<p>SO, counselors and parents say “choose a good school, one where you can handle the courseload” So say Timmy thinks he’s smart, took many APs, has good SATs, is dedicated, etc etc. When he gets to Harvard, turns out that the courseload is hectic, more so than he expected, and now it’s getting quite unbearable. To whom could Timmy have spoken to, to really get a feel for how much work you’re assigned at a “tough” school, etc? I mean my point is, Timmy thought that becuase of his grades and good transcript, he could handle the tough courseload. Unfortunately, maybe his school had easy grading, wasn’t tough enough, or any other reason may have caused his misconception about how hard it actually was going to be, and right now, for some reason, he just can’t cut it (in a few classes only; i dont mean he’s flunking every subject). So, any ideas, suggestions, advice on how we can accurately get a picture of what we’re going to be dealing with when we get to a school that has a reputation of being “rigorous” ? (Yes, I know many schools claim to be and probably are, rigorous) Btw, i used Harvard as a hypothetical example, i don’t actually know how rigorous it is, exactly.</p>
<p>I’ve heard they really try to help you graduate and the workload isn’t bad. The rigorous schools are the technical ones like Caltech, MIT, and Harvey Mudd.</p>
<p>I’ve heard the same for Harvard. I heard there is grade inflation there. On the other side, I heard grades at places like MIT deflate grades.</p>
<p>(my post sounds exactly the same as the person above me…oh well).</p>
<p>a lot of the prestigious private schools are really, really hard to get into, but once u get in, it’s very, very easy to graduate.</p>
<p>I think that you are stressing for nothing. </p>
<p>If you know your high school subjects, and you know how to organize and study - you should be fine. For serious students who put studying before partying, the really hard part is getting in, not graduating. </p>
<p>I would suggest wisely planning your college courses each semester. This means, if you have one course with heavy reading, don’t pile on another with it. Try to have a good mix of classes. Generally, taking two entry level histories at the same time is not a good idea (often they are “weed out” classes so they pile on the reading on to see who can “handle” it - more so than they do in the upper level history courses).</p>
<p>If you look at graduation rates, the schools like HPYS, Amherst, Williams, etc. have the highest graduation rates in the country.</p>
<p>Since I’m a Harvard alumn and also am an alum interviewer who keeps up with events there, I can explain how this is so at Harvard. Presumably most of the below applies to the other schools, too.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>All applicants accepted to H have the ability and work ethic to graduate from Harvard. It has the luxury of having an abundance of highly qualified candidates, about 90% of those “qualify” for Harvard admission, meaning that they have demonstrated the intellectual abilities, academic background and work ethic that if they are accepted, they’ll graduate. Obviously, the 10% who do not demonstrate those things will not be among the 1 in 10 applicants who is admitted.</p></li>
<li><p>The coursework is very doable. For instance, social science courses probably require a 20-page paper plus a midterm and final. There are no waste of time assignments such as outlining chapters or having to define words for homework. Due to the strong writing and research skills that all H students have (due to admissions policies), the course requirements that I described are very doable for them.</p></li>
<li><p>While there are some majors that are extremely difficult (biochemistry, I think may be one) and also are difficult at any college one would attend, students always can switch to easier majors if they can’t keep up with their selected one.</p></li>
<li><p>Faculty are very flexible in terms of giving extensions to assignments and courses tend NOT to be graded on a curve. Frankly, most students get As and Bs. Cs are rare. Despite what some outsiders say, this is partly because the overall standard of students’ work is fairly high. These are, after all, students who in h.s. had high class rank and had high scores, so they tend not to hand in horrible work that would get low grades.</p></li>
<li><p>At H and some other schools mentioned, students also get a significant period of up to 3 weeks before finals to prepare for finals and to prepare final projects. During this period, classes are not held, and students who may have devoted lots of time to ECs at the expense of classes, can catch up on their work,</p></li>
<li><p>Unlike what’s the case at many lower ranked schools, students don’t get low grades for skipping class or arriving late. As long as they can do the work that’s assigned, they can do fine. At some state schools in particular, it’s possible to flunk a class for skipping even if one is carrying an “A” average on homework and tests. While these kind of policies support unmotivated students who need to be in class in order to learn enough to pass, the same policies hurt smart students who may be able to get As by studying completely on their own.</p></li>
<li><p>Even if students do terribly for dumb reasons like partying too much, they are not permanently kicked out. They are forced to take time off, which presumably allows them to mature. Afterward, they are welcomed back. A couple of people in my class were kicked out for things like literally getting all Fs a semester because of leading protest activities against the university. After taking a year or two off, the students came back and graduated.</p></li>
<li><p>There also are excellent tutoring services and counseling services available.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>My experience has been that the top universities are very hard to get acceptance into, but once in, you’re in forever unless you choose to permanently cut the tie. Perhaps all of this is due to cognitive dissonance on the part of the administrators, but it certainly works to the students’ favor.</p>
<p>To be totally honest, I think the reason MIT has a reputation for “grade deflation” is because most people at MIT are science and engineering majors. Science and engineering are not particularly grade-inflated, even at schools with a reputation for grade inflation.</p>
<p>Many of the student support services mentioned by Northstarmom are also in place at MIT; the coursework is difficult (because science and engineering are difficult), but there are many institutional supports to help students through.</p>
<p>thanks everyone!!</p>
<p>I’ve heard that most privates, as they are dependent on tuition fees and alumni generosity, are not exceedingly hard to graduate from. Conversely, if you go to a prestigious public school like UC Berkeley or UCLA where under 3/4 students graduate in four years, you might find quite a different experience.</p>
<p>I read somewhere that Berkeley and UCLA are much harder than the Ivy League schools and Stanford.</p>
<p>stick it out for one semester and timmy will build up a tolerance for studying. simple as that.</p>
<p>Well, depends on your courses and your major of course, but the average GPA at Berkeley and UCLA is quite a bit lower than that of the Ivy League schools and Stanford (although one could possibly make a case for Cornell).</p>
<p>
Fascinating information. Could you please name the state schools that dock their students 3 letter grades for missing class? I’m sure that would be helpful for all college applicants.</li>
</ol>
<p>It seems like state schools are harder, IMO.</p>
<p>They don’t admit people who can’t handle the work. If you can’t take it, you’re in the wrong major.</p>
<p>why the heck do Cal and UCLA have to be so hard ?!! Getting in there is hard enough, and it’s not like they’re on par with Ivies (yes, i know, they’re good nevertheless, especially for a state education).</p>
<p>edit that: ok, maybe they’re on par with the ivies in some departments/fields. i don’t really know. The point is, the tough grading at Cal, UCLA, and USC kind of makes it hard to get into competitive grad schools, is there some truth to this ?</p>
<p>im not going to get into the public/private or grade inflation debate again, but i will provide an anecdote about one of my best friends experiences at harvard.</p>
<p>it IS hard. this isnt to say its unbearably difficult by any means, but the level of work my friend was asked to do for his calc 2 and 3 classes there was more than what was expected at my lac (with a very strong math department) and far and away more than what was expected of my friends at flagship state u. i know because i routinely helped my friends when they got stuck on their homework… in some cases the differences in expectations were borderline shocking.</p>
<p>anyway, after deciding that math really wasnt for him, my friend switched to a humanities concentration. and guess what… he found that difficult, so much so that he has since switched again… to computer science. graduating was never an issue. however, earning the 3.0 necessary for teaching certification in many states was.</p>
<p>my point is this: like many have said, if you can get into a school it probably means you can graduate. however, unlike most american high schools it doesnt mean that you will (or even can) get a 4.0 by having a brain in your head and the will to do so. and thats just the way it should be.</p>
<p>ericatbucknell … Ok, so you said you’re friend at Harvard had it tough, and he had strenuous amounts of work ? (Just want to clarify).</p>
<p>hes still there. does he have lots of work? sure. but the major differentiating factor in his math homework (the only thing i can really speak about with authority) compared to mine or those at state u was not so much in its quanity but rather that the work was of a higher intellectual level. </p>
<p>ill explain it this way: his calculus classes were taught as though everyone in the room was a math major. my state u friends were taught more as though everybody was an engineer. the classes at my school were in the middle. all of us learned how to do the same basic things, but the harvard class spent substantially more time attacking the ‘why’ questions, which, as you might guess, tended to get into math more intellectually challenging than the calculus he learned itself.</p>
<p>i should probably also say that my friend has by no means killed himself for his ~3.0. but it definitely hasnt been the walk in the grade-inflated park that so many people make it out to be, either.</p>