We have UPS stores near our home so it’s not that difficult to do returns. I measured D and we were pleasantly surprised that the dress she ordered really fit her well except for minor hemming with that mail order brand, Azazie. Totally better experience from her prior mail order with competing company.
I’ve found that some of our UPS stores take Amazon returns, others don’t. (Might be franchise owner decision?)
My daughter‘s wedding is going to be both an incredibly happy time and an incredibly difficult time for me. This was just highlighted to me today. My ex, who is my daughter‘s father, has been a real jerk to me during and after our divorce, and I simply don’t want to be in the same room with him. My divorce was a lot worse than most, but certainly better than Some. But the guy, physically, emotionally, and economically intimidated m. And it’s going to be really hard for me to have to be around him.
The impetus for today’s comments are we are going to look at my daughter‘s preferred venue next week. Originally she did not invite him, but she thought she could invite him to a zoom session. Ends up, he’s insisting on coming in person and wants us all to have dinner afterwards. I think it’s disgusting that he is acting like he’s a great guy. And, if I try to pull out, it looks like I’m the jerk. Ugh, this is going to be so hard.
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I think it’s fine to say to your D that you can manage to tour the venue together, but you draw the line at dining with this man. I think a certain amount of self-preservation is a good precedent to set so early in the process. There are certain to be other times when he pushes the limits, so perhaps D will benefit from the example of a boundary. You don’t have to explain yourself to anybody. Good luck 
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I just found out the Michael’s near me takes UPS packages (with a prepaid label). Look around as there may be a new drop off location near you.
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I think this is good advice.
I hope your daughter understands some of what you’ve been through
The other person, his opinions matters none.
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As much as you dislike your Ex for your stated reasons, by acting like he doesn’t bother or influence you at all will be a weight off of you. Pretend like he is a ‘neutral’ person - one you do not need to like or dislike. By taking the high road, you do not need to even think about his past bad behavior. At this time, he has no power to physically, emotionally or economically intimidate you.
You might have a heart-to-heart talk with your DD about how everything can be joyful, but it would be helpful to have some boundaries due to residual feelings on your part.
Your DD has the power as it is her fiancé and her wedding, despite the financial contributions other make. She can limit your exposure to your Ex - so it is all polite and comfortable for you.
He can act now like he is a great guy, and at least if he doesn’t act badly as he did during and after the divorce, just try to have it be like water off a duck’s back - not worthy of afterthought.
With some kernels of ideas to your DD, she can perhaps steer her dad to having you be less uncomfortable by having limited doses of him.
Does DD’s fiancé know about the history of DD’s dad’s bad behavior in the past? Sometimes dads will want to establish a relationship with future SIL, and the fiancé can perhaps steer the situations as well.
Thank you for your suggestions, I appreciate it. It’s good food for thought.
I do feel like he can still hurt me, either way. I think I just need to sit down and really analyze how realistic these feelings and fears are. Certainly if I don’t go, he might financially hurt me. Dinner will be with the kids and the future in-laws to discuss the wedding plans. When the kids got engaged, he set the wedding budget with no input from me by telling them that he’d pay half the wedding costs up to $X. X was about double what I would have wanted to spend. But the kids were all pumped up about it, so I could either go along with it or be the bad guy. I’d rather avoid being put in that situation again. But I also don’t want to be anywhere near this guy. I think it’s unlikely, but I know that he still hates me (my D let that slip), and I have some fear of him looking to hurt my reputation or relationships somehow. He’s certainly said some things to some of my family members before in an effort to cause trouble between us, and I’d rather just keep this person as far out of my life as possible.
I appreciate the perspectives and will be thinking carefully about this. Thank you.
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If you have a therapist this is a great place to discuss your boundaries.
I understand the importance of keeping the peace and protecting the peace with your daughter. While also protecting yourself and your boundaries, both mentally and economically.
It seems like a really hard place to be.
My bil went through a very contentious divorce after his children were adults. Life events like weddings and baby showers have been full of complications and compromise. Thankfully his daughter is starting to see the manipulation, and is quietly letting her father have some of his agency. It’s been a process.
I wish you well and hope that you can find a place where you can assert your independence while supporting your daughter.
Also weddings seem to bring out the worst in manipulative behavior by someone who’s tends to want ultimate control. That is a really hard place to be.
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Are you able to tell your daughter and FSIL this? Just this succinctly and without malice? This is a fine “I” message to give them – you aren’t asking anyhing of them but listening. You aren’t demanding they change anything. You are just asking to be heard, and that seems like a reasonable position.
The wedding planning can really exacerbate tensions. Give yourself permission to stand as far away as gives you safety and peace of mind. Your D and FSIL ought to be able to understand (esp. when your ex starts making demands, as people with money tend to do) It’s also true that the bride and groom start plannig with ideas that change significantly as they go. Hang in there.
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@melvin123 I have no idea if your ex is a narcissist, but if so
Remember that narcissists want to be the center of attention and will ruin any occasion when the focus shifts from them.
The counter is to be a steady and stable force while they try to control everything
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Make sure you don’t sit across from him. Use the mantra, “this too shall pass”.
I was the buffer between my cousin and her ex. Do you have a child that can do this for you?
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This may not be a good idea…but your ex is a jerk so….
How about you confront him head on - a conversation about how you expect to be treated (and how NOT) and do that conversation with someone else present - even a family member - so that you have some witnesses to what he agrees or is a jerk and doesn’t agree to do.
Dude should not get away with treating you this way. Wedding or no wedding.
(This is all easy for me to say of course not being in the situation!)
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I am quite sure he is as distasteful as you describe and avoidance is your best stance, but I do have a question.
How does his wedding budget impact your contribution?
He’ll contribute up to X; you can afford Y.
So either X+Y, or 2Y comes from the bride’s parents.
That gets added to the couple’s contribution and anything the groom’s parents deem appropriate.
All of that equals the budget, IMO.
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If not a narcissist, a very selfish person. It seems as soon as he stops loving someone or wanting/needing something, his negative behaviors can kick in. And manipulation is the name of the game. He wants others superficially to think he is the greatest guy, so he gets ‘support’ from people that don’t really know him (deeply) well. Living with someone, if observant, they can pick up on the deceptions, the sneakiness, the getting their way on situations big and small.
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I was divorced when both of my kids got married. Our divorce wasn’t bad, but I never liked interactions with him and his wife. I let my kids know that I very much want them to have a good relationship with their dad, but I would rather not be there when they do see each other, except when it is not avoidable. My daughters have been very respectful and considerate about my feelings.
For their weddings, I paid for a lot of expenses. I didn’t consult my ex because I figured he would pay whatever he wanted to. We both walked our daughters down the aisle, but we didn’t sit at the same table or anywhere close to each other. My girls and I went to look for the wedding dresses together, but they brought their dad for the fitting and I had the final look at the dresses when they were done.
We were all so busy at the weddings that I really didn’t have any time to interact with my ex, but we also weren’t there to cause any problems for each other either.
It sounds like you may need to set some boundary with your ex. I would ask him for the sake of your kid that you should both try to be cordial, not just for the wedding, but also for the future.
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From the initial post it sounds like the dad threw out an amount (without consulting his ex-wife) and who knows how he thought this would play out - would he manipulate things to have the ex-wife be the ‘bad person’ for not coming up with a certain amount of money outside of her financial comfort zone?
I would prepare those close to you (OP) with some guarded information - and work yourself up emotionally for the father to be there with the venue viewing and the dinner after. I wonder if as the showoff guy if he is planning to pick up that dinner tab since he initiated having the dinner gathering or was the dinner gathering already planned and he is now going to be the 6th person there (parents of groom, the bride and groom to be, and you)?
Before the venue meeting, do find out from DD about how the finances are to be worked out, and if the dad committed money which is going to mean half from you and half from him, or what he said (or didn’t say).
IDK if your DD knows about your finances and retirement nest egg (or not much or not enough in retirement funding).
Don’t know if DD’s future in-laws are financially very comfortable, nor what the expectations and finances are with DD and her future husband.
Wedding expenses can get very much out of hand, and the bride and groom can control quite a bit of it.
IDK if the dad has ever been manipulative with DD but indicate to DD that you want her day to be very special. You do not want her dad to control things that DD does not want him to control - IDK if he will try manipulation with her now or in the future, but she will take the blinders off with her dad at some point and learn how to handle boundaries.
Suck up what you need to suck up but prepare as best you can and work at being a good actress. Try to keep pleasant as is necessary and go over words of wisdom from the sources that work for you. Do not let your ex spoil the memories of your daughter’s wedding and surrounding events. You can control yourself and how you react/respond to your ex in any situation. Hopefully he does not get you off-balance on your preparedness.
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I don’t have a ton of money, but my half is do-able. It’s a question of allocation of resources. My ex & I fought bitterly when we were married about how much money should be spent on celebrating milestones. For example, his demand for a milestone party for our daughter for 50 people in an upscale restaurant while he was unemployed seemed crazy to me. It was a beautiful day, but when you don’t have enough money to buy new tires for the car, spending that kind of money rather than hosting at home seemed insane to me. But that’s what was expected by his family, and to do anything less would have been a big embarrassment to him. I think the same is true for this wedding.
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Hopefully your DD/future SIL will be able to see how one does not need to ‘impress the Joneses’ or other family members’ “expectations”. Glad your half is do-able, but hopefully your Ex will not bump up any future expectations or put unnecessary pressures on DD/future SIL.
Also that DD/future SIL are realistic on the choices they make so they have the wedding that suits THEM and has the event be happy for them.
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Control is definitely a massive issue for my ex. I really didn’t have the skills for dealing with control issues, so I did spend years in therapy both during and after the marriage to learn how to set boundaries and generally deal with this. Part of that involved taking him to court multiple times to maintain boundaries and to get some independence for my D, such as the right for her to participate in sports or other activities. This kind of active management isn’t in my nature at all, so it’s really hard and rather unpleasant for me. And the financial costs have been tremendous. Honestly, it’s just been such a relief to not have to deal with him in any way for the last several years.
My D is fully aware of her dad’s issues because she’s experienced them herself and she had to see child psychologists in connection with various court proceedings. But of course she loves him, as she should.
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