I just skimmed my way through and a nice thread. My daughter went from one Lac and transferred as a junior to another Lac (but with large merit). She just gave a presentation about her study abroad and her research she did. About 10 students were presenting. Many students and parents were there… My daughter had 3 professors come and ask question. They left after her presentation. I thought that was awesome. She had dinner at one of their houses with another student and had coffee to discuss some project with the other ones. She said she really likes Lacs since you can open up in discussions and go more in depth on the subject matter at hand.
@socaldad2002 , what? Maybe “these kids” didn’t come out of their shell for any number of reasons: They weren’t intellectually stimulated, or they were a nerd, or they were quiet (my kid), or their teacher played favorites, or they were bored in class, or the teacher didn’t care, or who knows? And yes, maybe they needed to mature, but perhaps they feel comfortable at their chosen college or university and they finally feel they are amongst people who are looking for the same thing as they are. So they learn to open up. Many colleges are populated with students who specifically choose that environment. It’s hard to say the same of high school.
@Knowsstuff my daughter had the same experience at her flagship. All students who do a study abroad and receive a scholarship (basically all students) have to give back by presenting about their experience either to more students or in specific classes.
College is an eye-opening experience, no matter where you go. My kids did look at a few LACs but knew immediately they weren’t for us. I’ve had lots of relatives who attended and they worked out for some but not for others.
@twoinanddone that’s awesome. My daughter’s presentation was not just study abroad and her presenting had nothing to do with a scholarship.
She was presenting research she did while there. The professors just came to listen to her and then left so they were not there for the other students. I just thought that was cool. These were personal connections that she made.
My sons at a Big Ten university but he has made it small by starting a club and getting very involved in campus /school life.
Both kids have grown in different ways. Both are having excellent learning experiences.
The point of this thread seemed to be, in the OP “even if you’ve not heard from them, don’t discount LACs right off the bat, dig into it visit”.
Many students simply haven’t heard of them or don’t know they’re a big deal. (Last year there was a student who’s gotten into Pomona - I think- and realized by our messages what a big deal it was, until then they assumed it was a small school akin to a regional college since s/he’d not heard of it.)
Most know their flagship.
As for those who’ve heard of them, many worry it doesn’t lead to a job or only covers Humanities.
We really didn’t either until looking for colleges for my daughter. After traveling and visiting our share through out the United States we were amazed of how many great Lacs there truly were.
@Lindagaf <<reason 9:="" many="" of="" them="" are="" very="" generous="" with="" financial="" aid,="" and="" or="" have="" lots="" merit="" scholarships,="" making="" reasonably="" affordable.="" they="" can="" be="" more="" affordable="" than="" a="" public="" university.="">>
I have to disagree with Reason 9, as it was not our experience. IMO, LACs are for families wealthy enough to be full pay or low income enough to receive generous need-based aid. But not for the donut hole families like mine, where the merit aid offered was not nearly enough to bring the cost down to a comparable range with our in-state SUNY public college/university options. We looked at several of the Best National Liberal Arts Colleges (top 50) in USNews&WR, where the cost of attendance are mostly in the $70,000 range (tuition/fees in the $53,000–$55,000 range, plus $13,000 for Room & Board, plus travel, and miscellany). We found that $20,000 to $25,000 merit aid seemed to be at the top range of merit money offered to the most qualified or desired applicants who fit within the top 25% of class profile, but that amount was not so easy to obtain. And even with receiving that large merit aid, the cost of attendance would still be close to $50,000. Thats not a yearly cost (for four years) that most families can afford to pay. So what is affordable? Although the answer will differ depending on family circumstances, its mostly the in-state public options, or the out-of-state public universities that offered large discounted tuition for high-state out-of-state students as an inducement to attend, thus making the cost of attendance close to what the in-state public university options cost.
Another point on easy access to professors. It isn’t just about small class sizes and office hours. It is the small random interactions that occur on a small campus. When I was an undergrad some of the best interactions I had were in the library where professors would go to read the newspapers. I was the work-study student that put all of the papers out each day and regularly had great conversations with several emeritus professors. I had friends that played in a lunchtime basketball game with several of their professors.
I had 1 professor where the papers were due by midnight and starting at 7PM he would be in the campus pub and when you turned in your paper he would buy you a beer.
One other thing about LAC discussions on these forums is that public LACs (such as those listed at http://coplac.org/members/ ) tend to have much less visibility here than private LACs.
@ucbalumnus A reason the public LACs (such as those you list on the link you provided) have much less visibility here than private LACs is that high achieving students with top credentials (as many of them who are on College Confidential) would never want to apply to those colleges. Those schools reputations are not prestigious enough and the student profile at most of those public LACs (with a few exceptions) does not compare with the caliber of student at the top private LACs.
Like many threads on CC, this is becoming a turf war (LAC vs. large University). I believe the OP’s intent was to simply state the benefits her kid has enjoyed at an LAC and shed some light on the category to those who are unfamiliar.
This rings true in our world as the vast majority of parents and their kids that we know attended or attend one of several large state universities in our area (FL). Nothing wrong with that or those schools. Our son attends a small highly selective school (not technically an LAC but acts and feels like one) and the points OP make certainly reflect S’s experience.
I attended a large state flagship up north in the early 80s. I know a lot has changed at many schools (fancy dorms, incredible fitness facilities, study lounges, etc.) That said, his environment is very different than what I had, and looking back, I would have loved to attended a school like his because of the intimacy and overall quality of everything, including the student body. To me that creates an environment that is very stimulating. Yes I know you will find many very bright kids at the large state schools. No one is arguing that. But having been one of them and experiencing that I view S’s environment / experience quite different and on a whole other level. I view it as an ecosystem for highly intelligent / motivated kids.
And
With respect to early career salaries, many NESCAC graduates, for example, receive offers similar to those from highly regarded national universities with comparable curricula such as Chicago:
UChicago: $57,700
Hamilton: 57,400
Williams: 56,600
Amherst: 55,700
Bowdoin: 55,500
Thanks, @rickle1 . I don’t know why people think this is about bashing universities and glorifying small colleges.
I think is now the 5th time I have reiterated that I posted to raise awareness of LAC’s. The title says your child should CONSIDER them. I also said they aren’t for everyone, that many people simply don’t know they exist, that some people think they don’t lead to jobs, and that they offer benefits. I didn’t say none of the things I listed can be found at a university. I did not say they definitely offer better financial aid, I said they CAN be affordable, @trackmbe3 , implying that people shouldn’t automatically assume they are more expensive. I’m wondering how many people actually read my original post.
I will try again:
Parents, are you looking for college options for your child? Consider LAC’s! Maybe you don’t know anything about them, so have a look.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you.
I agree it was not the OP’s intent to bash universities, but when people post things like this:
Then you are going to have others who counter that. It doesn’t just happen at “top LACs.”
@oldfort , glad you pointed that out! But I didn’t say that, so perhaps you can start your own thread to let people know that they can consider universities in their college search. Can we stay on topic please?
First of all, happy thanksgiving to all! A sense of community and acts of sharing and giveback are what makes CC so great. I am thankful for being part of this community.
Back to the original topic, I think many parents and students do consider LAC schools for many of the good reasons mentioned. It is just a common pattern that those considerations do not lead to actual applications or enrollments at the same rate as that for national / large universities. Two factors IMHO:
(1) While many students know what majors or objectives they want to pursue in college, many don’t. From a practical perspective, a typical family would probably lean toward a major commonly tied with a good job prospect, e.g. engineering, technology, business, etc. Thus LAC schools are getting filtered out.
(2) Like it or not, name recognition carries weight and is often a factor of tuition payer’s ROI assessment. To the general public, name recognition from a large university is generally greater than that from a LAC school.
However, your post #0 made several claims that are not unique enough to LACs to generalize about, but vary considerably by individual school (LAC or non-LAC). Those extraneous claims make it look like you are LAC-cheerleading, rather than focusing on those points where LACs generally do differ from other schools.
I won’t be offended by “normal” family. Lol!
@ucbalmnus I could have said in my OP “Parents, look at LACs” and hit post. Perhaps I should have, given your criticism. Did I claim at any point that LACs offer those things,and universities don’t? Did you consider that I posted because I wanted to provide positive context for why people might want to think about them?
This post has unfortunately devolved into nothing to do with the intent and has instead become a platform for some to decry the lmitations of LAC’s. This site is about College, and I was trying to make people aware of other options. Why people took offense at that is beyond me.
“I feel that her college is worth every penny and that she simply would have NEVER been able to make progress and evolve if she had gone to a bigger university.”
The reason you have some posters disagreeing is the premise that (your) shy and introverted student could NEVER make progress at a bigger university. I’m glad she is thriving at her LAC but IMO students can find their stride at many colleges, big and small, and have seen kids that matured greatly from their high school days.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Some as the aspects that the OP states can be found at a larger university, and some of the aspects may not be found at every LAC. I get it. However, her point(s) were: (A) You might want to look at LACs and (B) this worked for my kid and she (the DD) is happy with her choice. Recognizing that what worked for her kid will not work for yours is fine and dandy, but let’s not debate her premise point by point. And please do not link charts/rankings/etc.