter college degrees. One college degree of two years CC followed by 2 years away at State U. Followed up by three masters degrees, one law degree and one PhD. We all did fine.

While my parents didn’t pay for tuition, room or board, they did provide access to car transportation. That was key to pulling off work and commuter school. But the cost of a beater car and insurance is way less than paying for living away at school and it allowed us to earn more money.

Since commuting was standard in my blue collar neighborhood, the neighborhood kids all knew/assumed that going away to school was only for rich kids. Most of the local schools we attended had no dorms at the time. They all have dorms now.

63

It’s not impossible, but trying to work more than 12 hours per week is very hard. I’ve been able to keep my course load light to limit study time to less than 30 hours per week (it’s closer to 20 when I don’t have to do multiple programming assignments at a time). Most computer science students at my school have heavier course loads. I’ve had semesters where trying to work 20 hours a week would have been nightmarish.

64

@northwesty

Residential can be the cheaper option in some cities, though. I pay about $1250 per month for university housing, and I live in San Francisco. I don’t pay utilities, I live in an apartment with a kitchen and a shocking amount of storage space, I live next to the major public transit lines, I have two good grocery stores in easy walking distance, and I can walk to the beach in half an hour. $1250 a month is a reasonable price for all of that when you live in San Francisco. Even if I moved to the East Bay or San Mateo County and commuted, I don’t really think I’d save enough money after utilities and BART fare to make me okay with the commute. The rents in surrounding cities aren’t that low. And if I didn’t live near BART? The only thing I hate more than riding in cars is driving them. I’ll tolerate a lot of inconvenience if it means I can stay well away from those blasted things. Besides, after gas, parking, and insurance, plus having to pay utilities, there is no way I am saving money compared to my current living situation if I move somewhere where I have to buy a car. Even if the rent is, like, half of what I pay now. So, yea, no car commuting here.

Anyway, my point is $1250 is what my university housing costs, and for what I get and where I get it, that’s very reasonable. So university housing isn’t always overpriced.

Also, I don’t like cars.

65

Not everyone has a home where kids can live indefinitely. Some are renting and rents also have skyrocketed, so keeping a two or three bedroom apartment can be daunting.

I was intrigued by the comment about California giving priority to full-time students. Is that really true on a policy level?

There are adult learning/degree completion programs that allow part-time study, full-time work, and the option of being on campus or online or both. Two of mine graduated from 4 year schools that were residential, but my third is working full time, living in an apartment with hard-working friends, and taking two classes at a time. Because a BA may take her 10 years, she does not expect me to support her, though I do help. it can be done this way, and it is her choice.She does not do loans. Her total school costs are around $1700/semester and I will pay that for as long as I can: she pays for everything else.

66

“Not everyone has a home where kids can live indefinitely. Some are renting and rents also have skyrocketed, so keeping a two or three bedroom apartment can be daunting.”

Come on. Colleges are only in session about 8 months a year. So where do the college students live the rest of the time?

Very few families are going to sell the house or rent out junior’s room on Air BnB the day junior is dropped off at freshman orientation. If the kid was able to live at home while in HS (which is most kids), then likely kid can live at home while attending a nearby college. That is standard in Europe and the majority experience here in the U.S.

The difference is that people here in the U.S. have gotten the idea over the past 30 years or so that the residential college experience is essential. It is not. It is fine and valuable, but optional and more expensive in almost all cases. Where I grew up, families couldn’t and didn’t pay for that. Since that was standard, the kids didn’t expect it or miss it much.

I grew up in the NYC outer boroughs. Most of the local colleges were mostly or entirely commuter at that time as they are in Europe. NYU, St. Johns, the CUNYs and many many more. The very smartest kids from my HS would typically attend Ivy League Columbia as commuters on scholarship. Not everywhere is as dense with schools and transportation as NYC, but in the super-majority of places there is a school nearby. When me and my siblings applied to grad school or went looking for jobs, no one asked if our college degrees were as residents or commuters.

Most think that the big problem with college these days is cost. Commuting and working is one of the most impactful ways to handle and reduce those costs. But many kids and families today find that available option unappealing or unworkable (which is incorrect). This self-serving study from Georgetown doesn’t help. FYI, Georgetown (like most urban Jesuit colleges) was a significant commuter school for most of its existence.

I personally like the idea of making two years at CC free followed by 2 years of university. That policy would quickly make that path standard for middle class kids. Which would take away much of the current “yuck” reaction to that path that middle class families currently have. That would take a big bite out of college costs imo.

67

Twenty percent of Americans don’t live in metropolitan areas, so they can’t really count on there being a public school nearby. Prestige, professional networks, and quality of academic programs can vary among instate publics. For some people living on campus may be worth the extra cost if there’s greater benefit to going to a farther away school. I did this, although in my case I had to choose between a school that’s “far” or a 1.5-2 hour commute to a closer school.

68

There are more than 4,000 2 and 4 year colleges in the U.S. There’s one pretty close to almost everyone.

I get that you may not like the one nearby so much. If I was able to afford colleges further away and more expensive, I surely wouldn’t have picked the commuter college I attended. I probably would have picked Georgetown!!

If you can’t or won’t attend a nearby college, then it is going to cost more.

69

If you can’t or won’t attend a nearby college, or your parents cannot or will not let you continue living with them, then it is going to cost more.

(i.e. some parental support is necessary more often than in the past)

70

I like your proposal, northwesty. Two years of free community college would allow students to have an idea what they wanted to do with their lives before having to pay to finish their degrees. They could work part-time while going to community college to save for their later education or just to help out with their living expenses, if they chose. The community colleges could also offer trade and tech skills to those who want to go that route. This kind of system, and reasonable tuition for four year state schools and subsidies for those who truly cannot afford the last two years, could make a positive difference.
I do think work experience and having to pay for some of your living expenses is healthy and appropriate for young adults, although being saddled with heavy loans is not in the best interests of our students, or the country, so the fees have to be reasonable.
I guess I’m getting old. I worked 15- 20 hours a week from junior year in high school through college. It was a different time, yes, but that work experience was as valuable to my education as my academic experience. I can see how much my own kids gained from working, even though their living standard didn’t depend on it. It definitely helps you grow up.

71

I think the big disconnect between a few users here is caused by the fact that northwesty’s advice is utilitarian. For most students living at home past 18 is a pretty reasonable option. This is not an option for emancipated minors and people who’ve aged out of foster care. For teenagers who are in abusive or otherwise poor environments, living at home as an adult isn’t a reasonable option if they’re even allowed to live at home.

72

This kind of conversation happens a lot in Korea, too, except it’s not just school; it happens in every thing!

73

"This is not an option for emancipated minors and people who’ve aged out of foster care. For teenagers who are in abusive or otherwise poor environments, living at home as an adult isn’t a reasonable option if they’re even allowed to live at home. "

This is true, which is why it is important to have financial aid, grants and subsidies, as well as counseling and help with housing for disadvantaged students. I feel the resources, which are always limited, should go to those who need it most. Not to my kids, or their friends in similar, advantaged, circumstances.

74

Then one must be willing to pay extra for it. That’s why the golf shirts with the stupid embroidered polo-pony cost more than the ones without, even though both shirts are perfectly serviceable.

75

@GMTplus7 Honestly, I really don’t feel like I even am paying extra for the residential experience. Granted, my choices are find myself an apartment or live on campus. My Mom lives in a state where I don’t have residency and we don’t get along well, my Dad has a studio apartment with room for one person only, and my Grandma already gave me two free years of housing while I was in community college and felt it time I found a place. Given my options, I find my on campus rent largely worth what I get.

76

DS wanted to study engineering. Our state schools don’t offer engineering. The Penn State branch campus would have been manageable for 2 years, but transferring to main would have been unaffordable.

The Community College is an hour away. That would have required a “decent” used car, as I would not want my kid driving a beater that far that often and they get expensive because they are always breaking down. Plus, we would also have higher rates, as they we would be out of county.

Yes, he could have saved some money in CC college, but not as cheap an option as imagined. Then he still would have had to transfer to complete his final 2 years, so back to square one, no state schools that offers engineering, and others are unaffordable.

So he is away w/ full tuition + engineering scholarships. With some $ from us, full loans on his part, he will be able to graduate w/ a 4 yr engineering degree with manageable debt, I hope. Luckily, for him & us, he was a high stat kid, so many aren’t.

77

Well, I know american families live in a dynamic country, at where people almost always were able to do whatever they wanted. But, this wasn’t always true. There were civil wars, and hard work to build all that freedom, including from certain politicians. But nowadays even the trusted types of politicians of the past don’t act the same way anymore.

So, leaving the issues aside, when it comes to college, it actually comes to oportunity and economical relevant maneuvering, and if you have to maneuver economically an oportunity, you must do it right, to get right, not to fail.Then, an independent entrepreneurial solution may resolve this situation, because america is still an entrepreneurial country, and if you’re taking a course, you’re paying for it and expecting to get a return, not to be broke…also, you’re not only willing to study, you’re willing to work, if managing, you’ll also will put people to work for you…again, an enterprise will only build uppon it.

Also, I would like to say, that, besides the working issues arising and the economical differences between workers’ and companies’ income rate, we could see that owning a company is more rewarding than working for a company…
Which leads to the fact that america is still an entrepreneurial place…We all know that there are bubbles, and we must assume that the first to take the damage are the employees, making an account check, it seems that it is far more prudent to save instead of paying more, because there’s risk, much higher than before…so, the safety goes for the company instead…

hmm, if one works for a company to be safe from the risk of founding a company by it’s own, it seems like nowadays, companies put the risk at the shoulders of it’s own employees more than protect them from the companies’s risks

And I’m not just speaking randomly, I do my part, I run my own company, I’m majoring in two different courses and institutions and pretend to open some other companies as soon as possible.

I never needed financial help from others, never inherited anything, I needed not to take courses to score high and get A+'s, and yet, before founding my company I did get a D+ once, so, I’m not a genius, yet, I’ve got scholarship since I was 10, by my own study, I’m not a spoiled person.

Well, people in america had a strong country for centuries, they’re used to it, but that’s not enough to forget about the old way, even if you’re not so prone to work hard, your children may like it and may be tallented in it, may be more than they think they are.

78

Yea, who is going to pay for free college? Someone has to.

79

This isn’t a surprise.
I live in New Jersey. Minimum wage is $8.35, around $20,000 annually. This could cover CC tuition, but it’s nowhere near enough for a public, let alone private, four-year school.

80

@laralei The situation in Connecticut is pretty similar, although I think UConn is more generous with financial aid than Penn State is.