My daughter received a 5 on her AP calc exam. The college she wants to attend has all students take a placement test to make sure they are ready for Pre-calc and then take Pre-calc, regardless of AP scores.
She did absolutely nothing to prepare for the placement test. She also is not taking math this year so is out of practice. She feels she did not do well because the test extensively / repeatedly covered one Algebra 1 topic she had forgotten how to do. I heard other students complaining about this as well. While she feels confident on the remainder of the test, she is worried they will still try to make her take Pre-calc.
She can refuse and get the credit from her AP score. She will not be taking any credit for calculus. She also reviewed the topic after the test and fully understands it. ‘skipping’ this class will only have the benefit of lightening the load one semester.
She can refuse to take pre-calculus. Her AP score automatically gives her credit for pre-calc and the first term of calculus. When she asked if she was supposed to take the test since she got the 5, she was told the test results would not invalidate her AP credit. But, that they strongly recommend everyone takes the test regardless. Then when she went for the test they told her they want all students to take pre-calculus. They feel students won’t do well otherwise.
So I guess my post is 2 things -
does anyone who did that well on AP regret skipping pre-calculus (not calculus)
starting her very first semester refusing their blanket (not individualized) ‘rule’ seems like maybe a bad way to begin.
By the way, she is an engineering student. So, we do understand they need to be sure the students are sound in math.
I’m an engineer. I would be concerned if a student couldn’t pass a placement exam like that. If it were my child, I would advise her to take pre-calculus.
I’m an engineer, though it’s been many years since I’ve been in college. I have one in school for engineering and one headed off in the fall that will also be taking engineering (doomed from birth as I like to say.)
What other first year classes is she taking? Will she be able to take physics (for example) if she starts off with precalc? Can she take a look at a final exam for the pre-Calc class to see if there is anything more difficult on the final as opposed to the placement exam?
Seems that you are aware that Calc is important to engineering. You say she isn’t going to skip any Calc, right? I don’t see the problem here. You said she reviewed the material afterwards to refresh her memory and I’d say if she feels it’s solid then great. She got a 5 on the AP exam- she clearly had some sort of grasp of Calc to earn that. It isn’t all a multiple choice test- she obviously managed to deal with the free answer questions on the AP exam.
My kids are far enough along that they won’t be taking any college math for engineering other than a statistics class so it’s kinda hard to offer any experience based advice. I will say the oldest has watched fellow engineering students crash and burn this year by trying to jump from AP to Calc 2 but who knows how strong of math students they were to begin with. You seem to imply that her option is to start with Calc 1. I think she’d be fine but it’s going to be school dependent. Probably won’t hurt to take a look at a department final for pre-Calc before making a decision. And if sets her back from being able to take physics then that could be a stumbling block for finishing in four years.
I agree with missbwith2boys. If D has a 5 in AP calc and is going into Calculus I, she should be fine. If anything, get a copy of the pre-calc textbook (any will do) and review over the summer to make sure she is adept at all the basic functions, trig, logarithms, etc. The biggest problem my Calculus students had was poor algebra skills. Hone up a little and dive in! I don’t recommend skipping Calculus I if she is an engineering major.
The freshman engineering year is very structured. All engineering students take the same engineering, math, and chemistry courses each quarter. These are paired with things like communication, freshman year experience, English 101, etc. Physics starts 3rd quarter.
It does not help graduate early. She is only bringing in credits for Pre-calc and us history, and maybe computer science and English 101. She is choosing to start with calc 1 and chem 1 regardless of ap scores. With the sequencing nature of this kind of major, all these credits will allow her is lightening the load a few semesters.
We will see how she actually scored on that test. They heavily tested on Matrices. Not sure why, but maybe somehow they use it a lot. She hasn’t done them since 7th grade, so totally wasn’t prepared for it.
Having a student with a 5 on calculus BC start in precalculus seems like she is attending a school with very low admission standards like Louisiana Tech (an example of a school whose engineering flowcharts start in precalculus, not calculus 1 like most others: http://coes.latech.edu/assets/curriculum_me_flow_128.pdf (Math 240 = precalculus), although even they allow AP calculus scores to skip precalculus and some calculus courses according to http://admissions.latech.edu/testing.php#ap ).
She should see if she can get the old final exams for precalculus, calculus 1, and calculus 2 and try them to see what courses she knows the material well. For those she knows the material well, she should be able to skip them and take additional free electives in their place (possibly later if she jumps right into more advanced math and finishes the math sequence early).
Starting in pre-calc after a 5 on AP exam seems strange. Was the AP exam AB or BC?
My D (who scored a 5 on AP calc BC) did as others have suggested and tried old final exams for Calc 1 and 2. She found old exams and answer keys on the internet for various colleges and tried more than one. She had no trouble with them and chose to start in Calc 3 at college. She had no trouble in that class or subsequent math and engineering coursework.
What to do in this situation is an individual thing. Some kids should skip, some should repeat. Your D sounds from your description like she would be okay skipping, if she’s the kind of kid who will go back on her own and figure out or seek help on anything she doesn’t understand. She can decide what to do once she has the results of the placement test.
The math faculty who believe this have the power to do something about it. They could lobby for changes in math department policy to:
a. Not accept AP scores for advanced placement, and/or offer their own advisory or mandatory placement tests for advanced placement in math, or
b. Offer a special accelerated calculus course that fills in whatever gaps they see in AP calculus without needlessly repeating what students with AP calculus should know well.
@ucbalumnus: The first option would depend on whether they are at a public or private and which state if a public.
Some states mandate that all their publics have to accept AP’s above a certain score.
However, a mandate for the public schools to give credit units for AP scores does not necessarily extend to subject credit or advanced placement. For example, UCs have a uniform credit unit policy for AP scores, but each campus, division, or major can have its own subject credit and advanced placement policies.
I remember my D getting a 5 on AP Calc BC, her college math class covered everything in approx 3 weeks then had totally new material. She was glad that she opted not to take the credit, she said she would have struggled with the next level course.
Because of the grade deflation nature of AP is she is confident that she mastered ore-calc, maybe she should consider take it to give her gap a cushion. Is there any merit $$ on the line?
Too late to change schools. I find it strange to require a precalc class in college. Placement tests usually are for needing remedial classes to meet college math ability for graduation. Especially in math there is no reason to repeat what one already knows. UW (Madison) usually advises students who took AP calculus to start with their first semester version of calculus because it covers more than the AP version and most students will be unprepared for second semester UW calc (there is also an Honors math/calc sequence for those excellent math students).
No reason to repeat the known material. One can always learn something- but is the time required worth the small bit of knowledge gained? I doubt it. More likely a setup for boredom and developing poor study skills. She (it is her fight, not yours) should fight for what she believes is in her best interest.