I don’t believe your son is too old for you to be involved. Approaching a teacher, an authority figure, could be a scary thing for a shy person. If you are pushing from the other side in trying to get your son to talk to teacher, I could see why he would lie to you, but it doesn’t mean there is a huge problem or he is a bad person. Kids lie to protect themselves and when they think there is no other way out.
I think what I would do is set up a meeting with the teacher and your son to help him get over the anxiety of talking to an authority figure. He is going to have to deal with his professor and boss later on in his life, so he might as well learn now while he is at home. Show him how to deal with his teachers by setting an example. I used to tell my kids to be respectful of their teachers. At the same time, it was not always their fault if they didn’t understand the lesson, and they had the RIGHT to get extra help from their teachers. If any of my kid told me their teacher was not being helpful I would make an appointment to see the teacher. I did that until they graduated from high school.
One of my kid’s teacher was a soccer coach after school. He told my kid that he didn’t have time after school and he was busy during study periods or office hours. I told him that it was not acceptable that he was never available. He said it was only during the soccer season he was so busy. So I asked him if he could come in before school started (7-8 am) and I would make sure my kid was there. He got paid extra for being a soccer coach, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of my kid. He agreed to come in early few days a week.
My 15 y/o has this exact issue with Math and English. And the lying part too. He has Aspergers, and this is part of that drill. It is frutrating to have to see a rubric and ensure his assignments meet it. Math? I’m going to have to hire a tutuo bc Honors Algebra 2 is over my head.
Does he have any social issues interacting (anxiety or extreme shyness)?
OP, you are definitely not alone in this experience. My son, a senior in HS now, is quite bright. However, he is not motivated and does the minimum amount of work needed to get by. He was typically able to maintain a B average in his honors and AP courses. However, every so often he encountered a class where doing minimal work wasn’t enough to keep a B and I would see his grades start to slip. We talked to him about it and tried to impress upon him how his decisions would limit his college options in the future but it was like talking to a wall. We asked him whether he even wants to go to college and he didn’t even want to engage in the conversation.
Last year his math grade was dropping significantly and we were having a heated discussion about it when he admitted that he had just stopped doing homework because the teacher would only randomly grade homework. Nothing I could say would convince him that it was in his own best interest to do the homework - both for the occasional easy points when it did get checked as well as for the knowledge that it helped cement about the concepts they were learning. He literally just outright refused to do it.
He would similarly also NOT approach his teachers or other adults at school. One year we were late getting the paperwork for his sports physical done so that he could participate in spring track at the JV level. He never turned the paperwork in because the woman in the athletic office had a reputation for being “mean” and he knew he was coming in with late paperwork. But he never told me he hadn’t turned it in. He went so far as to pretend to be going to practice until I finally figured out what was going on.
I finally decided I was way out of my element in trying to guide him so we decided to have him see a therapist. While we continue to struggle with his behaviors at times we have also seen positive changes. I believe some of that is from the therapist but some is also from general maturity that has occurred over time. E.g., one day he forgot he had a therapist appt so I got a call from the therapist asking where he was. I called my son at home and told him that he needed to leave now as the therapist could still see him. I told him that if he didn’t make the appt he would need to personally pay the $195 cancellation fee we would be charged and that that money needed to be waiting for me when I arrived home from work and he said fine, that’s what he was going to do. The next thing I knew I was getting a text from the therapist that he had arrived so I was pleased that he decided on a more positive course of action . It appears there are times where he paints himself into a corner with his decisions and then doesn’t know how to get himself out of that corner.
When it came time junior year to start talking about college visits, he was generally apathetic about the whole process. Other than offering up the name of one school he was interested in (Ohio State wihich is OOS for us), he took a back seat… He was fortunate that he received excellent SAT scores which opened up college options to him that his GPA and other aspects of his high school performance would not have. In the end, he was accepted to Ohio State (and many other wonderful schools) and due to his SAT scores received great merit aid. So for now it seems his story has a happy ending.
But I’m not kidding myself that all is going to be a bed of roses when he goes away to school. He may find that without me nudging or nagging he chooses to skip classes and/or continue to do minimal work which may not be enough to carry a B average with a full college courseload. His merit aid has minimum GPA requirements and we have told him that that merit aid is necessary for him to attend Ohio State because it keeps it below the prices of our in-state flagship. If that merit aid goes away he will have to transfer to somewhere.
So, all that to say, I can feel your pain. Consider whether a therapist might be an avenue worth pursuing. Try to get your son to engage in discussions about what he wants out of his future and how his decisions now impact what his options will be for the future. But most importantly hang in there!
Shy kids often have trouble asking for help. In my experience, shy kids that have been accustomed to being the top student for many years have even more trouble. Sad but true.
I’ve come to learn that teen lies are often a combo of self-protecting “stay off my back” and good intententioned (though stupid) “spare parents disappointment”.
Post #4 resonates with me. Kids will lie to parents. Internet usage was first as a teen. Other posters also have some excellent comments.
I talked to son’s AP US History teacher to find out why he was getting B’s- deserved, btw. Gifted kid tried to write a book for test essays and didn’t finish his points. Told son to talk to his excellent teacher because he could help him in this. Did son- nope. He got a 4 on the AP exam.
Senior year, sigh. He basically only needed English class credits to graduate but was at risk for failing first semester of an AP one. H and I got a phone call at the beginning of finals week from his teacher. Apparently she was willing to break her rule about failing the class if papers were not turned in on time. He had chosen too large a topic for a term paper, got an extension after changing the scope but hadn’t turned it in. We knew nothing- by senior year a kid is in charge of his learning. I guess he was nearly finished but since he missed his second deadline he figured it didn’t matter. I drove him the mile to school less than an hour before the final deadline to ensure it got there in time and he got a C. I asked the teacher later and he likely could have had an A. He got lesser grades in other subjects because he didn’t always do the work. Zeros on homework meant B’s despite 100% on tests in AP Statistics. A C his final semester in AP Chemistry while he got a 5 on the AP test taken a month before school ended.
HS years can be tough. Son got an honors degree in math and finally told us how bored he was in HS despite what he did to give him what we could. Now in his mid twenties he sees where he could have followed our advice more often. He added the computer science major and is being intellectually satisfied working.
It is hard for teens to admit failure, ask for help et al.
adlgel- your son’s HS course resonates with me. Stubborn, strong willed…like his parents. Only he lacked our wisdom garnered over the years. I worried about him. Only 3 college apps. Young- turned 16 fall of senior year. Never heard the extra loud alarm I could hear down the hall. Only would apply to 3 schools- accepted at flagship. Sent him off and he did well, no problems. He’d been bored in HS, had issues with parents but was definitely ready for college (and his age didn’t matter). I’ll bet your son will improve drastically when he’s where he wants to be. If not- he faces the consequences and will be where he needs to be.
Set a deadline. Make it clear that if he does not speak to teacher alone you will go together. Or, hire a tutor and make it clear that he will go until the grade comes up to an acceptable level. I have used both and they both worked. Good luck!
Instead of “approaching” teacher, why he would not “approach” much more seriously studying for this class. My D. who had never had a B in her life, struggled tremendously in History class in HS. Well, it was a college course, but she knew that she cannot afford a B. So, she studied much harder, I believe that she spent more time doing work for this class than most other classes combined. She got an A and never had to take another History class in her life.
So, I would advise your kid to plunge into it and do it the hard way, STUDY. You can help too! My H. spent anonymous hours discussing various concepts with D. for her History class. My gosh, he would much prefer to stare into his laptop instead, believe me!
As a note for a future - college. Approaching profs will ot help, unless the student has specific question, then, of course, make sure to clear it with prof. General approach will make no difference, got to study, got to show the work!
@MiamiDAP “just tell your kid to study harder” - if only it were that easy. My kid was completely fine getting Bs. Probably would have been completely fine getting a C here or there too - and I think if he found himself too far behind the 8 ball in a particular class and was getting a D, he like OPs son would have probably been too embarrassed or uncomfortable approaching a teacher to ask for help and would have just taken the D.
He did not have the internal desire, drive or motivation to put in the work to get As, it just wasn’t that important to him. He’d rather spend the time not studying doing other things. And as a parent, you can’t make him have that internal desire, drive or motivation. Yes, you can begin to create artificial consequences (I take away your laptop if you don’t work harder) or artificial incentives (I’ll pay you $50 for every A you get) but I have found success with neither of those approaches with our kid. And that’s the thing, each kid is different.
Since as a parent I won’t be there at college with him to make him do the work, at some point, you have to accept that they will succeed or they will fail on their own merits and they will have to deal with the consequences of that failure if and when it occurs. We did discuss whether we even felt comfortable paying for our son to go to college because we didn’t feel he had demonstrated maturity and behaviors we felt were necessary to make that type of investment worthwhile. But we’ve changed our tune as we’ve seen him grow and mature through the past 6-8 months.
“just tell your kid to study harder” - if only it were that easy".
The only way to get a better grade in any class is to work hard and harder in classes that are harder for a specific student. “Approaching” a teacher without showing an effort to overcome the difficulty will not work. It will not work at any place, college, job, any informal projects, ECs, etc.
And since parents are not there at college, it is wise to take your hardest general education classes while still in HS. Then parents can help. However, D. did not hesitate to call her dad with few questions in college physics when she was already college junior. That is after visiting prof. at office hours and discussing her questions with him. This is the only reason to approach a teacher - with specific questions.
it is very hard to change the attitude in HS. Got to tell the kid about priorities in his life when he receives his very first homework assignment at 5 y o. However, this cannot change now, we cannot go back in time. But the only way to overcome any difficulty is to work harder, anything else will not work. Pretty simple and straight forward truth.
OP, I feel for you…as noted in other posts, kids mature at such different (and uneven) rates, it’s like growth spurts.
I can see that this being junior year, when grades are so important, you are getting anxious. But as hard as it is, try to maintain your calm and keep a sense of perspective.
I kept asking S (sophomore) about a small, impersonal holiday gift for his teachers. No opinion. It was a leading question bc we always end up buying chocolates, anyway. Nothing over $2, and not wrapped. So why do I ask? Another thing, I have learned over the years that they only actually give them to their favorite teachers anyway, the others mysteriously disappear …next question to S, how many? Five. Put them in your backpack, I tell him. Nag, nag. The last day of school before break, I come downstairs to find all five chocolate bars on the counter.
You can set it all up for them but they have to put the gosh darn chocolates in the backpack.
Try to be aware when you are being too leading/controlling and when to back off. Be on the lookout for times when he does “step up” – and affirm that he did the right thing. If it were my kid lying there would be a consequence. Something relating to maturity, trust, etc., like not getting a ride to a favorite activity until he has met with the teacher. The real consequence of not getting good grades will show in the admissions cycle.
You’re not alone. At all. First, remind yourself that you know your son better than anybody. Second, solve the immediate problem, and don’t turn this into an anxiety issue or a lying problem or whether you’re a controlling parent. Less drama, the better, and your son will respond better.
Problem is a bad grade and your son needs to go talk to his teacher. Right? I would contact the teacher and schedule a conference to formulate a recovery plan; plan it about a week out with you, teacher and son. Tell your son about the conference and let him know that he’s welcome to go talk to the teacher on his own anytime before that. Either he does and you can cancel the conference, or he procrastinates and you all go to the conference. Either way, he’ll get the plan he needs and will realize that talking to the teacher isn’t so horrible, which will make it easier the next time.
This is just my personal philosophy but I think we parents think our job is to teach them how to solve world hunger. It’s not. It’s teaching them small everyday things like how to go talk to your teacher. Or write a thank you note. Once they can advocate for themselves, they can go solve world hunger.
NO! Many gifted kids are too smart to study just because they are supposed to. They often are bored and grades do not motivate them despite any parental efforts. Doing the busywork most need to master concepts can be too boring for them and not worth the effort. I’m shocked a college student called home for help instead of being able to manage with on campus resources. Most kids are challenging to parents as teens in HS- a mix of child and adult. The problem is convincing the teen there IS a problem. Many are strong willed, not compliant, stubborn and any other words you choose for them as this parent would agree. You can’t make most of our intelligent kids do what we know is best. Too independent.
btw- physicians can get there by hard work, most are not gifted but have well above average intelligence and are hard workers. Ambitions fit the job desired. A college friend and I once wondered together if we should have gone the other’s route- PhD/MD. The most gifted people I have met over the years- my and son’s generation often do not have the highest grades.
OP- good luck. You are doing your best. Reminds me of why we do not want to turn back the clock and parent teens again. An adult in his life- teacher/coach/guidance counselor- as mentor may have better luck getting through to your kid. Perhaps a one time visit yourself with his guidance counselor will give you ideas and s/he can get through to him afterwards- without any more input from you. We can’t all have wunderkinds who do as much as they can.
But @MiamiDAP , it is deeper than that. I have one anal kid who is very detail oriented. Never a worry. If it means work harder, so be it.
And I’ve got one like the OP. I raised them both. They both heard the same words, lessons, threats, begging, etc…
Some kids are not motivated, or they are not mature enough, or whatever, but the parenting style and advice to “work harder” doesn’t always work. Work smarter…that is what we need to show them!
As an aside – still sending gifts to the teachers in high school? That was a lower school thing for my kids – I guarantee not one would have been delivered to a HS teacher.
You know, a lot of life is boring for below average students too. Life can be boring and it’s not possible for a teacher to make every second of every class fascinating, every math problem assigned an enlightenment experience.
I handled a juvenile criminal matter for a friend’s son. The terms of the sentence are standard - go to school, no guns, no further trouble. First thing they asked was if he could go hunting with an adult, so I got it clarify that he could. Next they wanted to know if guns included paint guns. I said he needed to assume they did, and he could live without paintballing for 6 months. Next they wanted to know if he could skip the ‘regular’ amount of school. What? At his school the students could skip each class up to 3 times a semester. Some classes were boring. What!!! I said I wasn’t going to ask (I had worked for this judge and it was already difficult to ask for favors) and he should just plan on going to school as required by the order - all the time. I told them that at work, I attended the SAME meeting every week, that it was the SAME discussion every week, the same people asked the same questions every week. It was boring. It was my job. You won’t be surprised to learn that this smart kid dropped out of college (boring) and now grows pot (legally) for a living.
If kids are so smart they are bored in class, I think that’s their problem. Draw, read, do the problems backwards, write a poem. Of course some of the homework is boring but it is not a private tutoring session, it’s a school to serve the most people for the lowest cost. My daughter didn’t like doing the homework because she was afraid she’d make a mistake and she didn’t like to be wrong. Too bad! I still made her do it.
Sometimes kids don’t talk to teachers because there is no time to do so. It’s not like college where the professors have office hours. The school bus may arrive only a few minutes before the first class starts and depart a few minutes after the last class ends, and the teachers aren’t required to be in their rooms during those few minutes. So the student may not have an opportunity to speak with the teacher.
@ScreenName48105, I was just about to write a very similar approach. No one has mentioned the possibility that there may be something about the teacher that is making the OP’s sone feel uncomfortable besides shyness. Some teachers are not approachable, some make student’s feel humiliated, some are inflexible so talking to him/her might be like talking to the wall. Setting an appointment and going with the student to talk to the teacher together gives the parent an opportunity to model how to engage in these types of discussions with teachers. The parent can also have a better guage as to what might actually be occuring and where the breakdown is.
I know the teachers at our school may not be available everyday before or after school, but are available by email. If this student was uncomfortable approaching the teacher in person , why did he not send an email ? Has it ever been established why his grade slipped? Was he doing poorly on tests or was he not completing homework or class work ?
…next question to S, how many? Five. Put them in your backpack, I tell him. Nag, nag. The last day of school before break, I come downstairs to find all five chocolate bars on the counter.