<p>Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply! I think you hit the nail on the head with my son - the lack of engagement. In this small rural school, there is a lack of intellectual engagement. Lots and lots of social engagement, among both the students and the teachers, but not a lot of intellectual discussion or cultural activities. With those teachers who love their subjects and are passionate about them, like his AP history teacher and his chemistry teacher, he does great, lots of classroom back and forth, and does all his work. But rote work makes him crazy, too, so it is slacker behavior too.
So in a LAC a little down the ladder, say top 100 instead of top 50, is there still lots of intellectual engagement? Is there back and forth between the professors and the interested students, and among the students themselves? This is where I worry about him, and his choices. And he does like the smaller LACs as opposed to the big universities, so that, and finances, are both considerations.
Again, much thanks for the reply. :)</p>
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<p>Yep. She’s not real brag-gy. Competitive as all Hell…but not real braggy. Walk softly and all that. She’s the type in sports that will help you up but post up just as hard on you the next time and send you flying again. 
Like I said she didn’t want the positive or negative attributes. </p>
<p>To delve more deeply into the psyche of a teenage girl- a quagmire for a 50 year old male if there ever was one - I think most of her stealth plan was social in motivation. She didn’t date much (or really any serious dating) in high school. She was the smart tall girl that just might whip your scrawny :eek:. She once was referred to in grade school as “That girl who was smarter than the teachers” and as Ms. Shaq btw. In fact one kid thought she WAS the teacher. No joke. Not a real dating plus among our high school guys. They all liked her and thought she was pretty, but they were afraid of her to be blunt.</p>
<p>She was determined to reinvent herself as a more approachable girl in college. Not less intimidating really, just less of a rep. If you know what I mean. But I’m a guy, what the heck do I know about that stuff?</p>
<p>Edit: Sly if you were thinking she was in stealth mode because she felt guilty for the scholarship she earned, and I am not sure that’s what you meant, you really ought to meet her. You wouldn’t think that again. LOL.</p>
<p>sly_vt --my guess is that at a school like Rhodes that gaps, a lot of the students who have the big gaps just don’t come – so Rhodes probably simply loses the lower end of the spectrum of the financially needy students. I’m sure it probably leverages its aid as well, with the biggest gaps to the weakest applicants. Those that come with the gaps probably have found the resources to make it happen.</p>
<p>I say that because I don’t think Rhodes has quite the pull that a school like NYU seems to have – where I see student who seem willing to go at any level of debt. While there may be a few kids who want Rhodes so badly that their families will sacrifice to put them there, the equation of Rhodes vs. in-state public isn’t quite the same as the equation between Harvard vs. in-state public. </p>
<p>Also, there’s plenty of “gapping” and an favoritism going on at full-need schools, too – they just don’t call it that. But there are kids who get loan-free packages with their need fully met, and there are kids who get supposed “full need” packages that require them to pay $10 or $15K more than their FAFSA EFC – so there is still a big dichotomy in the way aid is calculated at those schools. I mean, I personally feel frustrated and resentful over the “deadbeat dad tax” I’m stuck with (dad’s income added into the calculation, so I get to pay both our shares) - whereas kids from 2-parent households only have to pay based on what they actually have. But I don’t think my d. goes around resenting every kid who comes from a 2 parent home. It’s just the way things are and you deal with it.</p>
<p>oldolddad – my son is my first born.</p>
<p>My younger child is more engaged partly because she competes with him. He’s pretty laid back, but her whole life its been, everything he can do she wants to do better. There’s a certain element of one-upmanship in everything she does.</p>
<p>I also am facing this same situation. Well, depending on where I get into school (still waiting on 5 prestigious schools admissions decisions). I just received a $32k scholarship to the #1 Master’s university in the south, but it still isn’t at the level the other five schools are at. I’m probably going to end up picking it though, because my parents said they would pay for $12-15k per year, which happens to be what I have left after the scholarship to pay vs. $45k per year at any of my other five. Upper middle class America=no aid even though $45k is incomprehensible to most of us.</p>
<p>Re: need-based schools vs. merit based. I am very thankful for merit-based schools, personally. According to aid calculators, based on income, etc, we should qualify for a good bit of aid next year, with two in college. However, FAFSA uses W-2 only, and our W-2 includes the money my H’s company paid for our overseas move, plane flights, language training, cost-of-living-adjustment, housing equalization, tax equalization (to reimburse us for having to pay taxes on extra income in two countries), and so on. FAFSA says we can pay over $65k, so schools are not offering us any need at all. Sending D to school next year is going to be tough. D is not the super star who gets full rides anywhere, and her choice of major is not available locally. I do not resent folks at all who earn super merit awards. I do wince inside when I see truly wealthy people playing games to up their need. Salt in the wound.</p>
<p>Sorry for the off-topic. Just had to comment on the issue brought up on the last page. (Probably several pages by now!)</p>
<p>Adigal - you might want to start your own thread with this question. People here generally love to offer that kind of advice and this thread is a little long to find your question lol.</p>
<p>sly, BTW Rhodes is pretty good on FA. Just not to the elite school levels with every kid. I remember seeing an 85% of need met “on average” , for what that’s worth. Much better than all but a few dozen schools. But I do wish it could be 100% while retaining the merit program (which may very well be considered as middle class FA by some, including me). edit: and by erhswimming’s last post, by their family also. ;)</p>
<p>Adigal, I’m not really familiar with lower-down-the-ladder LACS – I was speaking more of the particular policies of my son’s LAC as to how many courses could be taken each semester, etc. If it is a matter of deciding to work for the profs (or teachers) that he likes and slacking off if he doesn’t like the lectures or assignments – which my son still does – then the problem is going to exist wherever he goes. Every college has a few really great profs, some really terrible ones, and a whole lot who are in-between. </p>
<p>My son is at a mid-size public now, and most of his classes are smaller than typical classes at elite colleges, but he does have more flexibility. He plans to graduate a semester early and will probably need to take a couple of classes in summer school to make it happen – and the advantage of the public university is that they have a summer session and it’s all very affordable. He’s got all A’s and is applying for some sort of merit award based on his commitment to community service – I know he has some classes he really likes but he can also get away with slacking off in a class and still get an A, so at this point its down to how much work he wants to put in. </p>
<p>I would suggest keeping an open mind to mid-size colleges – someone above posted the comment that a big school can be made to feel like a small school, but a small school can never be made to feel big… and I do think that another issue with my son’s LAC was limited growth potential for him. He simply wasn’t the same person at age 20 that he was at 18, and there was no place for him really to go within that school when he needed a change. </p>
<p>He went to a LAC with about 1200 students and there was another LAC, much farther down the selectivity ladder, that has around 2000 students (so more classes & course offerings to choose from)… which in hindsight is where he should have gone. He tried to get back in to that one as a transfer, but he was waitlisted and the financial aid wasn’t there for him any more in any case.</p>
<p>Cur, Sorry, but I did poke. If your D is working with Miller, my congratulation. I don’t know her personally but I do know her postdoct advisor Fred Cross. It is a great experimental system and is very appropriate for trainning undergrads.</p>
<p>calmom: Your family is just an outlier in my second born male slacker study! Actually, our family is kind of different too. I find it so fun to have sibs in classes and see how different they are from one another.</p>
<p>Calmom, I think your son’s story deserves it’s own thread. I love to hear about kids who take a little longer to find their way, but come out okay – or even more-than-okay – as your son did.</p>
<p>Sometimes the CC world is a little removed from most kids’ experiences. Not every student – even the really bright ones – are motivated in high school or know exactly what their path in life is meant to be. Stories that tell about kids who took a more circuitous path are more inspiring in many ways. I also think that the pressure of selective college admissions can sometimes eliminate the daydreamy aspects of adolescence or the chance to make mistakes and still recover.</p>
<p>calmom and oldolddad: my second born, a son, is quite “unengaged”- so long as he gets a ‘b’ he’s just peachy fine. Now, that b could happen in a rigorous honors course (be it math, science or english) or in a mixed class of all abilities (history, cooking, journalism)- evidently, the only class it is important to get an “a” in is gym (I guess a “b” just wouldn’t be macho enough). Because of our district’s gifted screening program, we know numbers – and he is identical in school ability potential as his older sibling (the one making the decision between MIT & Penn State honors), yet he is not identified as “gifted” as that, in our district, requires a demonstration of academic motivation. However, he’d just rather not…it just isn’t his thing. I am struggling to wait it out - apologizing every other day for asking in a really loud almost irrational voice if he really doesn’t have homework or is just choosing not to do it (a choice he makes a lot, which explains his “b”'s). I know, based on personal experience, that people kick it in gear when they are good and ready … I am already envisioning the kind of college he needs to go to – a big state u is out – too much anonymity – he needs teachers who, if for no other reason than small class size, may notice his absence from class and maybe, maybe, might send an e-mail to inquire as to his whereabouts… another possiblity is to make him work for a few years until he decides it’s time to get motivated. I just hope my definitely dwindling supply of patience survives this one … theres 2 more after him. :)</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>Thank you - I understand what you are saying about that. Some of the LACs (well, one that we looked at) are a little bigger, so that is a possibility. Also, the Univ. of Rochester is not too big, either. Thanks,</p>
<p>oldolddad – way off topic, but it used to be tough some times on my daughter when she would have the same teacher in elementary school that her brother had, 5 years before her. He was too much of a troublemaker, so they’d treat her terribly from the get go – it would take her many weeks to convince some of them that she was not like him. Probably a good choice, in hindsight, to go to an entirely different, out-of-district high school.</p>
<p>symom,I totally agree. For some kids the lightbulb finally comes on in college and they are unstoppable. On the other hand, some of the high achieving kids just finally burn out for awhile from the nonstop inner competition and need a break.</p>
<p>I MADE IT! It took me three days, but I have read all 635 posts!</p>
<p>I got nothin’ to add, but you all have given me a lot to think about over the next few weeks before S makes his decision. </p>
<p>Thanks–I enjoyed the civil posts a lot.</p>
<p>EDIT- OK, 637. Movin’ right along…</p>
<p>momcubed: I see so many bright, really neat kids like this. I usually end up counseling parents that it is better to have a kid like this than one who is getting into a lot of problems. For many they see high school as a necessary evil, something they have to do. They may just not like the “game”. But man often when I see them a few years after graduation it is amiazing the transformation. From my perspctive all you can do is set the bar high and care and be patient. It usually turns out okay.</p>
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uuhhhhhh…of course not…</p>
<p>Check your p.m.'s. I’ll give you a poking around shortcut.</p>