<p>
Find that person and we’ll all have a laugh at their expense. I don’t think they are here.</p>
<p>Nobody wants to take me up on UMiami +Tulane /TCU+ Tulsa with big merit? There is more “ranking” difference between them than there is between most schools we’ve been comparing. I really wanted to see the opinions when the HYPS schools were not in and ego and self-interest were out, at least for one side. Maybe the ego and self-interest will pop out on the other? Who knows? LOL. Or it may stay firmly affixed to both. Probably.</p>
<p>Well, considering how bad my putting is, betting $10 a hole is still too rich for my blood.</p>
<p>Maybe I’ve been reading a different thread, but who is suggesting that Harvard and Podunk U are the same quality? Did I miss something?</p>
<p>I’m coming down with a cold or something, so maybe I’m missing some subtle points in this conversation. Isn’t the whole point that the schools are not exactly comparable? And that financial considerations matter? I thought the question at hand is how much “fit” “eliteness” “selectivity” is someone willing to trade off for a great FA package?</p>
<p>In our case, if S had gotten something like a Presidential scholarship to BC, that’s probably where he’d be. All the extra perks – research, mentors etc – plus free tuition would make the comparison a no-brainer to me. Or if he’d gotten a big merit package from Duke, same story. He was accepted to a ton of great schools, including those two, but without better FA, there wasn’t any point in not taking one of the elite options. If we were willing to find a way to finance the private school options, then why not go for the name? Believe me, it wasn’t a simple decision. The merit aid he received was at two wonderful schools which just aren’t in the same stratosphere as Columbia or Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Alum, don’t leave. This board needs more people willing to speak any opinion that’s unpopular. There are so few.</p>
<p>Why is it so defensive? Everyone is confident in their choice which is great. I for one am hearing good things about schools I had never heard of before. I really do want to understand why people are motivated in certain ways.</p>
<p>If everyone stops writing “great post” after every post that validates their decision and we welcome every opinion, CC will be much more interesting.</p>
<p>Allmusic, I did want to take it further or farther than jmmom, but nobody will let me.</p>
<p>My kid doesn’t go to an honors college. ;)</p>
<p>I have to leave.
I’m curious.</p>
<p>I asked this in another thread. </p>
<p>One kid majors in math at the Univ. of Washington, and one kid majors in psychology at Harvard.</p>
<p>Does the kid who majors in math end up more educated in math and the kid who majors in psychology end up more educated in psychology?</p>
<p>That’s all I’m addressing with this question.</p>
<p>Gotta go. ( I hope gotta is ok. )</p>
<p>curmudgeon: What’s TCU?</p>
<p>First off, I just want to yell a HUGE “WOW” to this thread. I find it disconcerting on too many levels to count. I have stayed out of this discussion so far, and frankly, it’s against my better judgment to enter it now, but I think I have a somewhat unique perspective to add.</p>
<p>Many of the “oldtimers” are familiar with my son’s story of two years ago, but for those who may not be, I will summarize it. My son was a top student at a public school in a small town in Kansas. He had developed an INTENSE interest in and passion for the fields of epidemiology/infectious disease starting at around age six. Toward that end, he pursued this interest to the best of his own ability and with the limited resources available to him (even writing off to the CDC at age nine for packets on biosafety level 4 viruses and the operations of the CDC itself). He tore up our local library, reading every medical text it contained by age 10. He interviewed a local doctor, an AIDS specialist, when he was nine, and she became an inspiration and a mentor to him over the years.</p>
<p>Our background: There is no record of elite school attendance in our background. No legacy whatsoever. There was zero talk in our home of my son’s applying to any elite schools until his ACT scores came back in April of his junior year surprisingly high, especially given that he’d never taken a prep course for either the ACT or SAT and had instead, taken the test with the only preparation being one practice test completed the night before.</p>
<p>Long story short, he ended up rejected by three schools, waitlisted by two, and accepted to six, three of them considered elite. Ironically, his biggest merit offerings were from the more elite schools: The Hodson Scholarshp at JHU and the Vagelos Program at Penn (with its possibility of two years paid tuition). Duke accepted him, but with no merit offer. His lifelong love had been Duke…he’d dreamed of attending there since elementary school, but it never even approached the realm of a realistic goal as we thought 1.) that he’d most likely not be accepted, and 2.) that we would not be able to financially swing it.</p>
<p>Luckily for my son, the “need-based” aid that he received (much more than would EVER have been indicated on the FAFSA or the Profile) from Duke edged out the offers from everyone else, and since Duke was where his heart was, that is where he went. I was terribly worried at the time…worried that having come from a mediocre public h.s. in Kansas, he would not fit in academically with his classmates, worred that being from a solidly middle class family, he would feel “inferior” to those who came from more financially well-set homes, worried that “fantasy to reality can never to fantasy return”…that Duke would not ever measure up to his expectations of many years.</p>
<p>I am <em>so</em> happy to report that my worries have been unfounded. With three semesters reporting, my son is currently ranked in the top 2% of his class at Duke (not that I expect that to last, but hey, I’m thrilled! 
)! He has found interesting, friendly, engaging, and intelligent friends from ALL kinds of backgrounds. He and his roommate are BFF’s…nothing more to ask of that. The work has been challenging, at times frustrating, and often tedious. But he has risen to the challenge. Fantasy HAS been replaced with reality, yes, but that reality is pretty damn great! :)</p>
<p>My son is the ONLY one of his friends who went out of state to school. The rest of his friends, very high functioning on down, have remained in Kansas to attend school, either at the flagship U or another local U. There is definitely a difference in the workload/challenge between what he is doing and what his friends are doing. No comparison. I am not certain, however, which of his friends are or are not in the honors program at KU. That may certainly be a factor.</p>
<p>I can say with CERTAINTY that the decision my son made was the BEST ONE FOR HIM—taking into consideration his abilities, his interests, his drive and motivation, and his long-term goals, he simply could not be in a better or more appropriate place for him.</p>
<p>And yet, I am the FIRST one to drop to my knees and give THANKS for this opportunity. If not for the <em>perfect</em> alignment of the stars, this would never have been possible for my son, and we–AND OUR SON–will never, ever forget that.</p>
<p>My second child, my oldest D, will graduate H.S. in two short months. Her abilities, interests, level of motivation, and long-term goals require a different decision entirely. My D, like all of her peers, will remain in state and attend a local university. This is the RIGHT DECISION for HER. It would NOT have been for her brother. One family, two different kids, two different RIGHT decisions. NO second guessing. </p>
<p>In short, I think that there are a number of individual factors that go into making a college decision for ANY one child. Different children in different families may require completely different situations. To me, this debate is useless outside of the context of ONE specific kid and his/her one set of specific considerations. Fact is, any one thing being out of place (but particularly the money) would have forced an entirely different decision on my son, and I have NO doubt that he woud have made the most of any situation, whether it had been Duke, Penn, JHU, Michigan, UMiami, or KU. </p>
<p>I feel like the “case” for the elites has been damaged on this thread by the (perhaps unintentional) pretentious postings of a few. As a middle-class mama with a son at an elite school on some serious finaid, I hate to see this. One of the reasons why I’ve hesitated to post on this thread was my absolute revulsion for some of the things that were said. I don’t know WHY everyone is SO defensive? Who CARES if “IVY” is spelled in all CAPS? 
If you have made the best decision for YOUR child, you should be grateful and relieved. </p>
<p>I would ask that some of the posters here please consider the fact that there are people of varying financial means on this board. To this post:</p>
<p>
I would simply say:</p>
<p>What would I expect? Perhaps a bit more graciousness? 
My parents never gave me…or my children…a dime. In fact, they did one better. They have disowned my entire family–and disinherited us as well. We are muddling through as best we can. I, too, came from a family which valued education (though my dh did NOT). What my family DIDN’T value was family. See, it’s not always that simple. You can VALUE something and WANT it dearly for your children, but some of us can not GIVE it as readily. Please show some understanding for that.</p>
<p>And mom365, yeah, there are some kids who are attending elite schools, my son being one of them, who were NEVER read Plato or Homer as a mere babe. In fact, he played in the sand, visited local museums, read about dinosaurs, and frequented the swings at the park. I would ask that you please don’t help foster that image of high functioning kids–it truly gives the wrong idea for most of them, I think.</p>
<p>To THIS question:</p>
<p>
What’s next? What do you mean? Your child completes her degree, excels, and goes on to do whatever in the world she wishes to do! Gotta love the land of opportunity! :)</p>
<p>To all who will be making some difficult decisions in the next several weeks, best wishes to each and every one of you. Your kids will be just FINE!</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>I think the one thing - perhaps the only thing - everyone does agree on, is that if money were no object, most (not all) of our kids would be heading to one of the elites. </p>
<p>Where the controversy arises - for those families where money is a consideration - which of the next level is the best match for our kid. What does our son or daughter give up (and/or gain) by the compromise. Thus the difficulty, this analysis is definitely kid and situation specific.</p>
<p>I think the one thing - perhaps the only thing - everyone does agree on, is that if money were no object, most (not all) of our kids would be heading to one of the elites.</p>
<p>Actually, I can think of kids who would prefer a “non-elite” school; for example, someone who actually likes a large school with lots of school spirit and great sports teams. Someone who wants to stay close to home; someone who wants a particular kind of school (maybe one with a religious affiliation); someon who wants a particular engineering program. similarly lots of people do actually choose elite schools not because of the cachet but because of the specific characteristics of these schools: size, program, location…</p>
<p>refectivemom, my kids’ top choices would be Michigan, North Carolina, Miami, UCLA, Berkeley, or NYU.</p>
<p>Are these elite?</p>
<p>Oops. </p>
<p>Guess it’s more complicated than I thought. There is the definition of which colleges are considered “elites”. </p>
<p>Perhaps there is some consensus - but still a lot of variation. Does everyone still view HYPS as “elite”? Is it an open field after that? It is regional?</p>
<p>
I would ask that you please read my above (albeit long) post. My D would not choose an elite setting, even if money were no object. Those schools would not be a a good fit for her in the sheer level of competitiveness.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>
Texas Christian University in Fort Worth</p>
<p>sjmom said (on the previous page)</p>
<p>"Or if he’d gotten a big merit package from Duke, same story. He was accepted to a ton of great schools, including those two, but without better FA, there wasn’t any point in not taking one of the elite options (referring to Columbia and Dartmouth as “the elite options”) </p>
<p>I guess everyone’s definition of elite differs, but I don’t understand this at all. We all know US News rankings are not the be all and end all, but Duke is ranked slightly higher than Columbia and Dartmouth by them. Is “elite” equated with “Ivy League” here? Maybe each person’s experience is different, but, to me, Columbia, Duke, and Dartmouth are all equally “elite”.</p>
<p>
I take it that I should write that down as a “no” for Texas Christian. LOL. Ranked about 105 USNWR and considered in our part of the world a very good school. (Despite the name , it ain’t that religious.;))</p>
<p>berurah, I think she meant the comparison most of this thread has discussed, the kid who applies to both elites and schools that give those qualified for elites big merit $$.
.</p>
<p>Some of you people are unreal. What type of intelligent, mature adult makes some of these comments and sends me nasty PM’s and misquotes me? No wonder your kids aren’t getting into elites, you can’t afford it, etc. You are lacking in wisdom, kindness, and self-discipline. Wise up!</p>
<p>I have a kid at an elite and our family is seriously re-thinking the value of the elite. While the kids at the elite are very bright, many are not as intellectual and learning-driven as one might have thought. My kid has been disappointed on many levels, and stated that he does not think this year was worth anywhere near the price of admission. So, while “smart” is nice, there is a lot more to an environment and I guess it is important to take some steps to figure out in advance if the school’s kind of “smart” is the kind of “smart” your kid needs. If he stays at this school, he needs to change a few things so he has a better experience. The state u is looking pretty interesting to our family right now. D, on the other hand, found a perfect fit at Rice and will be a proud graduate (complete with a job) in May.</p>
<p>“Actually, I can think of kids who would prefer a “non-elite” school; for example, someone who actually likes a large school with lots of school spirit and great sports teams.”</p>
<p>My younger d. needs a school with a women’s gymnastics team (and, hopefully, full scholarships to give out), urban, a major in international business and accounting, high levels of diversity, and deep offerings in Arabic.</p>
<p>Suddenly all those “elite” schools (like those I attended, and my older d. attends) sound distinctly third rate. There’s barely a one that can make the cut. ;)</p>