<p>EMM - Somewhere upthread I posted my real-world data points on something akin to your “thought experiment”. Not a valid sample, of course, but it depended how close the choices were. Yale with a “trust fund” of -$100,000 won over BU, but kids chose more-comparable schools over Penn and Columbia with a similar cost. For the most part, these were non-affluent kids who took any debt they would have to incur very seriously, since there was no source of repayment other than they.</p>
<p>Out of curiosity, I can see that it would be easy to figure out if someone is on finaid; but would others know if one is on merit aid, let alone a full-ride? To me, it’s a bit like SAT scores. If some students are in advanced math classes, chances are high that they scored high on the SAT-math; but they don’t wear their SAT scores on their forehead. So, how many students know how much finaid one is getting and on what grounds? Do students in non-Honors programs know whether one is in an Honors program?</p>
<p>At many schools, there are special Honors dorms, so if someone lives there, it means they are in the Honors program. (Conversely, I believe Honors students can choose NOT to live in the Honors dorms if they do not want to.)</p>
<p>Lukester, where you been , boss? Glad to hear the boy is doing well. I mentioned that China trip the kid got to take before fall semester freshman year. (That was him , right? LOL) as an example of aother things that sometimes come with big scholarships. </p>
<p>And BookAddict, if you keep this up I may have to buy you lunch. Or adopt you. ;)</p>
<p>And yup, I am a pot stirrer when I am motivated to do so. I admit it. Where are the twelve step groups for that?</p>
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Honors dorms, yes. Also, they take Honors classes and get to register early, so if discussion about either of those things come up, others know that one is in an honors program.</p>
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<p>Now that is lesser known information. Many of my closer friends know about my scholarship, but that’s because they know I’m a NMF (due to a couple of events I’ve attended) and all NMFs get full-tuition scholarships. Other people know I have a nice sholarship (though they don’t know what kind) because it’s come out in conversations about living expenses or reasons why I’m here. But yeah, I can tell a lot of times if a person gets some sort of aid (after awhile, it generally comes out in conversations), but I don’t know specifics since most don’t go around broadcasting that they have a scholarship.</p>
<p>MotherofTwo:</p>
<p>I get it about the honors dorm. My question is more about non-honors students knowing which are in honors program and students knowing about the finaid status of other students.</p>
<p>EDIT: crossposted with BookAddict (whose posts I am enjoying very much btw)
That’s what I was driving at, thanks.</p>
<p>marite, D was of a mind to never tell anyone about her award so that there would never be any positives or negatives among the students. Anger or awe. Day one, move in day, well before classes started it was announced by her PA to the dorm. So much for that plan. Admittedly, there is something of a target (and crown) these kids have on their back (and head). The profs all know and I think they expect a lot out of those kids. I know the administration does and they are very upfront about it.</p>
<p>When D was asked at a scholarship function on campus what award she received she looked squarely at the person and said “A good one.” ;)</p>
<p>Edit: marite, I think this only applies to the 3 kids a year who get the award my kid got. Not to the couple hundred who got other awards. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.</p>
<p>Cur, I get a kick out of your daughter! Good for her.</p>
<p>Marite - What I was trying to say is that if it came up in conversation which dorm people live in, it would be obvious that someone is in the Honors program if they say they live in that dorm, even if they wish to avoid “broadcasting” their honors status.</p>
<p>Curm - One of my son’s h.s. classmates got a perfect score on his SAT and this was well known at our h.s. He wanted to make a “fresh start” at college, but at the orientation session (I believe with parents present), it was announced that XXXX, who is a member of our entering class, earned perfect a SAT score :eek:</p>
<p>Lukester, if you could give a few more details about your son, what he is majoring in, what he looked for in terms of size, location, atmosphere, i.e. what a priori might have signaled to you that in his case this was not a decision he would regret?</p>
<p>Or was it just that the debt would have been such a burden in his/your mind that the question of “fit” didn’t matter?</p>
<p>I think these details are the helpful pieces.</p>
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<p>I love it!</p>
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<p>Exactly the same moment. LOL. D was horrified to see her stealth plan sink so fast.</p>
<p>I have been lurking for a while, and I am the mom of a very bright underachiever. He has taken the PSATs and will probably end up with a 1450 to 1475 SAT, without the writing section. He is now in a small noncompetitive high school - he has taken the hardest courses offered, even skipping a year of Global history (got a 100 on the Regents without the second year) and taking AP US History as a 10th grader (and he got a 5 on it) Having said that, his average has gone from a 94 in major subjects in 9th grade, to an 89 this year.</p>
<p>His average may have gone down because he loves to socialize, plays 3 sports, is on an Quiz Bowl team that has gone to the Nationals for the second year in a row (from a little HS with 400 kids), is on a ski team that practices every Sat and Sun from November to April and every holiday (even though he is NOT a good ski racer, he still loves it) and has about 10 other activities. It also may be because he is with lots of kids who are not motivated, and he goes with the flow.</p>
<p>So what kind of school is best for him? A reach, one that matches his SATs where the kids work really hard? He is a passionate learner, loves history and Chemistry, will talk all day to anyone about WWII, or the periodic table, but will do his homework on his own time, so is he better at a little less competitive environment, where he is the big cheese but the conversation/intellectual stimulation is not as good? Has he not lived up to his potential because no one else does, or because he is bored?</p>
<p>These are the kinds of questions we are asking right now. Any ideas would be great!</p>
<p>Makes Olin look more enticing. Everybody is on equal footing with a full merit award—and they all know it.</p>
<p>calmom: I am very much aware that at need based schools, the different between the haves and have-nots can be glaring (I certainly experienced it when I went to school). I asked the question because I wasn’t familiar with the situation at schools that give merit and gap.</p>
<p>Cur, thanks for the answer – and I do find it interesting that your daughter’s first instinct was to keep her scholarship quiet. </p>
<p>I am very torn as to how I feel about all this. My gut-instinct is to prefer a need-based system. It bothers me that a school that gaps for some kids lavishes money on others – I wish the money could be spread more evenly. OTOH, I like the idea that hard work (as exemplified by Mudgette) is rewarded. </p>
<p>I’ll throw this anecdote into the mix (and this is OT, sorry): Last fall I was discussing colleges with a coworker whose daughter is also applying, and we were comparing safeties/matches/reaches. I said UVM was my daughter’s financial safety. Another coworker overheard this, and announced to everyone: “UVM is horrible with financial aid. My sister got nothing, and they wouldn’t give her anything even after we appealed.” She was clearly very upset with how this had worked out for her sister – who is a very very hard worker but just not academically gifted. Meanwhile, I know one of her sister’s classmates, whose parents are both professionals who earn enough money to put them in the tippy top of the income bracket, got a free ride. And I knew that if my daughter had applied to UVM, she probably would have gotten some merit money given her statistics. I didn’t dare tell my coworker about those students getting free rides at UVM, because that probably would have angered her even more. Frankly, I don’t know how state residents would feel knowing that tax money is going to give merit aid to high SAT scorers while lower income, lower stat kids aren’t able to attend because of gapping.</p>
<p>Adigal, thanks for posting.</p>
<p>“Has he not lived up to his potential because no one else does, or because he is bored?”</p>
<p>“His average may have gone down because he loves to socialize, plays 3 sports, is on an Quiz Bowl team that has gone to the Nationals for the second year in a row (from a little HS with 400 kids), is on a ski team that practices every Sat and Sun from November to April and every holiday (even though he is NOT a good ski racer, he still loves it) and has about 10 other activities.”</p>
<p>I don’t know your son, but it looks like he is living a full and enjoyable life. If he is a nice guy (I assume he is), then he looks like a great classmate to me. </p>
<p>Is he really bored and not living up to his potential? Or have you set some standards that are hard for a person to meet?</p>
<p>I would rather my kids would get an 89 and participate in many activites (and also have some downtime) then get a 94, and not have time for the things they love.</p>
<p>I’d like to see my kids get an 89. Period. :)</p>
<p>There are many schools where he can thrive. Hopefully, somebody will give you suggestions.</p>
<p>slyvt:I could be wrong but it seems like many schools do a good job of meeting instate needs and providing merit non-need opportunites, some of which are actually funded out of contributions etc. Also, not knowing specific family financial situations it is often hard to really know if a school is "tight with " aid money or “screwed” someone on aid- what you see or hear may only tell part of the story. Even in need-only schools the amounts and policies are all over the place.</p>
<p>Thanks for the reply! He is actually a great kid, he met some professors when we went to visit some LACs, and a few of them wrote to him, asking him to be sure to apply, but they didn’t see his drop in grades through junior year. And he is taking tough courses - a college History course offered in school, pre-calc Honors, Honors English, and a full load, plus his extracurriculars. But with his ability and love of learning, he should at least be in the 90s in this district; even with his lower average, he is 4th out of 100 kids, which shows how unmotivated the kids are. So I do wonder if he is better in a LAC that is not as intense, or if he should try for the Bowdoin/Wesleyan type of school or a good school, just a little less intense, like a Skidmore College. My major concern is not name of school - my major concern is fit, but I am not sure what type of fit is good for him, so I am looking for parents’ experiences with different kids and different colleges.</p>
<p>And thanks again!</p>
<p>Adigal, I would suggest a college with some flexibility – a place where there will be opportunities for your son if he gets motivated, but where he can also do well if he decides that he wants to go skiing every weekend. Obviously that describes many colleges… but I think the thing I learned in hindsight with my son was that the habit of inconsistent performance (sometimes really intensely focused, sometimes not) continued. If he cares, he cares a lot… if he doesn’t care, he doesn’t bother. Whether or not he like the professor can make a huge difference. The problem was that he picked a college that didn’t offer much flexibility in terms of the number of courses he could take each semester, and it didn’t offer much in the way of AP credit, so he couldn’t make up for a bad semester by taking an extra course the next semester. </p>
<p>So let him apply to a good range of schools, but when it comes down to making the selection, look very closely how the college will fit either way. </p>
<p>I don’t think “bored” really is a good reason for not doing well. I am saying that as a parent of a kid a lot like yours (high scorer but sometimes slacker) - and he certainly complained of boredom a lot – and to this day I hear the “boredom” excuse for shoddy work. But I’ve got a daughter who had more reason to be “bored” through school than he ever did… but she never was – she just has a different attitude. If she is bored with something, she just buckles down and does it – or, more commonly, she finds a way to make it interesting. She’s rather prone to spending time producing fancy artwork or report covers for papers that do not require artwork – she even included an illustration with her U. of Chicago essay. </p>
<p>I think the issue is not “boredom” but lack of “engagement” – and part of the engagement really does start with attitude. I’m not saying that it is something to fault the kid for – I think its simply an innate personality difference – but I don’t think you can count on the “bored” kid suddenly finding his motivation if he lands in a more challenging environment. He may… but then again he may not.</p>
<p>My son did eventually find his mojo – I saw him work intensively and frenetically for 2 solid years, long hours, early to rise late to bed, etc. – but he happened to find that in a work environment outside of school. At least he knows what he wants to do for a living now, so he’s way ahead of the game in that respect.</p>
<p>Calmom: I see a lot of second born or later males who seem to be less engaged (maybe a maturity thing). Often they are “late bloomers” who in college or later get motivated by "something " and are on their way. In the mean time the parents worry a lot.</p>