<p>BurnThis,
It is human nature to question our decisions…No matter what we do, there is always a “What if…?”</p>
<p>If you had chosen the merit money over Yale, you would still be wondering “What if…?”</p>
<p>So the best advice is: Go with your gut! When you made the decision to send your kid to Yale and pay full fare, you felt great about it! As long as your kid is happy and thriving, then you made the right decision!! </p>
<p>Congrats on your kid’s accomplishments!!</p>
<p>wecandothis- I do not want to be a burden to my children when I get older. My independence in and of itself would be a gift to them. Believe me I take care of the elderly, I see how much they are rewarded by their children.</p>
<p>“Am I that big of an idiot to pay $200,000 to send my kid to Yale?”</p>
<p>No.</p>
<p>Agreed. No idiocy factor at all.</p>
<p>thank you for your post eadad
I have been tempted to pigeon-hole my d as “too social” for a highly challenging environment
it’s hard to sit back and let them make the decision…esp when you know they will wait to the last possible moment</p>
<p>It is one of the great things about the human mind that we seek to resolve all cognitive dissonance through truly convincing ourself of what we most want to believe true. So, if you want to believe that you didn’t need to go to Yale and could go to UNC and do ‘just as well’, then you can through force of thought and research (perhaps buttressed by heavy loads of rationalization) come to that conclusion. Similarly, if we want to believe it is best to spend the big chunk of change on one school over another, it is extremely unlikely that our cognitive mechanisms will allow us to indulge in too much doubt. So, any reasoned decision which is moderately defensible becomes defined by statements such as “He couldn’t even see himself at Yale.” </p>
<p>I think statements like this are honest at one level, and not at another. I am just being honest. I have no regrets, but I have wonders…</p>
<p>Astute post, anitaw. I know I’ve been going through the rationalization process you describe with regard to my son’s decision, and furthermore I freely admit I could convince myself that either decision was the better one if I tried hard enough! That’s how we worrywarts reconcile ourselves to the finality of the decision and move on. </p>
<p>And I agree with you about comments like the “today he says he couldn’t even see himself at Yale.” While no doubt it is true in the sense that it is meant to express how very happy he is at the college he chose over Yale, it’s also false because the comments that proceed it imply that somehow at Yale he would have been pigeonholed and wouldn’t have grown as much. That, my friends, is hogwash. Say what you will about the fallability and over-emphasis on rankings and reputation, but Yale didn’t earn a spot on those prestigious lists for no reason at all. I’d be hard pressed to believe that Yale could pigeon-hole a student any more than another school would.</p>
<p>TheGFT: I think you misread/misunderstood eadad’s post. The way I read it, he was not at all suggesting that Yale would have “pigeon-holed” his son; rather, he was saying that he and “eamom” had pegged their son (or “pigeon-holed”) him as a particular type of learner who would only thrive in a particular type of environment (that being closest to the one where he excelled at his prep school). By allowing their son to make the choice of UNC and the Morehead over Yale, and now seeing how much he has grown and thrived there, both intellectually and personally, they realize that <em>they,</em> (not, potentially, Yale), had placed him in a box of sorts. His son’s choice proved them wrong. I <em>think</em> that’s what he was saying.</p>
<p>The Yale vs. UNC kid is not my kid. I thought my post made that clear. </p>
<p>I am not talking about those sorts of kids, many of whom-- let’s face it-- could probably get pretty excellent educations at the public library, on their own. I used to refer to D’s friends who were like this as “teacher proof.” At her large public HS some of the AP teachers were abysmal, yet the teacher-proof kids sailed on to get 5’s anyhow, which amazed me.</p>
<p>I am pointing out that a different set of factors come unto play when your kid is not a “no matter where, no matter what” high flyer. If I had one of those high flyer kids, unless I was rolling in dough (and we’re not), I’d probably also elect to save the money for grad school. It seems like a smart decision.</p>
<p>But with a humanities/arts kid, I do not forsee grad school. College felt like a one-shot for my daughter. Her becoming more intellectually excited was our main goal. I may be wrong; my D may have caught fire anywhere; it may have been her developmental ‘time’ to fly regardless of the school. But, because we could, we tried to make the decision that felt like the safest bet for her growth. </p>
<p>I think it’s odd that our family’s preference for Beloit over UC Berkeley is ignored by janesmom et al. If it was only the name, the “Elite!” thing, Berkeley was the biggest name on her list. Yet that was our last choice.</p>
<p>Okay, I can accept that I am considered elitist for picking a turbo-Beloit over a Beloit. </p>
<p>I have no doubt the quality of education at Beloit is excellent. I submit that nobody whose kid even applies to Beloit is terribly wrapped into name brands. In fact, had Beloit not been in the boonies of Wisconsin it might have been a tougher choice. I have said many times on these boards how impressed we were by the school and its faculty.</p>
<p>As for the 1350/1450 that was dstark’s rubric not mine. </p>
<p>I am QUITE sure that calmom’s D, for one, is a kid with worse SATs and INFINITELY more inherent spark/drive than my D. So I do not buy into SATs as the only measure of fire, intellect, etc. </p>
<p>Then again, neither do colleges. They do not pick only for SAT. Presumably the top LACs also admit so-so scorers who have evinced particular fire, drive, ability.</p>
<p>Not that it really matters, but I’m confused and curious. Where did your daughter end up–where is this “turbo-Beloit?”</p>
<p>I agree with your 2nd paragraph. I think some kids would thrive and do remarkably well just about anywhere.</p>
<p>Your comment, however, that " . . . with a humanities/arts kid, I do not forsee grad school," is a a little telling, though. Why in the world not?</p>
<p>I keep her school’s name private out of consideration for her privacy. It is a well-regarded, high ranked LAC.</p>
<p>Re grad school: I meant that grad school wasn’t a foregone conculsion the way it would be for a kid like curmudgeon’s. If she wants to go to grad school, that would be the nth degree of the result we were hoping for from her LAC!</p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification Jack, and my apologies to eadad if I misunderstood.</p>
<p>However, eadad’s statement, “He has grown so much both intellectually and personally that today he says he couldn’t even see himself at Yale,” to me implies that by virtue of the tremendous intellectual and personal change his son underwent at a great school, he had become a person so different that he couldn’t imagine how he ever thought Yale would have been a fit, or perhaps even that he had outgrown or moved beyond a place like Yale. Now he realizes that Yale wouldn’t have been right.</p>
<p>The problem I have with that is this: given what we know about Yale, which has been ranked number 1 or 2 for best undergraduate experience of all the schools in the country, couldn’t we also imagine this boy saying after a few terms at Yale that he had grown so much that he couldn’t imagine himself at UNC now? If we believe the maxim that you can bloom where you are planted, then I think it is safe to say that if he had chosen differently, he would have eventually felt comfortable and at home at Yale too. Thus, the thought of having gone somewhere other than Yale would have felt equally strange.</p>
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<p>IMO, absolutely not!</p>
<p>Our opinions on this topic are obviously based on our life experiences and how we have percieved the elites to be percieved by others, and how having a degree from HYP might have benefitted us.</p>
<p>For example, I remember saying several times in my life that “not doing X would be like getting into Harvard and not going! (Duh!)”</p>
<p>Or my sister, who answered questions about her MBA with “I went to Wharton…but I got into Harvard.”</p>
<p>Or in the practice of law, where it doesn’t matter if you have been practicing 60 years, the first question people ask is “where did you go to law school?” and those who answer “Harvard” are treated like gods.</p>
<p>So when my D got into Harvard, she/we never even considered any other alternatives (except for Yale 
), regardless of her potential for an athletic scholarship at many other places .</p>
<p>This SAT score talk is kinda sad… I’m a highschool senior, and to see parents worry about students with a 1350 being intellectually inferior to a student with a 1450 is funny… but that’s all I’ll say on it because I think curmudgeon and the rest did the right thing by not focusing on it ;]</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice so far, you can be sure I’ll be back on here tomorrow after CC crashes and gets back up, absolutely confused about where I should go to college even though the parents have assured me that they have the money to support an education at Duke/Brown if I so desire, and without affecting retirement and daily life much/at all. It’s just that nagging guilt/feeling that you’re turning away everything a university has to offer to go to one where they don’t give you anything… just because your gut says that you’d feel and do much better there (academically AND socially)… so have any of your or your children faced that feeling when picking an “elite” over another school that’s giving them everything? How did they deal with it/did they feel bad about it later on?</p>
<p>And also a general point… yes - there are students who apply to every Ivy league school and various other “elites” by virtue of their rank in USNews and prestige, and there are parents who force their kids to apply/attend such schools for whatever personal reasons… but don’t forget that there are many (like myself) that visit a school and feel as if it’s perfect for them because of the school itself, and not its prestige. I’ve been forced to apply to a school I know I won’t fit in at by my parents, and I’ve also cancelled an application to an Ivy after visiting because I knew I wouldn’t fit in. </p>
<p>So (to those of you who do it, otherwise I mean no offense at all, and it’s not a personal attack on anybody!) stop assuming that everybody who applies to an “elite” is doing it for prestige - many know that they can get a comparable education at their state school… but there’s something about that particular university that makes it special - it can get irritating :]</p>
<p>Posted by SBmom “The Yale vs. UNC kid is not my kid. I thought my post made that clear.”</p>
<p>I don’t think eadad or eamom thought their kid was that kid either. I was on the old cc when they were making the decison. It was a difficult and agonizing one for the family. Son had done well and there was some thought that some of that could be attributed to the fact that he was surrounded by other kids who excelled and was in a small, personal learning environment. . I don’t remember them describing him as a “no matter where, no matter what high flyer.” In fact, I think that was part of the problem with the Morehead over Yale. It wasn’t just a prestige thing of one school name over another although that came into play. It was one learning environment over another GIVEN WHAT THEY THOUGHT WOULD WORK BEST FOR THEIR SON and who THEY thought he was. </p>
<p>But, in the end, and with some trepedation, they let their son define who he thought he was and let him choose what he thought would be the best for him. From his continuing success, he obviously chose well and knew himself better than his parents would have thought. And once he chose, from what I remember, parents put their hearts into supporting that choice. </p>
<p>Of course, I could be remembering completely wrong and if so, I apologize to eadad.</p>
<p>I don’t think eadad was trying to diminish your choice at all. I think he was simply giving a different perspective on making this kind of choice from the been there done that point of view. All he was saying is that his kid turned out to be different than he would have thought. I don’t think he is saying that it wouldn’t have been possible for his son to excel at Yale, only that in a different environment, not only has his son has accomplished everything that he or his parents had hoped he would get out of the Yale environment but exceeded that. Therefore, neither regrets the choice. From his postings about his daughter and her choices last year, I think both he and eamom learned alot about different ways to be “the wind beneath their wings” from their son’s college search and the outcome. Isn’t that what we as parents should be doing?</p>
<p>Anitaw, what a great post. We are all human and the mind does funny things. </p>
<p>One point I want to make for the poster who wonders if he’s a fool paying the $200K. I think every parent has a right to be proud of the hard work and dedication put into raising a child and giving them the best you can. If in your family that means a wonderful education of the child’s choosing, props to you!</p>
<p>keepmesane: That’s how I read that, too. Excellent post, by the way.</p>
<p>Finally, after 107 pages, I get this thread. Silly me.</p>
<p>To review:</p>
<p>1)Only an idiot pays full freight. Now admittedly, you’re not a huge idiot if you can afford to pay full freight… someone has a brain somewhere to earn enough dough to pay tuition… but you’re mostly an idiot.
2)The college that changes your kids life needs to come out of a book called, “Colleges that Change Lives”. Nobody is interested in hearing how your kid went to MIT or CMU or JHU and developed a patent their junior year or worked with a Nobel prize winner. Those schools are for chumps.
3) It’s important for people to know that if your kid is smart enough to land a full pay scholarship, that your kids SAT’s put them at the tippy top of the applicant pool. Otherwise, just having your kid show up for Psych I or whatever and be with 200 other kids in a lecture hall is silly. Even if your kid wants to major in Classics or Renaissance Studies, he/she needs to find a top notch research lab to validate the decision to go to said school. Even if there is no lab… surely there’s an honors program with elite housing???
4)OTHER people’s kids need to follow some pretty time-worn advice re: careers and career preparation. Smart folks on CC know that you can pretty much get into any grad school any time from anywhere… and other than being a Supreme Court justice or working at Goldman Sachs (and who would work there anyway?) where you go to undergrad and grad school is irrelevant, completely and utterly irrelevant-- hence point #1.
5)If your kid is a slacker dud, it MAY pay to send such a kid to college… but be careful that your dud kid doesn’t drag down the smarter, harder working kids while getting pulled up to their level. And professors know which kids are the top kids and which are the bottom kids, don’t kid yourself. The best opportunities always go to my kid… who was at the tippy top of the applicant pile. Your slacker dud kid could turn out OK, but if you were really smart, you should have moved to Virginia a long time ago.
6) People in New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Dakota (maybe all the states with two words in their names?) are real losers since their State U’s aren’t as good or better than Harvard or Stanford. But surely one or two of them is a hidden gem?</p>
<p>So there you go.</p>
<p>Fengshui -</p>
<p>Now that you have eliminated the money issue, really eliminate it. Forget about the money. Now is the time to go with your gut, and I mean your gut, not your parents gut. Give it the headache test (school A - headache; school B - sigh of relief), make a decision and…don’t look back!!</p>
<p>(or you could be on CC forever)</p>
<p>Mercymom, headache based on what? Haha.</p>
<p>And eliminated in terms of yeah we’ll take loans and figure it out, it won’t hurt that bad (apparantly they save more than they let me know)</p>
<p>Blossom, I love you. Thanks for that!</p>