I would concur with this statement. Evil Robot’s decision was apparently a wise and good one based on his needs and his family’s financial situation. A personal choice. Not a philosophical statement. There are kids out there who make this same decision every single year…plenty of them…though less publicly and with less kudos and lauding from some of the masses. The ER story is often used on CC as the kind of justification I referred to earlier–validation for a very difficult choice. But in the end, it really doesn’t matter to ANYONE ELSE what ER chose to do. Families must decide for themselves what is best for their kids and their financial stability.</p>
<p>JHS- we live in basically the same area and my experience is pretty much aligned with yours. We have quite a few HYPS admits at our suburban public - and in general - they are stronger students than PSU honors or Vanderbilt or Wake. That makes sense. We also live in a very “rich” area - so kids get to go where they want for the most part. Very little struggling about merit vs HYPS. If you get into HYPS - you go. Nice huh? But if you look at the grads at a place like PSU Honors, it’s clear that they do very well. Top grad schools - top companies for jobs. Many of these kids live outside of our crazy bubble and had compelling reasons to to choose the cheaper option (the most impressive kids get offered full rides). My S is currently surrounded by some very impressive kids - he actually seems to be on the low end of the scale there. And funny how it’s not at all considered elite around here - the bar is set VERY high in this particular region. Kinda like CC!</p>
<p>If this thread continues long enough, it may self-destruct. That happened to another famous thread in the Parent Cafe. It had over 11,000 posts and somehow the Moderator inadvertently deleted it. </p>
<p>That legendary thread still wins the cc prize for the longest cc thread ever … ;)</p>
<p>Oldolddad, I think most posters think I don’t like HYPS.</p>
<p>I’m not against HYPS. I do like HYPS.</p>
<p>What I don’t like is the thinking, I go to an elite school; therefore, I am elite.
You don’t go to an elite school; therefore, you are not elite.
(I don’t like the thinking, you don’t go to an elite school; therefore, you are elite, either).</p>
<p>I don’t like the thinking, a person is better educated if he goes to an elite school compared to someone who doesn’t go to an elite school. Who the he** knows?</p>
<p>I have never figured out who is smarter, a math genius or somebody who can learn foreign languages at the drop of a hat, or a writer, or a musician, or an artist? </p>
<p>I also don’t know who is smarter, a person with an IQ of 100 who has made great decisions and has a great life, or a person with an IQ of 130, that is a drug addict, a drunk, a womanizer, or doesn’t know where his car keys are.</p>
<p>The whole concept of elite is the need to be better than somebody else and for somebody to acknowledge that fact.</p>
<p>“But I am better”. </p>
<p>Yeah ok.</p>
<p>I really do like HYPSM though. Well, maybe not P. I’m not sure about those eating clubs. :)</p>
<p>Toneranger - I think I have said this to you before, but I definitely consider PSU Honors to be more prestigious than the other colleges that your son was considering. And since he liked the large university atmosphere and the price was 1/3 the other schools, it seems to be a win-win situation all around. Why don’t you just chalk the fact that PSU Honors is not considered elite in your neighborhood to ignorance and forget about it? I mean, most of my neighbors and co-workers (all of whom are professionals) do not know what Swarthmore is. We live 45 miles away and they ask me where it is and what it is! So in their minds it is not only not “elite”, it could just as well be a training school for future hairstylists So should I let it bother me? In your case, just think of yourself as a little more knowledgeable and more sophisticated than they are.</p>
<p>Ok, let’s make a list of who likes the list concept.</p>
<p>LOL. No need for me to do so. Three is quite enough to make it worthwhile. I wasn’t expecting a slew of folks to be in the situation some of us wrestled with at our homes. I just wanted to offer something to those that were in that situation .The purpose I had anyway was not to convince the “unconvincable” or those that had no need for a list of considerations. That would have been doomed from the start.</p>
<p>Dstark: I know you do. I understand where you are coming from and I think an awful lot of folks concur. Because of my background and having been lucky enough to live in several very diverse places and around lots of different folks, I happen to believe it is more about the kid than the school. But that is just me. Keep smiling.</p>
<p>dstark…just for conversation…when does a person get to consider themselves elite? Never?</p>
<p>If you send your kids to elite schools at the top of the pyramid, chances are they will develop the sense that they are the elite–whether or not they attended the elite school on merit money or not. Parents and clergy can throw water on that world view in an attempt to stamp out the arrogance that comes with elitism but there is human pride in achieving within that environment, among elites. There is also pride in achievement in general. </p>
<p>Is pride always a sin? When does pride turn into a sin? When is elitism unacceptable?</p>
No, not a slew. Because how many kids have to choose between full-ride at a good school or pay-more-than-we-can-afford at an ivy? Not many.</p>
<p>I still think the discussion is interesting, though. And the thought process & decision making road map you presented is relevant to those making choices between lower ranked schools with less $$$ on the line.</p>
<p>cheers and others -
What if someone graduates from an elite school with very good grades, etc. but does not follow a stellar or elite career path, just does well at a normal career path with smart colleagues who graduated from a wide variety of colleges? In other words, a career path which could have been followed equally well without the elite school education. And they value the education they received and are happy with their career choice and how their life turned out in general. Was it a mistake for this person to attend this elite college and take a spot away from someone who would have used the connections, etc. to pursue a more high profile career?
This question has been lurking in my mind for the 30 or so pages of this thread. Hope to get some provocative responses!</p>
<p>Motheroftwo: I’ll bite. As long as someone thought they had a good experience and received an “education” it does not matter what they do/did after. They went to where they wanted to go and did whatever they did once they got there… and off they went into the world.</p>
<p>momoftwo - good points - but I don’t think we’re dealing with ignorance here - it’s more of a snooty attitude i think. They KNOW PSU honors (unlike your neighbors who never heard of Swarthmore). It’s their deep back-up or safety.(Hah - but a few got rejected this year!). And if you can’t get into HYP, then private is ALWAYS better. So yeah, I really have moved on and don’t worry about our neighbors think. It didn’t feel so good during decision time last year though. One of these days, I need to get out of this crazy bubble!</p>
<p>“And if you can’t get into HYP, then private is ALWAYS better.”</p>
<p>To me this statement shows an ignorance of what various colleges and universities have to offer, along with snootiness. They are being snooty about a topic which they are ignorant about.</p>
And others will retain the sense of gratitude and humility that they were taught from young childhood is important. ;)</p>
<p>
There is a world of difference between run-of-the-mill “pride” in achievement and “haughtiness,” “arrogance,” and “hubris.” One is understandable and acceptable and doesn’t make you a distasteful person that others don’t wish to be around.</p>
<p>When son was looking over all the different Ec’s, clubs/sports/things to do at all his different choices he came across P’s eating clubs.</p>
<p>“Mom, Mom, MOM, they have EATING clubs!”</p>
<p>To my football playing/wrestler son whose life centers around FOOD he thought a club about EATING was IT. He went on and on for days about it.</p>
<p>I finally tried to explain to him the concept behind the eating clubs but it was too late.</p>
<p>Now P’ton is changing their meal plan in the fall to offer an unlimited meals for unlimited amount of time. He had initially gone into dining services when he first got on campus last fall and asked if they had such a plan. Imagine his joy when they announced such a plan.</p>
<p>Well, at least you know he is getting his money’s worth from his meal plan, unlike my daughter who skips many of the meals on the plan she is required to have at her school! And even when she goes to the meal, she is so picky that she does not take many of the items offered!</p>
</p>
So should I let it bother me? In your case, just think of yourself as a little more knowledgeable and more sophisticated than they are.</p>