A BIG DEVELOPMENT - NEED ADVICE - Ds friends are drinking She's upset

Parent Cafe
1

<p>D (16 years old) came to me in tears tonight (this is the same d who tells me nothing - boy when she decides to open up it’s a whopper!) saying that a friend called to tell her that d’s best friend and another girl were really drunk tonight. D is mad because 1. friends are drinking 2. everyone but her seemed to know about it but her-seems like there was lots of stuff going on but she was unaware of everything so she feels really left out even though she doesn’t want to drink. She’s ready to confront friends and jeopardize a long friendship with best friend and wants me to call the parents to tell them that their kids were drinking. </p>

<p>I don’t know what to say to console her and I can use your advice.- She probably already has lost her best friend - because the girl is moving in a faster crowd than she is and because d is one of the few kids in the group who doesn’t want to drink. D is on the quiet side and doesn’t have a big group of friends so it’s not like there are more than 1 or 2 other kids to turn to.</p>

<p>Plus d’s friends mother and I are good friends - should I tell her what her daughter is up to? Does that make me and my daughter the snitches?
I really am confused now…</p>

<p>How ironic - I just posted earlier that D never shares anything with me…I’d better be careful what I wish for…</p>

2

<p>Snitching is saying someone wore lipstick to school when they weren’t supposed to, or used cliffnotes for a report.</p>

<p>It is not snitching to tell another parent their child is drinking, especially to that extent. Be prepared for said mom to be mad at YOU. Shot the messenger and all that. Remember, the information you are getting is third hand, but if you say that, if perchance it was wrong or an exageration, you are okay. What abour parents of girl who called with the juicy news? Do you know them? Maybe mom can will be kind enough to not share who told her. After all, it was the girls other friend who is spreading the news. If she tells one kids, wanna bet she told several?</p>

<p>I would want to know.</p>

<p>As for daughter, get her really really busy. Fill up that calendar for awhile. Its harder to focus on a loss so much if one is busy. And those one or two friends to turn to is enough. She was already losing that friend. Right now D is really angry and hurt. The being shut out hurts alot. But if she looks on relationship in last few weeks, she will know the friendship was disappearing already. And that it isn’t a friendship she really wants or needs. It is hard after many years, but people change.</p>

<p>She may change her mind about calling parents in the morning. You as the parent need to decide. Now, think about this. You and the mom are friends. What if it was your D and she didn’t tell you? This friendship may be on shakey ground anyway if your Ds are drifting apart.</p>

<p>I am so sorry. I had to call my Ds friend’s parents tonight because friend was supposed to be here by 7 and at 830 still “waiting for bus”…so I called the Dad. He was off to get his D in a heartbeat. I felt a tiny bit bad calling, but would have felt much worse if I didn’t.</p>

<p>But protecting your D is the most important thing. You need to REALLY know the other mom and how she will deal. Bet she knows or suspects something already.</p>

3

<p>16 must be the age, for that is we went through the same exact situation with my son. You don’t want your daughter hung with the snitch label, it is highschool and anything that can be preceived as negative is going to be exploited by someone to make her life in school miserable.
In our situation I went to the father and I told him what had happened. He agreed to approach it a way that wouldn’t let his son know he was ratted out.
Several of my son’s friends were moving into a <em>faster</em> crowd at that point. I think he tagged along a couple of times and decided it wasn’t for him. He made new friends and moved on</p>

4

<p>I think that your daughter has solid values and a lot of guts. I encourage you to encourage her to confront her friends. If they are real friends, they will remain her friends whether or not they follow her advice. If they turn on her, she really is better off without them.</p>

<p>This site says that if teens’ friends use alcohol, one should suggest that the teen find new friends. Makes sense to me. Better for your D to have one or two friends who share her values than to hang out with people who are running in a fast crowd. <a href=“http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/34970/34979/417716.html?d=dmtChildGuide[/url]”>http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH/WSIHW000/34970/34979/417716.html?d=dmtChildGuide&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I also think that you should call her best friend’s mom particularly since your D is encouraging you to do this. It says a lot of good about your D that she’s willing to do so much and to risk so much to try to help out a friend. If you don’t tell the mom, I think that you’d be indicating to your D that either you think that teen drinking isn’t really a problem or that you think it’s better to ignore major problems instead of risking a friendship.</p>

<p>I also think that if your D is telling you this, probably there’s even worse stuff about her friends and their substance abuse and lifestyles that she’s not telling you. For instance, teens who drink are more likely than nondrinkers to become victimized by date rape. My best friend in high school was raped while drunk.</p>

<p>As senior year ended, she started hanging out with a fast crowd that I was not friends with. Up until this point, she was a person who didn’t drink, etc. While out with them, she was raped by a guy whom she had just met.</p>

<p>She never told anyone but me.</p>

5

<p>Talk to your daughter about her feelings; let her vent; share similar experiences of your own. I don’t think that you should call the friend’s mom - that is likely to backfire on you and/or your daughter. Girl’s relationships can be very on-again, off-again. If your daughter wants to report it to the other parents, you should offer to go with her when SHE reports it (doing it together), after first discussing the pros and cons of doing that with your daughter. However, that really may not be an effective choice – yes it airs the issue, but it doesn’t necessarily lead to a solution. It could lead to your daughter being ostracized further. </p>

<p>I honestly know how you feel, because I have had the same issue come up. It is very hard to stay rational and focus on the central fact that my daughter is coming to me for support and guidance. However, these issues are very typical at this age – in fact, it is such a big issue at my daughter’s school that the principal ended up calling a community meeting to discuss alcohol and drug abuse, after a rash of suspensions at the school. The meeting was suprisingly positive and well attended by parents and teens, and certainly was an example of an ideal way to air the issues. I don’t know if it is going to change anything, but at least it got everyone talking. One of the nice things was that a couple of kids who have had alcohol abuse problems in the past got up and spoke about their problems and their current efforts to stay sober - and got big rounds of applause. </p>

<p>Anyway, my point is that to your daughter it is a very big deal, because she feels betrayed by her friends and also is worried about the drinking. But this is not the first nor the last time she will encounter this. It might be better to help your daughter explore various options more fully. If your daughter is thinking that you can report it to the other parents, that they will then punish and restrict their kids and things will go back to the way they were before… well, that’s not how things work in the real world. More likely the response of parents may be to circle the wagons take offense at the allegations … and since your daughter only heard the report third-hand, it is quite possible that the report is exaggerated or false.</p>

6

<p>thanks for the advice. As much as I wouldn’t want to hear it - I would want to know that my D was involved in something potentially harmful and dangerous. D and I will talk again in the morning. For now I think she and I both need a good night’s sleep. Any additional thoughts are welcomed, encouraged, etc.</p>

7

<p>If it were my kid who might be doing something risky, I would rather a friend pass along a third hand report than for my child to possibly be in trouble and for me to not know.</p>

<p>IMO if a friend ends a friendship at hearing that kind of info that was given with a caveats that it hasn’t been verified, then the friend wasn’t much of a friend.</p>

<p>I would not leave up to my kid whether I should pass along such info. I think that your D’s first instincts were correct.</p>

8

<p>I am in the same position as your daughter. My friends have been making some very poor decisions lately. I am diametrically opposed to many of their choices. The rest, I merely tolerate. I have brought this up with each of them individually, to no avail. My social life has faltered as a result. It does not help that I have relationships with some of these kids parents, as well (personal and “professional”).</p>

<p>I will not discuss my response on a public forum, but I’m receptive to questions and advice via private message.</p>

<p>[edits]
In response to calmom: This isn’t just a 16-year-old-girl thing. I am a senior male and I’ve found myself in the same situation.</p>

<p>Some more for nunofyurbeesknees: Unlike your daughter, I know for certain what is happening. One friend even had the gall to invite me. . . after one of our discussions. Despite these differences, the underlying conflict remains.
[/edits]</p>

9

<p>Gosh. So glad your D opened up. You have a great sniffer nun. You knew there was soemthing going on…</p>

<p>As one who called parents–highly educated parents of 15 year olds who had been served hard liquor–I can say with certainty: few parents will appreciate your call. The only one who did appreciate it was one of my best friends. She was like myself–she had realistic expectations about her S’s behavior; ie he might not stay innocent forever, he might be fallible, he might be tempted.</p>

<p>It was a good lesson for the boys as they watched their friends lie through their teeth and set them out to hang. They didn’t lose social standing. It all was swept under the social carpet. But they were boys and had center social standing anyway.</p>

<p>So…not sure the two of you can save the group of girls but you can be there for each other. It is a tough time. Imagine how bad it must be for her to break down to tears. I feel for her–and you too. ::cyber hug::</p>

10

<p>Nom, the “girl” thing I was referring to was not the drinking part, but the ups & downs of relationships. What I mean is that, with my daughter, I have experienced the situation something like this: D & friends X & Y are no long associating with A, because A has taken up some vice (drinking, smoking pot, etc.). A week later, D is hanging with A, A is the only one she could possibly trust, the stories about A’s vices weren’t true, it was just one time but A doesn’t do that sort of stuff any more. Then the next week, D is back with X but not Y, and Y & A are the best of friends. </p>

<p>I didn’t see this stuff happen with my son, which is why I thought it was a girl thing - it’s been happening with my d. since the 5th grade. I don’t know if it’s all that common, actually – for some reason D. has grown up with a group of friends who came through school together since kindergarten - its a small community, lots of back & forth, many of the girls live within a few blocks of each other. My D. doesn’t even go to the same high school with them – she has a whole new set of h.s. friends, but still maintains these old friendships. I tend to hear about the drinking/drug use/sex issues with these girls, but that might be largely because I don’t really know the high school friends well – also I don’t think my d. is as worried by or hurt by what she sees the high school friends doing, simply since she doesn’t have this history with them - and she has probably chosen her new friends more carefully. </p>

<p>So I might be all wrong in my suggestions here – I just kind of mentally substitute in the saga of my daughter and her best friend and their nearest circle of friends. So the social dynamic is very fluid, always changing – plus I really don’t know where the “truth” lies in terms of what these girls say so-and-so is doing one week and deny ever having said the next week. As a parent, I try very hard to simply focus on keeping my eyes and ears open to what is going on with my d. – not at all in an intrusive way, but just paying close attention. </p>

<p>I wish it was as simple as telling other parents what I’ve heard – but the truth is, I think that some of the parents really are either aware of it or wilfully blind to it, letting it happen under their noses. I mean, some of the parents make no effort to monitor what their kids are doing, and don’t supervise what is going on in their own houses. That’s why I’d be hesitant about calling up a parent unless I was reporting something I had personal knowledge about – or at least much better information than what a one friend told my d. about other friends. Too much “Mean Girls” stuff going on with my d’s little crowd for me to trust what comes over the grapevine.</p>

11

<p>This may be a dumb idea - but have you thought of sending an anonymous letter? You could be courteous, and explain there that you didn’t want to be ‘shot as the messenger’, and that you were doing this strictly out of concern for their D’s health/life.</p>

<p>As a parent myself, I tried to imagine what my reaction would be if I received a letter like this. I think if the tone was polite and reflected a genuine concern, I would be glad someone told me.</p>

12

<p>Maybe go with anonymous letter. Gives the parents choice about following up. Call that step #1 and see if it helps.</p>

<p>Independently of that, perhaps talk to the Parents Association or whatever you’ve got about organizing an Alcohol awareness week or day or workshop-- get police with dwi info and AA involved and maybe women’s groups with info on date rape +alcohol. </p>

<p>We visited Goucher’s campus recently and they happened to have a booth run by local police with just this kind of info on campus that day
and kids were stopping by picking up brochures and looking at breathalizer equipment.</p>

13

<p>Lots of good advice here. I would definitely want to know if the child in question was mine, and I’d feel that I owed a good friend the information that her child was engaging in risky/illegal behavior. BUT - your d only has hearsay to go on at this point, which isn’t enough to justify approaching the parent. If your d hears her friend admit to being drunk, then shares that information with you, I’d contact the girl’s parents - though it would certainly be one of the more difficult things on the “to do” list that day.</p>

<p>The kind of person the mom is will probably determine how she receives the news, though your tone can help. You’re obviously motivated by concern for your d’s friend, so you won’t come across as criticizing the mom/child, or feeling superior. The mom may already know or suspect the alcohol use, in which case you won’t be crushing any illusions, though she may then be feeling lost or overwhelmed. She might feel reassured to know that of course you wouldn’t share this information with anyone else (a small grace, but still an appreciated one).</p>

<p>If the alcohol use is confirmed but you just don’t feel you can approach your friend, I think an anonymous note is better than ignoring the situation. It would allow you to shield your d as an informant, and it would also give the mom a way to begin a difficult conversation with her daughter (“I want you to read this - what can you tell me about it?”).</p>

14

<p>Again, thanks for all the advice, keep it coming - because I have a feeling that I am not alone in this.<br>
Pyewacket- funny you mention the PA thing and a drug and alcohol program. My school PA is in the forefront of bringing this issue out in the open and in fact just last week held a parents only forum where 5 high school kids discussed what really happens on the weekends in our community. I couldn’t make the event, but from the reports I got it was quite an eye opening experience. There is a follow up meeting opened to all - I’d better be sure to attend that one.</p>

<p>BTW - d did talk to friend who says " I don’t know what you’re talking about - etc…" so they lying begins.</p>

<p>This IS tough, and unlike when they were little - the mistakes they make at this age can be deadly.</p>

15

<p>You are not alone in facing this situation. But since there is no “one size fits all” solution, you and your daughter will need to create a customized plan of action. First of all, do not call the other mother today. Give yourself some time to think. Your daughter has reached a fork in the road, and has come to you for direction. Wow!! This is a good thing. </p>

<p>How does your daughter envision the rest of her high school experience, academically and socially? What do you and your husband want for her? Talk with her and craft a vision. It can be detailed or general, but needs to be articulated. This vision (mission statement?)needs to provide a sense of the future, so that your daughter can continue to make choices that are consistent with her personal goals. The stronger her sense of direction, the better she can overcome bumps in the road such as changes in relationships with best friends.</p>

<p>When my son and I did this during his sophomore year, we found that many of the things he wanted for himself were consistent with what I wanted for him. One of the most significant things we both wanted was a good relationship with each other. To me, a good relationship did not include the deception involved in the underage drinking scene.</p>

<p>Your daughter cannot remake the social scene in her community, but her task is to find a comfortable place in it. She needs to develop a circle of friends who move at her speed. It is heartbreaking when best friends start to evolve in different directions, especially for the one left behind. Help her to identify some relationships that have potential, and figure out ways to develop them. My son had a friend two years older who emerged at a time when my son’s circle of grade level friends was falling apart, and it meant the world. The chances are that because of their long history, your daughter and her best friend will feel inclined to rekindle their relationship during senior year. All is not lost there. But for now, things are in transition.</p>

<p>If your daughter truly is quiet, get a couple of recordings such as “how to make small talk” and listen to them in the car. I was shy and quiet in high school but didn’t know that I could develop better social skills; unfortunately I believed that the cards had been dealt. </p>

<p>All of this will take time. In high school, a month seems like a year. If you decide to approach the other mother, be prepared for that relationship to change. Chances are, the other mom’s reaction will be embarassed, defensive, incredulous, and angry, especially if she is unaware of any partying in your daughters’ social circles. You will think that you are helping; she will think that you are criticizing her for lack of supervision, not being a good mother, etc. She will demand details from her daughter concerning this weekend’s activities. The daughter is likely to lie; she needs to back up her weekend alibi, will not want to get in trouble, get her other friends in trouble, get the friends’ parents involved, etc. The mom may have different views on adolescent alcohol use and may be more comfortable with it than you think, or prefer to believe that her daughter behaves otherwise. The other mom will side with her daughter and distance herself from you.</p>

<p>You have a longstanding relationship with the other mother. It would be ideal if you can keep your relationship and work together to address health and safety issues such as drinking, but that may not pan out given that her daughter is already drinking. Educate yourself about the social scene in your community. Information is power. Call some moms that you are aquainted with, who have daughters one or two years older. Invite them over for coffee, and ask them questions about the social landscape… everything from cars, curfews, weekends, parties, etc. What have they observed? How have they dealt with things? I have found that the subject of driving is a good launching point that naturally branches out to the other subjects. </p>

<p>So you will be educating yourself on the social scene at the same time you are helping your daughter with some big issues… yes, it’s a lot. Good luck!</p>

16

<p>As other posters have noted, this is a painful and quite common phenomenon in high school. There are always some kids who rather suddenly go from quiet/nice/non-partiers to drinkers, usually becuase thye haev somehow managed to be accepted by a “cooler” crowd and lack the maturity to resist being conventionally popular. Sometimes they get over this very quickly and return ot the original social group; sometimes not. (My younger child graduated from last year, so I have been through this in various forms.)</p>

<p>That said, and with praise for your daughter for apparently having strong values adn a good sense of who she is, there are some caveats here. Most notably, a call from one friend about other friends needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You just don’t know what else is going on in the social chemistry, and the girl who called may be perfectly sincere or she may be trying to make trouble. I would be very cautious (in fact, do nothing right now) in terms of telling the other girl’s mother about the problem. At most I would talk in the msot general terms about drinking in the girls’ class, the rise of parties, the development of cliques, all very hypothetical–playing dumb in a sense. I would certainly not send an anonymous letter because to my mind anonymity is scary in itself and if the recipient doesn’t know the source of information there is no way of assessing that information.</p>

<p>Keep your daughter as happy and busy as possible; encourage any constructive interests she has and give her lots of positive support, but both you and your daughter also should avoid what can be a trap of characterizing other kids based on hearsay. Though unfortunately it may well be true it seems to me that the situation you describe may more complex than it seems.
(I think many of speckledegg’s suggestions are excellent and appropriate.)</p>

17

<p>You are not alone. This has happened to both of children, both around the same age. It’s really hard on the kids. They are friends with kids for years and then poof! some of the kids get into partying and some don’t want to have anything to do with it. If you don’t want to go to the drinking parties you either stay home or find another set of friends. It’s really hard on the kids who don’t want to party. They have to make new sets of friends.</p>

<p>I’m going through this also. I have a very good friend who has a D in my D’s class. The girls are not friends. My friends D has been going around with a girl that my D says has a lot of problems. She is experimenting with drugs and doing certain umm <em>favors</em> at parties. It’s all over the school. The girl in question brags about her exploits and it seems to be common knowledge around the school. </p>

<p>I spoke to my friend and all I said was that this girl that her D is friends with is “bad news” and they should not encourage the friendship. (the girl is question is having sleepovers and my D’s friend is attending) My friend told me that she couldn’t tell her D who to be friends with! Basically told me that she couldn’t control who her D is friends with and what she does with who. </p>

<p>I was very upset and called another friend and told her the situation. We all went out and my friend very convertly mentioned the things that are going on in my D’s class. </p>

<p>I don’t know what will happen but I don’t have a lot of hope that things will change. I wish that you could tell your friends what is going on with their kids but they don’t want to know. Most parents I know want their necks firmly planted in the sand.</p>

18

<p>My D has been a non drinker through HS. Most of my decisions in the “friends” arena are made with my D in mind-- wanting to do what is best for HER.</p>

<p>I have always tried to maintain a low-key attitude when she has brought me info about others drinking, etc, because (1) I definitely want to support her intelligence in not being a boozer but (2) I do not want to “horriblize” drinking so much that, if she begins to experiment, she wouldn’t come to me about it. This is a delicate balance.</p>

<p>So: </p>

<p>I would take a “jury is out” attitude to dropping the friendship-- because basically decent & good people can and do make mistakes. I would want to model an attitude of being understanding PRIMARILY because I would want my D to know I could forgive HER mistake some day. So I would encourage my D to steer clear of the girls who are drinking without officially “dropping” them.</p>

<p>I would notify the parents either anonymously, or by myself, if I felt the girls’ behavior was life threatening (binge drinking/driving) or indicative of depression, abuse, etc. If it was “once, she drank until she barfed” I might leave it alone. If it is “every weekend she passes out” I would intervene. </p>

<p>I think real life demands growth from “black & white” analyses to “shades of grey” analyses. Many people eventually drink in moderation; some of these initially drink irresponsibly. IMHO, a zero-tolerance-drinking-is-evil stance seems to preclude the easy shift into moderate and responsible drinking which we would want our kids to be able to make.</p>

19

<p>Don’t be so sure the friend’s parents will react to the news in the way you expect. Some will “kill the messenger”; some will rationalize that it’s actually a good idea for their children to “experiment” while they’re still home under the family roof.</p>

<p>Your daughter has good reason to be concerned. From this point on, more and more of her acquaintances will “go over to the dark side”. If she’s really lucky, she won’t be ridiculed for her decision not to participate, but at the very least, she will be left out socially, or placed constantly in the path of temptation. Her other choice is to make friends with the kids who remain “pure”; but at some schools she may not have a lot from which to choose, at least not of the kind of kids she’s used to befriending.</p>

<p>I watched two of my kids eagerly take part in all this. My younger two eschew it, with absolutely no concern regarding the social ostracism. The difference seems to be a sense of self and a commitment to something greater; in this case, athletics.</p>

<p>There is some anecdotal information suggesting that the students who don’t drink or use drugs before college are more likely to “go wild” when they get there, which is the c.w. parents use for looking the other way with the 16-year-olds (just be glad she’s not 13!). On the other hand, the people hired by schools to educate parents about the dangers of drugs and alcohol will tell you that your child’s brain is still forming and that the longer they wait to “experiment”, the better.</p>

<p>Hopefully, she has activities planned for the summer that will provide exposure to a different group of friends and give her more options.</p>

20

<p>My almost 15 yr old and her friends are overeducated/brainwashed IMO by information they get at school.
This is why I see it as a danger.
1- drinking FOR reasonable ADULTS can be FUN- yes its true!
2- One drink is not going to affect driving of someone who has had a meal- and they should not be lectured to by their CHILDREN!
3- sooner or later teens/college students will find out that drinking can be - relaxing- enjoyable & tasty- at which time they may throw all the information they have aquired thus far Out the window, much in the way that college students upon viewing ReeferMadness said " well- its clear that they have NO idea what they are talking about"!
I think it is important that information be focused on developing brains and how substances that are not prescribed by doctor can damage development
and that is is illegal for teens for a REASON
But I do worry- that if information is presented as all or nothing the way it sometimes is- by parents/schools, whether it be sex/drugs/alcohol, that they are going to totally discount it as coming from people who have no clue.</p>