<p>I consider myself a liberal and a feminist but I am also aware that my thoughts are often wrapped up in the context of the time I was raised in and my upbringing, which often had a double standard for young women as opposed to young men, which, when I think rationally, should not be. Although my initial reaction is sometimes influenced by double standards, usually upon reflection, I see the fallacies of my thinking. </p>
<p>I’ve made a concentrated effort to raise self-confident, grounded kids who are comfortable with their bodies and who are well educated on the risks of sexual activity and how to minimize those risks. </p>
<p>So, I am interested in others’ thoughts on sexual activity in today’s college culture. Women are better educated than at any other period of history. Young people are getting married later, if at all (there are many articles on the declining marriage rate). Young people seem to be working harder than ever in college, to get into to graduate schools, and to start careers. I hear from young people of both sexes that they often aren’t interested in having a serious relationship in their current stage in life. I often hear people lament the hook-up culture in college, but if it is between 2 young adults, and they are physically attracted to each other, and they practice safe sex, is it really all that bad? </p>
<p>I understand that some may have views that are influenced by their religious beliefs but let’s leave religion out of this discussion. Let’s assume its not a factor to the young people being discussed. </p>
<p>Just thought it would be an interesting discussion. At times, I think I could argue both sides. :)</p>
<p>I think a lot of young women do long for some kind of commitment and exclusivity in a sexual relationship, and they feel they no longer have the right to expect it or ask for it. In that sense, the hook-up culture has done some damage. The freedom to hook up has turned into the expectation or even the obligation to do so. We hear a lot about the evils of “slut-shaming” but I think “prude-shaming” is just as prevalent today. Either way, our girls can’t win.</p>
<p>Ok, i’ll start. My D just graduated from a large, popular, urban college. We tried to raise her to be sexually aware, confident and independent. Sometimes we wince, when she is actuallizing her upbringing. With that said, she is living with her boyfriend in NYC and they are both making a go at independence, working and doing their thing. We are fine with that. We like him. During college, she dated approx 3 guys that I am aware of, but had lots a male friends. Did a lot of social things with them. Whatever else, i am unaware of. Even one of the dorms on campus which are all coed has a floor that the dorm rooms are mixed gendered. Many of her friends are now living with their S.O., also students,in off campus apartments. This seems to be the norm as it does help with epenses and sharing costs. There does seem to be some casualness to all of this. Is it good or bad?Probably a fallout from our generation. Because we raised her to be independent, we respect her decision to live her life as she chooses. This has kept us close with her. She seeks our advice on certain things, including birth control, etc. I have asked her, jokingly,is this the guy she is going to marry and she says, she not going to get married for another 10 years. With these kinds of arrangements, there does not seem to be any rushes into marriage, although I do see a level of committment on each side. I have no idea if this will be the one she ends up with. One of my co workers daughter just got engaged after 10 yrs of living together. He even asked her father first. Career focus, independence, earning money seems to be primary. Im ok with that.</p>
<p>I see young adults today as much more thoughtful and deliberate with how they spend their time and energy than my peers were 36 years ago.
No one needs to involve another person to be sexual.
Relationships also take time and energy and while they can be very fulfilling, I see both men and women waiting until it feels right to take that step.</p>
<p>You bring up some good points. I’m a young woman, and I understand what you mean by how “prude-shaming” and “slut-shaming” both exist. </p>
<p>Happily, I’ve given up on trying to be popular. My focus now is learning as much as I can, being the best that I can be, making a good life for myself, and finding someone with whom I can settle down. I now realize that I don’t need to please the world, but rather my close friends and family because those people will have my back when it’s all said and done. It’s frustrating/futile trying to figure out the world with the intent of pleasing them/getting them to like you. </p>
<p>I agree with NJSue. I actually think that most young women long for some kind of exclusivity in a sexual relationship (as do many young men), although I have no data to back up my opinion…just observation. Young women feel that if they don’t have sex fairly early on in a relationship, there will be no relationship. Yet, having sex early in the relationship guarantees nothing. Young women almost have to be fairly “easy” if they want a relationship at all. I find it sad and disturbing–and I grew up in the “free-love” sixties! That era was not nearly as open and uncommitted as this one seems to me.</p>
<p>I have overheard girls in middle school expressing the belief that if they don’t put out early, they will never have a boyfriend. This doesn’t strike me as an advancement for feminism. </p>
<p>Germaine Greer once wrote that a woman should not be “dancing backwards” with regards to sex. If you are not in control of your sexuality, you are '“dancing backwards.” Women who feel they must put out or be lonely are “dancing backwards” too.</p>
<p>milkandsugar - I raised my kids as you did. They feel comfortable talking to their father and I about things and many of their friends are quite open in their discussions as well. It’s these discussion that have made me rethink much of my own thinking over the years.</p>
<p>NJSue - I agree with your thoughts on “slut shaming” and “prude shaming”. Honestly, there shouldn’t be any shaming at all, should there? Each to his/her own comfort level and stage in life, I guess. </p>
<p>Parenting both a daughter and son has been eye opening for me and made me throw out assumptions made based on gender. I always thought the same as some of you have stated - that females want attachments and relationships. Based on my own daughter & son and some of their friends, I’ve often seen the opposite. Often, it the guys who get more attached and want a commitment. The girls seem ready to move on quicker. </p>
<p>I know “easy” was put in quotation marks above, but that’s the double standard mentality many of us view it through and it shouldn’t be that way. </p>
<p>I think relationships might have been viewed as easier or simpler in the past because the genders followed roles prescribed by society. All that seems to be getting erased now so it doesn’t appear to be as simple to us now, but perhaps it is better and healthier…</p>
<p>NJSue - Middle school kids shouldn’t be having sex in my opinion, of course. But college women - I don’t think many feel that way. You can have sex and still be in control of your sexuality without a relationship.</p>
No college-age young women in our family. But DS once said many of his friends (male or female) at their mid-sized college of around 5000 students agree that their college is not a good place for finding bf/gf and maintaining a serious relationship. He did not elaborate but I think it has something to do with the fact that today’s college students are working very hard to establish their future career paths and nowadays it takes longer to do this.</p>
<p>In his circle of friends of about two dozens of students, only two have found serious bf/gf in college (less than 10%.) Both couple were married soon after college. (Both are from well-to-do and very supportive families, as evidenced by their high priced, high quality prep high school background.) But one couple were divorced after only 2 years.</p>
<p>I believe DS is relatively conservative in this area and disapproves of the hook-up culture. A recent incident is that a girl showed an interests in starting a bf/gf relation with him and he thought it would not be a “match” and he would not commit to this relation. He therefore politely but firmly made it clear to her from the beginning. They still run into each other every now and then and greet to each other (and with no hard feeling toward each other), just because they live in the same dorm and may run into each other (but they are on a different floor.)</p>
<p>Interestingly, one of his friends who is in a conservative religion and conservative in life, and pro-life, have had at least two gf in 4 years. He had sexual relationship with both of them. But one girl was not willing to have a committed relation with him, and he did not want to have a serious relation with the other girl. Maybe he is more “attractive” so he is in high demand. LOL.</p>
<p>I agree, but I mentioned the younger girls because I think that attitudes towards sex are embedded pretty early. There are a lot of young women out there who are afraid that they will be alone in life if they don’t have almost immediate sex with a potential boyfriend. I don’t think that’s a healthy motivation for sex.</p>
<p>NJSue- I agree entirely. I don’t see the hook up culture as good for women. And I am a liberal feminist.</p>
<p>I am secretly glad that D met a great guy back in HS and they dated all through college (they are both recent graduates, from different schools). They are in a serious relationship so she has not really been involved personally with the hook up culture, but some of her friends have and she has seen that it has not been a good thing and that these girls frequently end up feeling used and cheated out of having real relationships with guys.</p>
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<p>I totally don’t get why he would ask her father after living together. Seems kind of silly to me.</p>
<p>From my own observations as someone growing up in “that generation”:</p>
<p>That whole if-I-don’t-sleep-with-him-he’ll-leave seems to diminish considerably with education. The further along we got, the less I saw it. I do see it in many people who never finished or only finished high school but that seems to cut across generations. </p>
<p>I think the majority of people want attachments with sex. “**** buddies” are not as common as many people think… they’re largely just glorified and overdramatized by pop culture. </p>
<p>I was raised by a pretty progressive mom who was raised by a pretty progressive mom herself so I’m third generation of believing in pretty casual sex practices. Waiting until marriage for sex or cohabitation was never part of my upbringing. It never really even crossed my mind as a possibility and in fact my parents encouraged the opposite. IMO, I think I’m a few years ahead as we seem to be in a transition. I still know people who would never live with someone before marriage and those who must live with someone before (and with cohabitation I’m including premarital sex). I think in a generation that those who are in the former category will be a fairly small minority.</p>
<p>OTOH, I think we are the most sexualized generation in American history. Sex is pushed so, so, so young on us that it’s causing major self-esteem and body image issues. I don’t know what the answer is, but I think it’s improving with this generation of parents who can actually talk openly to their kids about sex. I know that it’s not something most of my mom’s friends parents did so I’m going to assume it was more “normal” to not talk about it as openly as it is now.</p>
<p>I think I’ve been able to observe rather than be sucked in to the culture so it’s definitely given me a different perspective. I’ve had two long-term relationships back to back so I’ve never had to worry about the hook up culture. I have been able to observe it instead.</p>
<p>Unless there’s a physical issue, I don’t think it’s hard to find a hook up. There’s always a few people if you’re desperate enough (not to be crude, but that’s reality).</p>
<p>beachlover: Even the nerdiest dungeons and dragons/anime/whatever your passion kid is desired by someone, you just have to find them. </p>
<p>Given that I fit into this age bracket, I get it. I didn’t really date too much in high school, as I was too busy with sports and thought my peers weren’t on my level. In college, I wanted to figure out what I liked across the board–and what I didn’t like. I didn’t know what qualities I wanted and what annoyed the bajeezus out of me, so I took time to figure out what those things were. </p>
<p>With that, yeah, I hooked up with people, but I’m not ashamed of it. It wasn’t every weekend with a different guy and I never felt judged for it, but I did it. Honestly, I feel like I know myself and my preferences better for it. I was always safe, and it was never with random guys, so why be ashamed? I would never have known who the right person was for me without all of the ‘wrong’ experiences to teach me what ‘wrong’ was.</p>
