<p>Was going to add the above quote to the “fairness” thread, but thought I’d start a new one with it. I think Ben Stein’s column in the business section of the NY Times applies to a lot of us and our kids (and our parents):</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/business/08every.html?ref=business[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/business/08every.html?ref=business</a></p>
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<p>just sent my son that link (he does read the NYTimes online, but isn’t getting the print version this summer). I was paying for this print subscription during the school year (and 3 or 4 other magazines too).</p>
<p>he’s working two jobs this summer, at least 40 hours a week.
When I ask what he did on any given day, his stock answer is now “work”. In fact, he says “I work more hours than you”. I have to restrain myself from telling him I’ve been working full time for almost 30 years and to let me know when he catches up from working ‘more hours per week than I work’</p>
<p>And so it ever was. If you don’t want the job, don’t have kids. My kids do thank me occasionally but it wouldn’t really matter to me if they didn’t. I WANT them to have “carefree” days. There’s enough time for worry and anxiety and work in life after school, as we boomers know and our parents knew and their parents knew. </p>
<p>Ben Stein is rapidly approaching “Hey you kids get off my lawn!” status.</p>
<p>I agree, MilwDad.</p>
<p>Isn’t the whole point of being a parent wanting your kids to actually be kids?</p>
<p>We’re told all the time we’re growing up too fast…and then when we actually try to be kids, we aren’t appreciative.</p>
<p>MAKE UP YOUR MIND, BEN STEIN.</p>
<p>He barely worked during the school year and spent every nickel I gave him or that he has ever earned in his life. He will spend as much as he has.</p>
<p>I guess he could have come home and worked part time and slept till noon around here for 4 months. Neither one of us wanted that.</p>
<p>The ‘kid’ wanted to stay in NYC (at a cost of $3000 to ME) for the summer, Is it too much to ask that he pays for a piece of bread. Summer classes? No, not unless I was footing the bill. </p>
<p>When the fall rolls around, he won’t be working except for maybe 8-10 hours per week (and he only did that for about 8 weeks during his entire freshman year).</p>
<p>he likes to spend money. I can’t give him all he wants</p>
<p>this is the first summer since he was 7 that he didn’t go to overnight camp. He went from youngest camper all the way to counselor. He isn’t fun deprived. I’m sure he’s enjoying living in NYC over the summer without his school responsibilities. For MY son, working the summer is a good thing.</p>
<p>Nice sentiment. But, nah. Doesn’t apply to me and my parents. Mom left the family when sister and I were 14 and 16. She was the typical '70’s housewife who needed to find herself. Then, as soon as sister reached 18, Dad quit his bank exec job, sold the house, and made no contact for the next 3 years. The idea of either one of them losing sleep over how to provide for their daughters would be laughable if it weren’t so sad. </p>
<p>Having said that, my kids were born on 3rd base. I admit it. And I have every intention of helping them slide safely into home. Maybe I’m overcompensating for my parents’ actions. But so what?</p>
<p>Well, I think Stein’s point was that he regrets not giving enough thanks and credit to his dad while he was alive and meant it as a Father’s Day column. I quoted it here as a follow up to mom2three’s “Not fair” thread. </p>
<p>Like DougBetsy, I’m happy and proud to be able to provide a “third base” start to my kids. I don’t expect gratitude, only that they take advantage of the opportunities offered them and pay it forward.</p>
<p>Every generation puts its time in eventually. And every generation seems to think that it worked harder to get to where it is than the one that came after it.</p>
<p>And no, sueinphilly, it is not asking too much that your son should work to support his spending. I hope no one here is saying that. We can afford to have our son do volunteer work this summer so that’s what he’s doing, partly because we really wanted him to be able to take some trips with us. If we couldn’t afford that, we’d expect him to work for $$–at any job he could get.</p>
<p>finally understood this baseball language.</p>
<p>With my advanced US degree and our effort, I think we have helped our kids get into the team. DS is still doing batting practice. DD will be going up to bat after summer and it is all up to herself from here on. </p>
<p>Third base? let’s say I will be very happy to see our grandkids making an effort from the 2nd base.</p>
<p>DadII, too funny about baseball language!</p>
<p>My D, at age 7, wouldn’t run between second base and third, despite all the coaches yelling “Run, run!” because the ball had been hit far by someone else.</p>
<p>Instead, she stopped in-between second and third base to stand and chat with the Shortstop. I heard her chirping away, “Nice shoes! Where’d you get those shoes?!” I thought the team coach would have a heart attack. His face certainly got very red. </p>
<p>Even today, she prefers participating in theater projects, improvisational comedy troupes and fashion modeling to any organized sports.</p>
<p>For many kids I know, it is going to be a tough deal for them to get to third base, even if the parents are there already. I know in our family, my grandparents had the most rudimentary of education and worked the most menial jobs. The next generation on my father’s side, took whatever they got and parlayed it into a college degree, a stable middle income job and a family mantra that college was the destination for the kids. My brothers and I had that starting point and all of us went to college on a financial combination from merit awards, aid packages, loans, and some family money. Not only college, but advanced degrees, and elite school were for us. Now, our kids, though they have advantages that we did not have, are looking at our achievements as the goal of sorts, which is unfair and unrealistic if they are not wired that way. I have to remind myself of this all of the time, as my kids are not as academically motivated as H, brothers, and I were. </p>
<p>So I don’t know if we “gave” them that hit that put them on base.</p>
<p>Sometimes you get hit by a pitch and have to take your base…</p>
<p>I do hate how my parents complain about paying for my food, about how they took me to my activities as a kid, how they bought me things, and how ungrateful I am. I’ve worked 20+ hours a week since I was going into high school and often had to lend them money to pay the bills. I offered to go to publice school and they didn’t let me. I bought my own car, paid for my own gas and insurance. I never borrowed money from them from the age 15 on. Right now, my parents owe me over $200 (really alot more, but I gave up on trying to get it). Yet, I still get the “we paid for private high school, braces, food, etc.”. They turn me into a burden, rather than a child. It’s actually a really bad feeling, to be refered to as some weight on their back.</p>
<p>Because he grew up overseas my son never got the baseball lingo right either. He was recently recruited to play on his employer’s softball team so I dusted off my favorite John Cheever story, The National Pastime, about a man with a phobia for baseball. </p>
<p>The climatic moment which seems appropos to this thread:
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<p>I know exactly what you mean and how you feel. To my parents (post #6) sister and I were a financial burden to Dad and a lifestyle inconvenience to Mom. Between the two of us, I can’t decide who had the worse luck: me b/c they up and left, or you b/c they hold it over your head. {{hug}} :)</p>
<p>Sometimes holding it over your head is a guilt mechanism for financial support later on in life. Seems to be common in asian families.</p>
<p>Parents have to sacrifice for their kids and give up the things that they want to do, at least for a while. That can be tough to take as your hobbies are replaced by responsibilities. But the parents are the ones that had the kids; and so they are responsible for the consequences of their actions. Of course a lot of parents don’t understand the sheer amount of work and expense in raising kids when they have them. Some do and they have more kids anyways.</p>
<p>Parents wouldn’t talk to their coworkers, employees or managers - well maybe some would. But why treat your kids worse then other adults?</p>
<p>Sometimes I have witnessed the “born on third base” mentality in a nephew. His parents and grandparents worked hard (and still work hard) so he never had to hold a job in high school or college, never had to buy his own vehicle until he was out of college, and had his entire college education paid for by his parents. He grew up in a family that values education and family and kids.</p>
<p>And this young man seems to have no compassion or understanding that everyone is not born into the same circumstances he was. He rails against government assistance and affirmative action with no acknowledgement of all the assistance he has received – assistance that a lot of other people do not have, as a result of the situation they were born into.</p>
<p>This is actually the reason that, as a 26-year-old young engineering professional, I remain very quiet about my family’s financial background, and why I think I’ve chosen a profession that requires very little luck, few connections in high places, and a lot of hard work.</p>
<p>I went to the best schools. I’ve always been grateful for that. From kindergarten through high school, my parents provided me with an advantage. My hard work there got me into an excellent college, where my parents continued to support me financially, for which I’m very thankful. My hard work in college got me into all the top grad programs, and got me funding for one of them… but because of that familial support, there’s somehow a general perception that my accomplishments-- my degrees from top programs, my honors and accolades, my excellent job and general success-- do not entirely belong to me. They will always partly belong to those who provided the advantage that I initially had.</p>
<p>I would gladly share the credit for my accomplishments with my parents, but I think that it’s for me to give. I don’t think it’s for my parents to take, or even for Ben Stein to take and give to my parents (though I like Ben Stein and think he’s very kind to offer this posthumous recognition to his father), and I don’t think that my parents would ever take it from me without my giving the credit to them first. After all, they’ve had the occasional advantage in their lives, but it would seem that they’re given credit for their own accomplishments. At what age do your accomplishments become your own? At what stage in life does that begin to happen, if not in high school and college?</p>
<p>Bottom line, what I think:
<p>aibarr, I respectfully disagree that no one is born on 3rd base. Intelligence alone is why some people are born on 3rd base and others are not. At least 85% of the population lacks the intellectual ability to have a masters degree in engineering. It’s just how it is. Some people can’t even hold the bat in this game.</p>