<p>When you hear someone saying that they are going to Berkeley, what do you assume? Is this an Ivy caliber school in your eyes?</p>
<p>As a research university UC Berkeley is regarded more highly than many Ivies internationally. However, most of the Ivies are somewhat more selective and domestically slightly more prestigious.</p>
<p>Not ivy caliber in my eyes. I think that they are a very bright kid who most likely went to a CA public high school. Top grad schools but undergrad not as strong.</p>
<p>True, but it is the best public school in the country if not the world? After Ivies, Stanford, Caltech, MIT, Duke, and such type of private schools, what is their best replacement?</p>
<p>Berkeley and University of Virginia are certainly two of the best public schools out there, and just as good as or better than many private schools, regardless of the country you’re in. They’re great schools. When I think of Berkeley, what first pops into mind are highly cerebral West coast Asian kids who are going to become very successful engineers, scientists, or CS types. Just being honest!</p>
<p>The thing about UC Berkeley is that it is a great school, but it’s quite lopsided to California residents. If you’re applying from out-of-state, Berkeley might as well be an Ivy. It is expected that a state school would be comprised mostly of state residents, that’s life, but if you live in Rhode Island or Texas, it makes UC Berkeley really hard to get into. </p>
<p>To answer your question which I think is which is the best public school in the country, there is a list of public Ivies which goes as follows:
College of William & Mary (Williamsburg, Virginia)
Miami University (Oxford, Ohio)
University of California
University of Michigan (Ann Arbor)
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
University of Texas at Austin
University of Vermont (Burlington)
University of Virginia (Charlottesville)</p>
<p>That is in no particular order, and when it says UC im sure it refers to Berkeley, LA, and San Diego as opposed to the lesser known schools.</p>
<p>UT Austin? Seriously? Uck, Texas!</p>
<p>^ True, it does tend to be a bit lopsided towards Cali residents, but if you look at this thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/676413-official-uc-berkeley-decision-thread-class-2013-a.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-california-berkeley/676413-official-uc-berkeley-decision-thread-class-2013-a.html</a></p>
<p>Some of the kids that got in had ivy caliber scores and grades, same with some that got rejected. But to the average American, is Berkeley regarded highly?</p>
<p>Yes, I’d say Berkeley is highly regarded. It’s definitely a household name among educated families, and among not so educated families I’m willing to wager that many of them would say it’s one of those exclusive private schools.</p>
<p>Sure, it’s a top school. Of course they have ivy calibre kids, for many it’s far cheaper than an ivy. But the average student is not ivy calibre, it doesn’t have the resources ivies give their undergrads, it has a 50 something percent 4 year graduation rate as opposed to the ninty something at any ivy, California is in a budget crisis and it impacts the schools…</p>
<p>If you have the choice, and can afford it, choose the ivy! My DH, a Berkeley grad, is sitting here confirming this!</p>
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<p>I would have to agree with this one because of Cal’s nature which is a State U, thus it is mandated by the state to absorb more students than most elite privates are. However, even the Ivy schools can be categorized into different levels in terms of student quality. HYP students have higher stats than D and B, for example. And Cornell students, on average, are just about or only slightly higher than Berkeley’s. </p>
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<p>I would have to argue with this one. I think when it comes to resources, Berkeley has far bigger resources than D and B combined. (Not necessarily on a per student though.) But the physical facilities of UC Berkeley is bigger and more advanced than either B or D. For example, it has more library collections, computers, study halls and science and engineering labs than B or D has. It’s just that, Berkeley (undergrad) students have to know how to tap them to be able to maximize the school resources. For top Berkeley undergrad students who would want to experiment on something that hasn’t been experimented elsewhere, Berkeley has the facilities to perform them. Most ivies don’t. </p>
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<p>I don’t think school resources are the main reason for having a low graduation rate especially in a heavy science, tech and engineering school like Berkeley. I think the foremost reason of a high dropout rate is the poor socio-economic make up of the school’s student body. In general, poorer students tend to graduate longer or don’t graduate anymore due to personal and family-related financial problems. This is mostly true in all schools anywhere in the world. Even at my former university, Cambridge, where we have a one-on-one tutorial/lecture system, students who barely can afford to continue college due to high cost and other reasons associated with tuition, eventually drop out no matter how hand-holding the system it may have been for them. Cambridge and Oxford 3-year graduation rate isn’t perfect. In fact, it’s far from one. Additionally, no ivy league school has a 90% or higher 4-year graduation rate. Not even Harvard or Yale or Princeton. </p>
<p>Another reasons are the course curriculum and course rigor implemented at the school. The harder the school curriculum is, the higher the failing grades are given out to the students. Look at the graduation rates of other top science, tech and engineering schools. They are comparatively the same as Berkeley’s and significantly lower than Brown’s/Dartmouth’s:</p>
<p>Dartmouth - 87%
Brown - 84%</p>
<p>MIT - 83%
Caltech - 82%
Stanford - 80%
Harvey Mudd - 77%</p>
<p>[Best</a> Colleges - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/highest-grad-rate]Best”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/college/highest-grad-rate)</p>
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Its four-year graduation rate is 60%.</p>
<p>This is low compared to those of Michigan, UNC, and UVA (70%, 75%, and 85%, respectively), although it does stack up favorably against other public universities.</p>
<p>Saying 60% is “comparatively the same” as 80% at Stanford is a stretch by any means of the imagination.</p>
<p>IBclass, sure, the 20% difference between Berkeley and Stanford is somewhat wide, but try looking at the 6-year graduation rates difference between them. Try looking at the figures between Cal and MIT/Caltech/Mudd/CMU. You’d see that the gap becomes narrower. (I’m sorry that I don’t have the figues with me right now. Hope someone has.) But then again, my point is, graduation rate isn’t purely attributable to school efforts. It’s a combination of many factors, foremost of which is the socio-economic make up of the school. We all know that a vast number of students at Berkeley aren’t as rich as Stanford/Dartmouth students.</p>
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<p>Or the factor in this case could be other things, like amount of support students are given to take leave time if needed, availability of resources outside of the classroom, etc.</p>
<p>Most people from the NYC area that I know view Berkeley as a top school that’s a total rip-off for out-of-state undergraduate and is filled with the top California students who didn’t get into Stanford and didn’t want to travel across the country.</p>
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<p>To some extent, yes. But there must be a reason why tech/eng’g schools do have very low graduation rate despite their elite-ness – academic quality and abundant financial support.</p>
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Average student test scores may not be Ivy caliber. However, pump up the Ivies to Berkeley’s 25,000 undergrad size and let’s see any institution maintain “Ivy caliber” test score averages.</p>
<p>Students are a big component that make up an academic institution. Faculty is another component. Berkeley’s faculty is Ivy caliber. In fact, it probably exceeds all faculty in terms of scholarly acheivement outside of Harvard and Stanford.
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<p>It is top faculty, top research and top academic programs that have placed Berkeley at the top of the public research university heap.</p>
<p>Yes, Berkeley has some problems. The decrease in state support is disconcerting. Berkeley is large and does not shower attention onto undergraduates like small privates. However, Berkeley is great for strong-willed, independent students. Plenty of opportunities abound, you just have to make an effort to seek them out for yourself. </p>
<p>The campus is gorgeous and located in one of the most dynamic, picturesque, culturally diverse metropolitan areas of the world. </p>
<p>Roll on you Bears!</p>
<p>^ Thanks for the info</p>
<p>YES, Cal is definitely IVY caliber. The faculty is incredible and I would put their students up against any.</p>
<p>Coming from a CA resident, yes, it’s a good school. But who they accept is very random. If you’re thinking of applying, don’t get your hopes up. Every Asian I know (I’m also Asian) has the dream of going the Berkeley as their number one choice. I don’t know if they’re ivy caliber for an undergrad. Graduate school more likely.</p>
<p>" YES, Cal is definitely IVY caliber. The faculty is incredible and I would put their students up against any."
I completely agree.</p>