<p>“Dad, how do you know those are really parents? They could be young kids trying to lure unsuspecting oldold people to meet them and rob you or something.” Ha!"</p>
<p>oldolddad -LOL- your daughter is a riot! Hey maybe I’m really in my 90s and trying to meet some young whippersnappers online :-)</p>
<p>Kirmum, I like your questions in post #858.</p>
<p>Why do people seek merit?</p>
<p>I would say health issues, job insecurities, financial obligations to parents, siblings, or other children, and retirement issues, would be on my list.</p>
<p>Then there are the parents who think the difference between one school over another might not be that great.</p>
<p>Or that schools in general are too expensive. Some people just don’t feel they can afford it, even if the EFC says they can.</p>
<p>Mom365 said, “One of the reasons you will hear top musicians at State schools is because that is all they do. Their grades are not good enough to get into a conservatory or an elite. I know several kids like this.”</p>
<p>OMG - just when I thought we had heard the worst of/from the worst, someone comes along and makes a statement that makes everyone gasp. </p>
<p>I’ve known many incredible musicians that have chosen state colleges - the key word here is “chosen”. </p>
<p>Can someone’s bubble really be this small?</p>
<p>jmmom - I agree, great post. Respecful and thoughtful. I don’t think there is a better person to have written this as you have seen all sides, most with the same kid.</p>
<p>HYPS-TYPE schools, great school but not HYPS-TYPE, LAC, and state school. Able to and currently paying full but not without some pain. Substantial scholarship money from great school that certainly helped eased parents burden but could have and would have given it up and sent kid somewhere else if kid couldn’t find what he needed at scholarship school. A kid for whom “a life of the mind” does not equate to “a life of the soul” but who still needs that level of intellectual stimulation. </p>
<p>I think the broad experience level that most of the rest of this board doesn’t have is what makes your post so relevant. Thank You.</p>
<p>kirmum - I think it’s not so cut-and-dried as the balancing act we sometimes envision: in the right hand, the 1st-choice expensive school vs. in the left hand, the merit-$$ lesser choice school.</p>
<p>For some people, the entire search is cast from the outset for merit $$. They may never apply to an elite even though highly qualified with good chances. This was almost cur’s D, who added the elites, I believe, at the end.</p>
<p>For some (my family’s case), DS visited elites, planned to apply, applied early EA to Tulane, which he liked as well or better than the visited elites and, totally unexpectedly, got great merit $$. He dropped all other schools (higher and lower on the rankings pantheon), save for one elite with legacy. He wasn’t accepted. During the intervening months between the EA $$ and the RD rejection, neither he nor we knew how he’d choose. Our wallets leaned in one direction; our hearts and minds didn’t know where to lean. Later, my kid transferred to an elite due to Katrina. Tulane was a better fit <em>for him.</em> Partially explaining my POV.</p>
<p>I think you will find some families with the EvilRobot 1st choice vs. $$ dilemma. For others the picture is much more clouded.</p>
<p>I do think it frequently involves the struggle to meet a fairly high EFC (based on what I read here on cc). In other cases, it’s “not about the money” in an affordability sense. We could (and now do) pay full freight. Our EFC>COA at any school. The money, whilst we had it, was delightful. But there is a whole other dynamic at play, which has been discussed somewhat on this thread. The money comes along with courtship of the kid, knowing they are really wanted, meeting their peers at special admitted students programs prior to the decision (that’s how we know you don’t have to go HYPS to find them 
), possible special opportunities at the school, contacts by Deans/profs/alums. It’s not all about the money.</p>
<p>The money is critical for some families. But please, please, please hear our point - those of us who have chosen the merit $$ over the “higher-ranked” school - it is so often NOT a sacrifice. They get to have it all. EXCEPT for the brand name so coveted by some.</p>
<p>I hear your point jmmom. The problem I have with it is my belief that it will take some time before everyone really knows if their choice was best, if ever. I agree with what a poster said a couple of pages back which is if it isn’t a money issue, taking the more elite school is a safer bet. </p>
<p>Does anyone think elite colleges are priced to keep them elite?</p>
<p>Yes, I’m not sure if you ever know whether it was the best choice - because “you can only go to one school.” Hah! My kid’s been at three. Gives us a unique ability to see which he liked better. I don’t think his case is all that extrapolate-able, because the non-elite great school was better for him for very unique-to-him reasons.</p>
<p>I think we all tend to believe our philosophy and choice of school is best. Cognitive dissonance and all that. </p>
<p>“Taking the more elite school is a safer bet.” Jeez. Why? Because you have to sacrifice finding quality academics and peers at a non-elite? I refer you back to my post #838. It is safer iff you fear loss of the name recognition, imo. And I get that. It’s why I said that DH and I didn’t know where our hearts and minds were when we thought DS might have to make that choice. But we know, from experience, that bragging rights and name recognition were all he would have lost. Not a quality experience.</p>
<p>As long as Princeton is hard to get into and certain segments of the population (smart, very rich kids) want to go there, it will remain elite. </p>
<p>The school can charge 0 or $100,000.</p>
<p>If Princeton said tomorrow, we want 50% of the student body to come from families making under $50,000, the school’s appeal would change.</p>
<p>I think one of the reason most of us read through all these posts is that we are trying to find the best match for our children. I doubt that anyone really questions the education to be found at one of the top ranked schools.</p>
<p>For those who will receive substantial financial aid - the difference in costs betweeen the different levels may not be an issue. The same may be said for some who pay full fare. </p>
<p>But, for many of us, due to the fact that the FAFSA/profile system doesn’t reflect our individual financial situation, the difference in paying full fare at an “elite” and receiving a full-ride at a “lesser” institution is an important consideration. </p>
<p>I think the attitude that anyone who gets accepted to HYPS should attend or that anyone who doesn’t attend is somehow less qualified is absurd. Likewise, the belief that the education offered at a “lesser” school is “less” and will have a lasting impact on your future life is rather sad.</p>
<p>That’s not my reasoning jmmom. </p>
<p>There have been several times in my career that I would have liked a job but knew not to bother trying although I was highly qualified. Were they gloing to make a black woman head of the Hong Kong office? Recently a long time client, who has put his new young wife through law school asked us to interview her, a sticky situation as though it’s really a good law school, we don’t hire from there.</p>
<p>That old boys clubs still dominate many career areas is not secret. This is what “I” mean by safer.</p>
<p>Sorry jmmom, I read half your post and then took a call. I see we’re in agreement. I may need serious merit aid if I don’t get back to work. How many of you are at work?</p>
<p>I am on board with the idea that between HYPS and some places not too far removed there’s not enough of a difference to warrant spending money that is hard for you find.</p>
<p>But if anyone wants to tell me that going to HYPS is going to be the same thing for a humanities major who wants to study literature of the French and Italian Renaissance as going to San Diego State would be —sorry, call me an elitist pig, running dog, snake or any other kind of loathsome creature but I don’t buy it. And, BTW, I did take some classes at San Diego State at one point so I am now talking about something I do have experience with.</p>
<p>Say the rational things, fine.</p>
<p>Take this there’s-nothing-special-about-anything and no-such-thing-as-smarter-than to the extreme and I confess, I begin to suspect that some of what gets said here is self-serving defensive trash.</p>
<p>Or maybe just incendiary contrarianism because some people like to see other people fume. </p>
<p>So. Having just lost any friends and/or admirers I ever had on this board, I exit stage left.</p>
<p>I agree with Alumother. Sorry, just another elitist piglet.</p>
<p>Kirmum - Aside from the sticky situation due to the person being married to your client, could your firm not make an exception and hire a graduate of a law school you do not normally hire from if the person is outstanding in every way and the school they attended is, as you said, a really good one?</p>
<p>“But if anyone wants to tell me that going to HYPS is going to be the same thing for a humanities major who wants to study literature of the French and Italian Renaissance as going to San Diego State would be —sorry, call me an elitist pig, running dog, snake or any other kind of loathsome creature but I don’t buy it. And, BTW, I did take some classes at San Diego State at one point so I am now talking about something I do have experience with”</p>
<p>I would go to HYPS over SDSU if I could afford it.</p>
<p>Point is people are equivocating HYPS and SDSU. We all understand financial considerations. But finances aside, the institutions are not comparable. I said this back at least 10, maybe 20 pages ago. I don’t know why we have to pretend they are.</p>
<p>alu, I didn’t think your post was half bad. As this thread goes , you’re a moderate. LOL.</p>
<p>I have repeatedly said I get the cost issue. Believe it or not, some people who grow up rich also grow up with some sense of humanity. If they try really really hard. I only argue with the it’s-all-the-same dialogue. If cost is critical, do what you have to do and guess what. You have as good a chance as anyone to achieve what you want to achieve no matter where you went to school. It’s America.</p>
<p>“I don’t know why we have to pretend they are.”</p>
<p>Allmusic, I don’t think we are. </p>
<p>I think Jmmom’s post about 30, 40, posts ago was a good summation.</p>
<p>I know that you think that Dstark! ;)</p>
<p>On the money issue I just want to remind folks about M. Jordan and his “gambling contriversy” that made all the news outlets when it was leaked that he gambled $10,000 a hole regularly on golf games. It subsided very quickly when some smart guy or gal did the math based on M.J.'s earnings and average Joe’s earnings and it came out to average Joe betting less than $10 a hole. Everything’s relative in this search. Even the value of HYPS.</p>