Wouldn’t it be a good idea for a person to prepare for a job that paid more than minimum as a college student?
@JustOneDad I’m genuine confused why you think this is reasonable or even particularly common. People at my high school deferred learning skills for higher-skilled professions since they were planning on doing that in college. The people I went to high school with worked in retail or food service. This is hardly surprising since they need people to work outside of school hours. Likewise the most common jobs at my school are in similar fields and are at the lowest pay tier. Work Study awards also complicate things. At my school a lot of jobs exclusively hire work-study recipients, and again are in the lowest pay tier. The benefit to these jobs is being able to do homework while on the clock.
Many people do find much better paying jobs later, often in the form of an internship or coop. But they had to begin attending college in order to get those jobs.
On the ease with which some participants on this thread assume people can simply up and go to college:
I live in Alaska. There are 4-year-degree options in commuting distance for those who live in and around Anchorage, Juneau, and Fairbanks, but that’s it. What do the kids from, say, Nome without decent family support do?
And yes, I realize that Alaska’s an extreme case—but there are plenty of students in more “normal” places like Wyoming and Montana and such without reasonable nearby access to a 4-year school.
The assumption that everyone lives in urban centers, or in states with lots and lots of higher-ed options pretty much everywhere, quite simply boggles.
I don’t think OneDad is thinking about career jobs. Just working your way up to better paying jobs that younger people can get – busboy-waiter-bartender (harder now than before with 21 drinking age), lifeguard, construction, tech support, web design, nanny, tutor, giving music or tennis lessons, fixing cracked iphones, sports referee. etc. Something where you have a skill or certification so you can justify higher pay.
I haven’t made any claims about how common it is.
It’s reasonable to want to make more money per hour as a student because then you will need to spend fewer hours away from your studies. I’ve also been saying that it should be more common if students and parents would engage in some advance planning.
And why would a college force a student to get Work-Study if they can make four or five times the amount working at some other job?
81% of the U.S. population lives in urban areas. 95% of Californians do. The super majority of people have access to one of the 4,000 2 or 4 year college in the country.
It boggles my mind how people think that the minority of exceptions overtakes the vast majority of cases covered!!
Yes, I recognize that the majority of the US population lives near a 4-year college.* Does this mean we should ignore the needs of those who don’t, or pretend that they don’t exist when developing our generalizations?
And please, @northwesty, stop including 2-year colleges in your claims of (nearly) everybody living close to a college. A 2-year degree isn’t really what’s being discussed in this thread as the goal. (Of course, doing so would make your claim a little bit less true.)
- Which is different from living in an urban or suburban area. There are rural areas with easy access to colleges, and urban areas without.
Even for the vast* majority, college is less affordable than it was a generation ago.
A generation ago, there were college students supporting themselves from work earnings (not living with their parents) and using some of the money to pay the then-trivial public university tuition and books.
Now, working one’s way through college is much more likely to depend on parents willing to let the student continue living with them and no or minimal cost (i.e. this is parental support). This also imposes more restrictions the student’s choice of colleges compared to a generation ago, which may impose restrictions on choice of major and the like.
*Perhaps getting less vast, if more states follow PA and IL in making their public universities unaffordable to students from middle and lower income families, as described in reply #75.
@northwesty Exactly. A number of these are things that we hung out doing in our spare time in HS. Computer programming, for example.
I know a student who loved to weld in 4-H. She put herself through college doing specialty welding at 3X what she would have earned anywhere else.
When you only consider in-state public schools with the necessary academic programs the list of candidate schools can get really small, potentially one school. If you want to study engineering in Connecticut you have to go to UConn’s Storrs campus, though you could spend a year going to a satellite campus first. Community college is possibly an option, but issues with credit transfers can really screw up plans to save money. If you live in southwest Connecticut, which half the state does, commuting is a pretty miserable experience. And it’s impossible if you can’t afford a car.
If no Connecticut school offers your major, you’ll have to go out-of-state. There is a reduced tuition program for New England residents who have to go out of state. It’s still higher than in-state tuition, plus transportation and housing costs will likely be higher.
What anyone has failed to mention is that earning $8k a year is ASSUMING you’re working full time. I worked several jobs in high school. All were between 15-25 hours a week max. Businesses are too cheap to pay for your full time benefits so they hire the american equivalent of slave labor- high school kids who will take what they can get. Working multiple jobs to supplement never worked for me because employers (atleast in my case) don’t like non-flexible work schedules for such a replaceable position.
“And please, @northwesty, stop including 2-year colleges in your claims of (nearly) everybody living close to a college. A 2-year degree isn’t really what’s being discussed in this thread as the goal. (Of course, doing so would make your claim a little bit less true.)”
One of my siblings saved money by doing 2 years at CC at home followed up by 2 years away at State U. Lots of states have coordination agreements that facilitate that path to a 4 year degree.
So access to a nearby 2 year school is part of the plan for many kids. Not if you live in Alaska; not if you want to do a joint degree in Sanskrit and aeronautical engineering. Sure. But for your typical kid (can live with parents; is close to a 2 or 4 year school; wants to study English or business) it can work.
Yes, it’s part of the plan for many—but it distracts from the main thrust of the discussion on this thread.
My daughter would have been fine living at home but she’s studying for a career that is not offered at any college in our state at the undergraduate level (Music Therapist). Although we were careful and we found an out of state private school which costs us the same as the closest in state directional university would (since they don’t have an endowment to give to students - only valedictorians and salutatorians get merit aid).
I should add - I had a full-time job and a part-time job while I was getting my degree. I had a husband and kids, too, which did not make it easier! I place a very high value on work and I love working, I would probably keep working if I won the lottery (which I won’t because I never buy lottery tickets). It just made the whole process take a long time - if it had taken me a semester longer I would no longer have qualified for financial aid, which may also become an issue.
Let’s talk about a student who has good enough grades to go to college, but not good enough to get merit aid anywhere. If that student also has no money, what are his options for getting a college degree? It seems to me that it is largely true that such a student probably can’t earn enough money to get a college degree in four years immediately after completing high school while working, even if he lives with his parents, at least in most states. He might be able to complete two years of community college like this, if there is one nearby. To complete his degree, he now needs to transfer to a four-year college. Even if he can still commute from his parents’ home, can he earn enough while attending (and with loans) to finish in four years? Maybe, if he’s lucky enough to have a high-paying job, and a particularly cheap commutable college. But I think many students would have to take longer than four years to get a degree under this plan. But how long? If it can be done in six years, total, is that unacceptable?
I think one of the major problems here is this idea that everyone must go to college. I mean, I believe that for me it is a great decision but that for many students cheaper trade schools would be a better choice and in many cases provide higher post graduate salaries.
Having said that, even as a relatively high-achieving student I recognize that college has the capacity to be completely inaccessible to me, with or without having a job while in school. It is a mistake to say that hard work and dedication will result in a position that pays reasonably well enough to be able to live independently while in college and even to certain degree while living in dorms or the like. I am 19 years old and have worked at the same place for over 3 years and in all that time, being a consistently hard worker, I have gotten 3 raises totaling a pay increase of 1.12 cents more per hour. I now make the exorbitant hourly wage 8.46 an hour. The only people I know who have been able to break the ten dollar mark with a high school degree or less are my friends who have acquired jobs in their parents company.
I am not eligible for un-subsidized loans as my parents are not citizens and I alone will not qualify. Community colleges do not offer the programs I am interested in and the closest state flagship is literally the most expensive state school in the country. I have looked into trade schools and the like but it is not really what I want to do. So when people say things like Ivy or bust, I cringe a little bit because for me that's not a matter of social elitism it's a simple fact. I either get into a top school with great Financial programs or I don't go for at least one more year.
I agree that there is this idea that students must continue on to college in order to secure a good job. I think this idea is even more prevalent among struggling, lower-class families who believe that sending their child to college will guarantee a better education, a better job, and a better life.
On the other hand, I hesitate to suggest trade schools because at least in my area, many are “certificate mills” (much like the for-profit “degree mills” we talk about when discussing certain universities). I have known a few people who went to well known trade schools but weren’t prepared to actually secure a job. Some of the certificates weren’t even properly recognized. People need to be careful where they are investing their money.
This is the other problem I have. Not all 4-year colleges cost $65,000+ per year. I have a local 4-year university that is under $10,000 a year. It is accredited, has a wide variety of majors, and has a very large campus that provides a nice residential life (and a great commuter experience if living at home). Sure, it isn’t a selective school, and I can’t say the education is excellent, but it is an option. I have seen high-achieving students do extremely well there. They stand out, take advantage of all of the opportunities they are given, and although they may not see recruiters from big businesses at this school, they can still land a good job and work their way up. For students well-suited for college, who hope to pursue careers requiring degrees, this option is better than nothing.
My local community college also offers bachelor degrees through partnerships with other local 4-year universities. There are many ways to cut down on the cost of college. Many students and parents just aren’t willing to forgo the “brand” and take the option that is within their means.
cowtownbrown - I do sympathize with students who don’t have affordable local options. It may mean you’ll need to take a few years off, but there are better options than what you have. Warehouse retailers, even in low cost of living areas, pay more than what you’re making, and that’s only one option. Find an opportunity with better growth opportunities. Especially ones that offer tuition reimbursement or discounts. Play the game, and take feedback seriously to move yourself forward. You’ll have to work harder to prove you’re responsible enough and mature even given your age. It doesn’t have to be “top name or nothing” if you’re serious about pursuing a degree.
My brother in law worked his way through Valencia CC and U of Central Florida by working part time at UPS in the 1970s. He got a full time engineering position at UPS. His son is also living at home and working his way through UCF. by working at UPS. It is still possible in Florida to work one’s way through a college degree, if one can live at home.
UPS pays about $12-15 per hour in Florida, depending on experience. Summer jobs pay way way more than $15 per hour in some fields like engineering. My son got a summer job as a sailing instructor for $12 per hour in Colorado. Any major US bank will take a high school graduate and pay them from $10-15 per hour and offer college students part time work. Banks also offer training. There are plenty of higher paying jobs for students wiling to work. The oil and gas industry pays way more in fact for high school educated students in the summers, who are willing to work hard.