A BIG DEVELOPMENT - NEED ADVICE - Ds friends are drinking She's upset

Parent Cafe
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<p>Mini- I hate to sound like a broken record, but I’m still processing your assertion that the type of problems discussed on this thread “just do not come up” among the families you know, whether they are neighbors, friends of your kids, or families within your homeschooling community, especially in a town that has a very big drug/alcohol scene. Further, the problems have never come up in your professional life, in which you meet 5,000 families each year in a job that you have most likely held for several years? This doesn’t make any sense to me. </p>

<p>I have to say that I consider teenage drug/alcohol experimentation and the exploration of other psychological states pharmacologically by people of any age, to be the same thing. </p>

<p>Your point about mentoring is excellent. We benefit from different types of mentors at different times. I happen to think that the quality and direction of the relationship is what’s important, not just the age difference. Sometimes a mentor can be just a couple of years older, sometimes decades older. And let’s hear it for intergenerational relationships within healthy families.</p>

<p>It’s interesting that I’m more concerned about the influence of alcohol/drugs in my kids’ lives, and I sense that you are more concerned about the influence of peers. I’m going to think more about that.</p>

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<p>Don’t you think that Mini’s modeling of do what I say, not what I do, in this case, offering virtue in reverse, is why he has not had issues with his children in the drug/alcohol arena?</p>

<p>His children obviously know that there is a history in his family. They see that his wife and he have made a choice to abstain. That is an incredibly powerful message and proves that what you say – offering his daughter access to these things – has much less clout than what you do.</p>

<p>I can’t say with any real knowledge because I have consciously refrained from participating in the party crowd, but I get the impression that the children of those who are on the cocktail party circuit sometimes emulate that behavior in a certain way. The parents who smoke marijuana or snort cocaine are, imho, more likely to have high-schoolers who dabble in those areas of experimentation. Familiarity, if no other reason.</p>

<p>Our children, more than anyone, are aware of who we really are, warts and all. They will emulate us, consciously or unconsciously, even as they purport to reject us. What happens at home osmoses into their veins, like it or not. The way we relate to our spouses, to our children, to alcohol and drugs, to family and friends…the ripples in the pond move ever outward.</p>

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<p>Mini- I hate to sound like a broken record, but I’m still processing your assertion that the type of problems discussed on this thread “just do not come up” among the families you know, whether they are neighbors, friends of your kids, or families within your homeschooling community, especially in a town that has a very big drug/alcohol scene. Further, the problems have never come up in your professional life, in which you meet 5,000 families each year in a job that you have most likely held for several years? This doesn’t make any sense to me."</p>

<p>First of all, the 5,000 families I’m talking about here are the homeschoolers (and this is nationwide - I’m an author and lecturer on the side), NOT those for whom I plan drug and alcohol services in my day job (45,000 people a year, many of whom are part of families utterly destroyed by drugs and alcohol.) They don’t just “come up” in my professional life - they ARE my professional life. In my town, I think I know, or at least have met, about 250 homeschooling families in my area - and I certainly wouldn’t assert that they are all good parents! But drug and alcohol issues just don’t seem to come up. I don’t believe they are hiding things, and it is possible that I just know the wrong ones. But in my state, 47% of 12th graders (according to our date) binge drank in the past two weeks, and I just don’t see anywhere close to that among the homeschoolers. I’m scratching my head, and I think I’ve heard of one incident in the past two years.</p>

<p>“I have to say that I consider teenage drug/alcohol experimentation and the exploration of other psychological states pharmacologically by people of any age, to be the same thing.”</p>

<p>I do think it is the same “act”, but serves a different purpose within our society. Without a long dissertation, the exploration of psychological states pharmacologically, within other cultures, is (or was) generally an act of individuation - a vision quest, a guided journey (undertaken with elders), a search of a name (or a search of a cure). Most of what I see (while it may have similar roots) is blind herd behavior - an attempt to fit in, not to individuate. (Subject for another time.)</p>

<p>Yes, of course the quality of the mentoring relationship is important. But first things first - you have to actually have one! And, it is true, I really am not concerned much about the influence of alcohol/drugs in my kids’ lives, mostly because I’ve learned through them that, for them, it just isn’t an issue. It could be, it could always become one, but to use the psychobabble we use in “prevention science” at work, their “risk factors” are extremely low, and their “preventive” factors are extremely high. And they are very much their own souls.</p>

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<p>“Just do not come up” </p>

<p>Mini, I want to believe your observation but I would be more inclined if you said it was half of the normal rate or a third the normal rate. Zero? Perfection? Utopia? </p>

<p>Uh…I ain’t buying it.</p>

<p>Do you know what my friends say about me? That many of their children are into mischief, but I am the only parent who knows what mischief–because my sons, and a surprising number of their friends, tell me the truth. Ugly though it may be. </p>

<p>That was also the beauty of the OP. Her recalcitrant D told her the truth. Give me truth over utopia any day. </p>

<p>Says me. ;)</p>

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<p>

The public school grapevine and gossip line is a lot bigger - and broader- than what homeschoolers typically experience. I mean, basically homeschoolers are choosing to restrict their family’s contacts to those that share some sort of common interests – whereas we public school parents send kids into a world where they are exposed to much more information gained via communication with others. </p>

<p>I mean, how are you going to find out about binge drinking? If it’s not among your child’s immediate circle of friends, and no one has been arrested… it is not something likely to be discussed openly. But school is a different environment, rife with gossip: for example, when my daughter was in 8th grade, a 7th grader was caught smoking a joint in the science lab. I don’t think my d. even knew the kid – but when she came home from school, I heard the whole story in excruciating detail, down to time of day, the adults involved, the names of the kid’s friends, etc. </p>

<p>More recently - in high school - a group of kids were suspended for drinking on a school-sponsored trip. I have no clue which kids they were - and their trip was for an activity that my d. doesn’t participate in – but I know because the principal decided to call a community meeting to discuss the issue. When I got the notice of the meeting I asked my daughter what was going on (the notice itself was kind of cryptic) - and then of course I got the blow-by-blow account as to what happened with these kids. </p>

<p>So it may just be that school is an environment where the odds of getting caught are higher, and the consequences for getting caught are more serious. Homeschoolers do not kick their kids out for getting drunk - but schools do suspend and expel kids for bringing alcohol to school, whether or not the kids go on a big bender or it merely is one kid with a single can of beer in his backpack.</p>

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<p>“The public school grapevine and gossip line is a lot bigger - and broader- than what homeschoolers typically experience. I mean, basically homeschoolers are choosing to restrict their family’s contacts to those that share some sort of common interests – whereas we public school parents send kids into a world where they are exposed to much more information gained via communication with others.”</p>

<p>My experience is just the opposite. The range of experiences in the world of non-sectarian teenage homeschoolers is, on the whole, much, much broader than that of the average school kid. They simply spend a lot more time out in the community, whether in community college classes, apprenticeships, volunteer opportunities, travel, work. </p>

<p>If/when problems occur, I am in a direct position to know - I act in many ways like a homeschool guidance counselor. People call me with their problems (and there are many!) They call me up for consultations. They track me down in hallways at hotels where I am speaking. They pay me for family conferences. The list of problems with which I end up dealing is huge. Many folks, from my bio, know of my AOD expertise. It just doesn’t come up.</p>

<p>Do the problems exist? I presume so, simply it is part of human experience. Is the “preventive factor” homeschooling itself? As I said, I doubt it - I think the preventive factor has to do with mentoring and extended age peer groups based on interest rather than chronological age. And, as noted, the data I have on the efficacy of mentoring has to do with kids in school, not homeschoolers, and with so-called at-risk ones.</p>

<p>But I don’t know for sure, which is why I am intrigued about finding out.</p>

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<p>The public school grapevine and gossip line is a lot bigger - and broader- than what homeschoolers typically experience. I mean, basically homeschoolers are choosing to restrict their family’s contacts to those that share some sort of common interests – whereas we public school parents send kids into a world where they are exposed to much more information gained via communication with others."</p>

<p>This is what I have seen with many homeschoolers on the kitsap pensisula/county.
They are trying to restrict their childs access to the rest of the area- whether that be because they don’t want authorities probing too deeply into the manner that they are raising their children- or because they worry about the “influences” of public school life- including evolution theory in the classroom and sex education and so "school " them at home.</p>

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<p>I believe Mini. I too know alot of homeschoolers, and this is a rare problem with those families. I do know a few families who homeschool and have had these problems, but it is way low in number, and they tend to be families who are most well integrated with their public schools and communities, by letting their kids “hang” around. That is really where the problems occur with teenagers. And when you send them off to highschool, there is alot of free time in there where they can “hang” around. One of the reasons we were able to avert some issues with my son is that he has a long commute and his time is so tight, that it is difficult for him to get loose. Not that he has not , as he truly wired for those sort of things, but had he gone to a local school or boarded, there is no doubt in my mind that he woud in serious trouble. Most homeschooled familes provide a very structured or limited social environment for their kids even as they become teens. They don’t roam the streets and parking lots, and if they go to a friend’s house, they stay there. </p>

<p>However, I have seen many homeschooled kids bomb out of college, unable to cope with the issues there; probably just as many as regularly schooled kids, though I have not kept count or stats. It is surprising to me when this happens since most of the homeschooled kids in the clusters I know were so promising.</p>

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<p>This has been quite interesting, but at this point it’s unlikely that the thread will be able to return to the original topic. Nunofyurbeesknees- I hope that some of the posts were helpful; please keep us updated. I’ll keep an eye out for future cc posts on the topic of practical and effective ways to deal with teenage social issues, especially drinking issues. Thanks to everyone for some excellent and heartfelt insights.</p>

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<p>Speckledegg, thanks for your input. This thread certainly has shown that this is a challenge that almost all parents face. The ideas and suggestions are extremely helpful. I’ll keep you posted on D and friends and I hope we will all continue to share in this dialogue.</p>