Your Opinions Please: Brown vs GWU. NOT a No-Brainer

Parents Forum
1

<p>My S was accepted to Brown yesterday. He worked hard to get there and has his heart set on going there to study computer engineering. Meanwhile, his safety school, George Washington University, offered him a full academic scholarship. If I was set financially, I’d tell him to go to Brown but I believe I might going to lose my job soon and, at 52, it’ll be hard for a middle manager like me to find a job paying the salary I’m currently getting. S is willing to work to help defray the costs of Brown</p>

<p>Do I tell him to go to Brown and spend a big chunk of my retirement savings or should I tell him he’s going to GWU, tuition paid and Honors program?</p>

<p>Thank you</p>

2

<p>Any financial advisor will tell you make saving for your retirement your top priority. In the best of times, you’d be ill-adivsed to dip into your retirement savings; now with the real possibility of losing your job, it’s positively foolish. I’m assuming that your S did not get much, if anything, in the way of financial aid at Brown? he would have to work very hard indeed to match what GWU has to offer. And if your S had to work to be at Brown, he might not have the time to enjoy being at Brown. He’d have his nose to the grindstone every waking minute, and all summer long, too. The full academic scholarship at GWU will enable your S to have so much more freedom to do things he wants, to travel, to seek out internships instead of waiting tables, etc…</p>

3

<p>Keep in mind that if you lose your job your financial picture will change considerably and your son is therefore likely to be offered financial aid at Brown. Also be sure to look at the total picture, because I hear GW housing is often off-campus and therefore expensive. Congrats on two great options!</p>

4

<p>I have also heard that dining is very expensive at GW in that they do not have traditional cafeterias, rather, they have food court type options. You may want to check that out.</p>

5

<p>Brown is a very good opportunity, but no one can tell you what is right for you. I do know that most schools will make changes to financial aid for extreme changes in circumstances. I wish you luck.</p>

6

<p>You should definitely inform Brown of your financial (potential) difficulties and explain how much your S wants to go there and why their program is the best fit for him-- you have nothing to lose by this and could get some more aid.</p>

7

<p>I heard Brown is replacing loans with grants for first year students- I think they will probably be very helpful if and when your income changes</p>

8

<p>GWU is a very energetic, happening place, beautifully located in a lively (and pretty darn safe) part of DC on the border of Georgetown (Ritz City). Being local, I know a bunch of kids who went or are going, including the son of an extremely wealthy banker who lives in a mansion and supports the arts with big bucks. If a student is the type to appreciate tons of night life, protests, cherry blossoms, great museums, and the terrific cultural offerings of Washington, GW can be a wonderful experience. The college hosts lots of sponsored events, many multicultural. I saw Youssou N’Dour at the Lisner Auditorium twice, for instance.</p>

9

<p>First, congratulations to you and your son for his acceptance to Brown and GWU. He must have indeed done a great job in school so far.</p>

<p>This is a tough one. First, let me correct two comments above. GW housing is not “often off campus” and expensive. It is on campus, unless the student choses otherwise. Second, they offer cafeteria-type food at reasonable/cheap prices, in addition to food court selections. Also, since most of the dorms for non-freshman seem to offer cooking facilities in the room, so many of the kids can buy groceries and prepare their own food if they choose to. </p>

<p>Clearly Brown would be first choice if money were not a concern. But it so often is! My concern would be that you are in an unsettled situation. So what is Brown supposed to do? They couldn’t really give you money on the guess that you might lose your job. And they couldn’t promise you money, since neither you nor they know what job you might get if the lay-off in fact occurs. So I’m not sure Brown is in a position to do anything, even if they wanted to. </p>

<p>The second concern is, if your student starts at Brown, then you lose your job, will they be as anxious to award money to sophomores? Someone with experience in this area can answerr better than I as to whether schools readily give money to students who have already matriculated.</p>

<p>Regarding your retirement savings, I vote with the majority. You owe it to yourself and your family not to raid the retirement savings. That could potentially put a huge amount of stress on your child/ren in the future, stress they don’t even comprehend now.</p>

<p>If your son is in the top 1 - 2% of GW students, as it appears he is, then imagine what his college GPA will be, and what honors he will win at GW. Then sky’s the limit for graduate school. Not much of a consolation now, but at least it’s a glimmer of a silver lining.</p>

<p>Good luck and best wishes in a tough decision.</p>

10

<p>Almost all schools require that you re-apply for financial aid every year anyway. Merit is different, but Brown is all need based.</p>

11

<p>He needs to go to GW and make the most of his experiences.</p>

<p>You should never put yourself in financial jeopardy to send a kid to college.</p>

<p>Congratulations to your son.</p>

<p>It is a no-brainer.</p>

<p>If you go to yahoo.com<br>
click on finance</p>

<p>go to Suzy Orman</p>

<p>click on more </p>

<p>go to July 12, 2004</p>

<p>You will see why you should not spend your retirement savings.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

12

<p>Thank you all for your thoughtful comments.<br>
I think the plan now is to re-visit the two schools so that we can make the most informed decision we can. Perhaps something will become more apparent to us. I hate to choose between breaking one’s heart versus the bank.</p>

<p>Again thank you.</p>

13

<p>jake, what does your son want to study?</p>

14

<p>Your son will enjoy the opportunities at GWU knowing that he is not putting you into a risky financial situation, and the “broken heart” may just be a temporary and passing dissapointment. The kids usually move on quickly to the excitement of their new schools.</p>

15

<p>I want to re-emphasize what some posters have said: if your financial situation changes, your aid will. Contact them immediately. Even if they don’t change this year’s, if and when you do lose your job, you will be reporting new income figures, and FA will react accordingly. As stated above, they are committed to full need, so will award FA based on the changing situation.</p>

<p>We did not apply for FA (S is a freshman at Columbia) but our financial picture is in the midst of a sharp change, and their website says that they will award need in the future should it arise, even though we didn’t apply initially. So please look really carefully at the Brown info, and speak to them, before you rule it out.</p>

16

<p>hayden, computer science</p>

17

<p>Becoming unemployed at age 52 would be an extremely stressful situation. Even contemplating it would be stressful. I would certainly research all the “what ifs” with Brown first. If they can hold out the possiblity (You cannot expect any guarantees) of stepping up to help meet future need if your situation changes I would consider Brown, but weighing the stress of a huge financial obligation against a full ride would make me lean heavily towards GW. </p>

<p>Where are the college savings? We have approximately 3 years worth of college expenses saved up for each of our 2 boys. Even if I lost my job tomorrow I wouldn’t have to contemplate raiding my retirement funds to meet college expenses. Retirement funds will be squandered on real estate taxes and mortgage payments.</p>

18

<p>First of all he isn’t going to be able to pay back any of the Brown loans because there aren’t going to be any computer engineering jobs for Americans in the USA when he graduates. Since that is the case he is going to have to go to graduate or professional school. Don’t run up debt now.</p>

<p>I know it is hard to say no to a kids dream but greams at 18? How do they compare with the dreams a person has at 30 or 40 or 50? Sometimes it is a parents job to be financially responsible and the bad guy.</p>

<p>Also from what I know of Brown their financial aid sucks. They’ll take evrything but the shirt off your back if you have any assets and give you loans for the rest. You start with no lenerage and it rapidly plummets after you are in because most competing schools only award merit aid to incomming freshmen or community college graduates.</p>

<p>–Just a disclaimer here for full disclosure purposes. I am a GWU graduate as is my wife. Not a huge supporter of the school but did enjoy my time there. It is a better school than it was when we went there and it was good enough then to get the wife a Phi Beta Kappa key and a scholarship to graduate school.</p>

19

<p>Brown is over-rated. Go to GWU for sure.</p>

20

<p>Congratulations on your son’s acceptances into 2 fine schools.</p>

<p>I think that you have to look at both issues long and short term.</p>

<p>His full ride at GW is probably based on merit. What is the GPA requirement needed to keep merit scholarship? What happens if there is a slip in GPA? If he had a bad term/year what would be the contigency plan ? Would any of it be replaced by need based aid?</p>

<p>Brown</p>

<p>For first year students, Brown has increased their grant aid first year so that students would not have to do work study (University Work Scholarship: $2,0000). </p>

<p>Remember, even if you do lose your job any severance you get will be added on to this year’s income which may not help your cause when applying for aid sophmore year from a number’s perspective. However, you willbe able to tell your tale of woe to the financial aid office which will take your situation into consideration.</p>

<p>From Brown’s FAQ’s</p>

<p>**Q. Will I be considered for scholarship assistance during my first-year if I failed to apply on time, but my family has experienced a sudden change in financial circumstances? <a href=“While%20you%20did%20apply%20on%20time%20the%20change%20in%20financial%20situation%20does%20apply%20to%20you”>/b</a></p>

<p>A. Yes. If you experience a significant and unexpected change in circumstances after the application deadline, you may complete the financial aid application process at any point during the academic year. If the change is considered significant and unexpected, your case will be assessed based on the information you provide to our office according to the same guidelines we would use for an on time application. For example, we would consider a parent’s loss of job, an involuntary decrease in parent income of 20% or more, or the death of a parent a significant and unexpected change in circumstances. We suggest that all families who believe they may have experienced a qualifying change in circumstances contact our office and speak with a counselor. </p>

<p>In the end, everything comes down to a question of worth. </p>

<p>(1) Does your son understand your financial situation and how it may impact him? </p>

<p>(2) Is he willing to bust his butt if necessary to help make this Brown education affordable (if he is not willing to be an active participant in the financing of his education, then all bets should be off and he should go where his money can take him.) IMHO, he will need to put his money where his mouth is and his commitment to helping to finance a Brown education should begin now. If he already has a part-time job -he needs to comit to throwing “X” amount of dollars in the pot toward Brown now (I understand senior dues, prom and stuff is coming up) Over the summer he need to thow all monies earned toward helping to finance Brown.</p>

<p>(3) Does he understand that he will graduate with loans and is that his buy in? For the class of 2008 the averae loan was $4,000. He will probably have Stafford Loans as a given in his FA package: $2,625- freshman year, $3,500 sophomore year and $5,500 - Junior/senior year ($17,125 minimum debt as a given).</p>

<p>In the end you will have tos it down as a family, set parameter, negotiate your deals, come to a decision . Most importantly every one has to keep thier commitment to thier buy-in.</p>

<p>all the best.</p>