<p>
First thing that came to mind here, too! I was imagining hundreds of water rings on the veneer, overflowing ashtrays & empty pizza cartons, a pair of boxer shorts hanging over the frame. Not to mention hiring a piano tuner once every decade or so.</p>
<p>jmmom: Great post. But maybe that is because from my bubble perspective I agree with it! I may be looking through a rose colored bubble though.
Maybe the problem is calling them “elites” in the first place --sounds sort of —elitist. Why not a new name like the uberglurb group of schools… Na,doesn’t sound so special.</p>
<p>Great poem, Dad o 2.
But your kids are headed to Podunk U.
Boo Hoo.</p>
<p>jmmom, great post.</p>
<p>But you knew I would say that. </p>
<p>I would take it even further than you. I don’t know why we have to stop at schools like Brandeis, Rhodes and honors at State Us.</p>
<p>I’m highlighting the following.</p>
<p>"Here is what troubles me: the presumption, assumption or conclusion that you will be hard-pressed to find those traits at the next level of school in any reasonable proportion. That should you, or your child, choose this next level of school - for whatever reason - s/he is sacrificing the ability to mix with peers in any of these realms.</p>
<p>Other things trouble me, too, about this thread:
*that being around your SAT-score equals or superiors can be enriching as can being around talented artists, musicians, writers, etc.;
*but the belief that 18-22 year olds have little (or nothing) to gain from interaction with their academic inferiors and may even be dragged down by them;
*the belief that 18-22 year olds are too young to benefit from what other populations might bring to the table - a larger group of kids coming from less advantaged life experiences; a larger group of kids whose “smarts” are not the academic kind but are “smarts” nonetheless;
*and, finally (maybe I shouldn’t even list this one because I am thinking (hoping) that it reflects maybe only one poster; but, oh, it has stuck with me), the view that those are super-achievers via innate gifts are more worthwhile to be around and better contributors to a vibrant intellectual life than those who have to work hard/study/think things over between classes in order to contribute."</p>
<p>I’m reposting the above because I like these and if people do believe your list, they are not “smarter than” in my definition. ;)</p>
<p>sticker shock: I just got back from a run and was eating cereal when I read your post. Milk shot through my nose onto the keyboard. I guess it was the boxer shorts.</p>
<p>
I think “HYPS” has the perfect ring for this, as long as it’s understood as a concept and not a finite list of schools.</p>
<p>jmmom, I agree – great post!</p>
<p>By the way, it was mom365 who mentioned the piano in the fraternity house. I only talked about hearing a pianist at Columbia, which of course has a connection to Juilliard. I do know that Dartmouth has a variety of wonderful pianos in the Hopkins Center for the Arts, but I don’t know about the fraternity houses.</p>
<p>OT – I just checked the website for the Hopkins center and one of my favorite groups, the LA Guitar Quartet, is performing there next month. They really have wonderful performances at the Hop! Last year, Garrick Ohlsson and Wynton Marsalis performed, and they have Pilobolus and the Handel and Haydn Society of Boston coming up soon. All the more reason to retire in a college town!</p>
<p>JHS, I don’t know. I’m really liking your posts today.</p>
<p>“HYPS”. I like that.</p>
<p>Great post, jmmom, and I apologize for my “snarky” post yesterday. </p>
<p>Also, re: StickerShock’s vision of the piano at Dartmouth, a very close friend of mine quit his Princeton eating club in 1975 because he was so disgusted after someone vomited on a new pool table at a party and ruined the surface.</p>
<p>jmmom - Really great post. Have been lurking through all 57 pages & 848 posts - sometimes pleased & sometimes really disturbed. What comes to mind is that until we find a way to clone our children and send the clones in two different directions, we will never know which was “best” or which offered opportunities/advantages not available at the other will we. I truly believe kids who have the option of elite vs some other school, in general, have the drive to find and take advantage of whatever opportunities exist wherever they are. The opportunities may be different, but does that make them better? To say, unequivocally, that one school offers things that could not be found somewhere else (aka not so elite) is just wrong. Ok I’ll continue lurking :-)</p>
<p>oldolddad - Oh, I thought you were talking about getting into music schools vs. medical! Actually, one can get a PhD from online schools in California with minimal training and practice and collect from insurance companies. It is harder for an M.D. to do that. I know ones who do that.</p>
<p>JHS, I liked your “degree” post. We are not that far apart if any.</p>
<p>mom365: I’ll see how she takes it if I mention that versus trying to get into UCSD or the like. No, I don’t think I will mention it. She probably doesn’t like the research opportunites online! She like the stuff going on in the med schools and such-- brain stuff.</p>
<p>jmmom: your post was timely, respectful and coherent and everything I have been feeling as I keep being drawn back into this discussion. There was one point today that I walked away and considered never returning ( yea, I know, no great loss 
)</p>
<p>jmmom - oh it felt so good to read your post. Thank you.
And not just because my son chose state U - we may have gone in totally different direction if the choices (including costs) were different. I certainly do recognize that there is some value to HYPS. But some of the posters on this site seem to overstate their value and - in the process - insult or downgrade others choices.<br>
It seems that some of these posters might live in my neighborhood - we have the same atitude here. Perhaps I should move…</p>
<p>A lot of times this discussion has been framed in terms of the “elite/next level or two down with merit money” decision . This thread , at its best, is trying to give advice to those for whom the decision may well be between “the next level or two down/a level or two below that with merit” decision, too. Lest we forget. It might even be helpful to get the “HYPS (to use it in the way suggested) even if you go bust” folks to weigh in on this other dynamic to see how things change when their target schools (and in some few cases whole raison d etre LOL) are not in the mix. Hmmmmm? </p>
<p>Tulane+UMiami at full pay/ TCU+Tulsa with substantial merit. Let’s see the analysis for a family that can struggle mightily with years of plus loans for full fare at Tulane or UMiami , or pay from savings and current income at TCU+Tulsa after substantial merit awards. This could be interesting .</p>
<p>crumudge: Good idea.
toneranger: I told D there were interesting parents on CC and it might be fun to meet some --especially one’s that think alike. She said “Dad, how do you know those are really parents? They could be young kids trying to lure unsuspecting oldold people to meet them and rob you or something.” Ha!</p>
<p>There was a recent study that claimed that only 4% of kids don’t go to their first choice college because of money. However, it’s clear that in some groups that is not the case. </p>
<p>I am wondering “who” it is that is facing this dilemma in the first place. We have the people with $2 million in the bank who don’t have to worry and people with a 0 EFC eho don’t have to worry (at the need blind elites). Who is it inbetween the extremes that worries most? Is it the family struggling to meet the $5000 EFC, the family struggling to meet the $25K EFC or the one that gets no aid at all?</p>
<p>Also, is there a most cited reason given by those who can’t meet EFC? I know it’s home equity for a lot of Californians. Then we have threads where we’re told it’s because the parents live large. On CC I’ve also seen many, many kids talk about their parents supporting elders. What are the other key reasons?</p>
<p>Are kids seeking merit money children of well educated people more often? It’s a fairly sophisticated task to execute a search that produces good results.</p>
<p>
:eek: Uh-uh. You ain’t going anywhere. We are in this to the death. Cry “Freedom” from tyranny. [O.K… Yes. Yes. We rented Braveheart for D to watch before she left. I’m actually not THAT crazy. I just want you to stick around. ]</p>
<p>
Not you. I do have my eye on O’loog, though. ;)</p>