A BIG DEVELOPMENT - NEED ADVICE - Ds friends are drinking She's upset

Parent Cafe
41

<p>SBmom and jamimom: thanks for the positive feedback. I thought I might have ruffled some feathers with the comments about wearing clothing with beer logos. </p>

<p>This has developed into a very intriguing thread. Hearing from parents who have already been through this is helpful. Many times on this site, the topic of alcohol use is not given its due; suggestions such as “develop new friends” and “why would you want to hang out with a drinking crowd”. But in many communities, mine included, by senior year the presence of alcohol is woven into the social fabric of almost every group in the high school, including student government officers, varsity sports captains, and national merit students. Not every single kid, not every single weekend, but absolutely a factor. It’s our kid’s best friend, it’s our best friend’s kid, and yes- it’s our kid. And our kids have to navigate through this. There are a lot of weekends in the years between the start of “partying” in your child’s social circle and legality. That’s a parental grey (hair) area. The trenches. </p>

<p>I thought that kissy’s suggestion of special family dinners was excellent. Occasional formal dinners represent the lovely side of family life and are becoming extinct in our EC-heavy lives. I discussed it with my family at dinner last night; we’re going to try it next week. We need to find a night in which my senior does not need to drive himself to an activity. Ideally this family-dinner-with-wine tradition would start much earlier than senior year.</p>

<p>Emeraldkity4: You have had to make some difficult choices in raising your kids. This situation in which you confronted an angry drunk took a lot of courage. I can tell from your many posts that you are a very caring mom and would like to have a better relationship with those relatives. But some people just aren’t available for that.</p>

<p>OK- here’s a hypothetical situation. Your high schooler is out for the night with kids you like and have known forever. At curfew time, the doorbell rings. Hmmm, that’s strange. You answer it to find your kid’s two friends at the door, upset, apologetic, and sober. Your own kid is lying in the grass, very drunk and vomiting. You have never seen your kid drunk before. The situation has gone past the code-word plan. It’s your move. How do you handle it?</p>

42

<p>well first you get kid in the house- take care of them just like you would if they were sick from anything else-now is not the time to be yelling at him/her .</p>

<p>I would thank the friends- make sure they had a safe way to get home and tell them that I probably would want to talk to them later to get the story. I also - depending on how well I knew their parents- would let the parents know how I appreciated their kids helping my child.
( this does 2 things- it gives them a positive stroke to their kids and to their parenting- while also alterting them that your child got alcohol from somewhere )</p>

<p>the next day I would obviously have a talk- but I would try and listen first-and hopefully I would have already had a disciplinary tactic in mind- that was prestated before major lapses of judgement occured.
Something that has worked for us- when we haven’t covered it before- is to ask the child-what punishment/discipline do they think is appropriate. Our kids often thought of something much stronger that what we would have thought of.
But I have a feeling they are looking for some sort of line here- and it is up to us to hold it.</p>

43

<p>The suggestion given to us at parents nights is to put the kid to bed. Don’t wash them off, don’t change their clothes, don’t give them aspirin (hide it if you must). When they are still high or drunk, there is no point in talking to them. Get them in a safe place with a bucket. If they throw up in their sleep you want to be sure they don’t choke. Nothing grosser than waking up all yucky.</p>

<p>Then have the talk. Talk about judgement, disappointment, what COULD have happened. Tell them you are proud of their friends. They stepped up and did the right thing. This could have happened with some not so great friends who could have left you somewhere.</p>

<p>If its a girl, the conversation may need to move off in a different direction-date rape, did she have sex that she is aware of because if she did, then it needs to be handled, etc. Sometimes the reallity of what could have happened becomes very real. You may not get any kind of answer, but the questions make the point. The kid may not even remember what happened. I would just say, well I need you to listen now. As well, tell them seeing you like that was really scary. “You may not want to hear this, but I need to say it”</p>

<p>No yelling, because it sets the defenses up. Emeraldkity is right. Have a plan before hand. As well, the parents need to be on the same page.</p>

<p>Argghhh, parenting is SO much fun.</p>

44

<p>Good answer EK.</p>

<p>In light of this thread, I think I may have been subtly drifting towards “everyone’s gonna do it” for college and I see the wisdom from jamimom of holding the line, which I think I need to keep doing.</p>

<p>What I have tried to emphasize with D is that she is a person who knows how to love life, laugh, and have a huge amount of fun totally straight-- and if she were ever to add alcohol to her social life, I would NEVER want her to forget how to love life, laugh & have fun without it… That it is too easy to use alcohol as a social lubricant and to forget how much fun is to be had just by bringing a bold, happy attitude to whatever you are doing, by being ready to have a good time.</p>

<p>As with my approach to questions of sexuality, I am trying to get at the underlying advantage to her of being balanced and healthy… Yeah, booze can “feel good,” yeah many people will be doing it, but-- BE CAREFUL-- is easy to slide headlong into overuse of alcohol, and wake up one day realizing you’ve forgotten how to have a great time without it. Don’t add booze in a way that results in a net loss to you!!</p>

<p>I think a part of her does not want to be a “Goody Two Shoes” in college as she has been in HS. I keep telling her that nobody will know or care whether it is ginger ale or beer in her hand if she’s having a great time at a dance-- but that <strong>I care</strong> that she remain a person whose great time is internal and need not be chemically induced.</p>

<p>This is a hard one!!</p>

45

<p>CGM, we crossed, your advice is also good!</p>

46

<p>Wow… what great advice. Interestingly enough… my husband’s company is participating in a anti teen drinking program. Earlier he sent me a video of Simple Plan’s powerful new song and video. If anyone knows if it’s not a violation of copyright laws I’ll be happy to post the link. The video is extremely powerful. Shows what happens to a family when their daughter is hit by a drunk driver. Every kid needs to see it.</p>

47

<p>They video taped an “drunk driving accident” at my D highschool, and they show it to the kids. The actors are all kids from the school, and it happens right in front of the school. It was very powerful. </p>

<p>Here is a trick…whenever D or S comes home, the rule is they have to come in and hug you and kiss you goodnight no matter how late…that way you can smell em!!! </p>

<p>When my D comes home, she runs upstairs nice and loud to wake me up (if I didn’t last until midnight) and says after she hugs me “you get a long enough wiff!!” We joke about it, but she understands its just a way to connect and make sure all is well. I trust my D. My friend suggested it, so one time, I made a joke about it by smelling D like a mommy baboon. She laughed and said go ahead mom, have at it!!!</p>

48

<p>“Your own kid is lying in the grass, very drunk and vomiting. You have never seen your kid drunk before. The situation has gone past the code-word plan. It’s your move. How do you handle it?”</p>

<p>Take the kid home and watch the kid through the night to make sure s/he doesn’t die of alcohol poisoning or of aspirating her/his vomit.</p>

<p>After the kid is sober and rested start talking about the situation and imposing some consequences.</p>

49

<p>This did happen to us. Turned out he had been thrwoing up into a backpack on the way home. The driver father hadn’t noticed. The boy who brought him to the door was legless too. They were end-of-the-year FRESHMEN. Our S had recently turned 15.</p>

<p>What happened? They went to a classmate’s (small private school) party where the bf of a parent I didn’t know set up a TABLE full of HARD liquor in the basement. Older kids came to the party and added more HARD liquor. Drinking games ensued and were celebrated and voila.</p>

<p>My S was home at midnight. 14 freshman girls spent the night at that house.</p>

<p>We put him to bed. The stench in that room was unbelieveable.</p>

<p>The next day we sat him down for a long long talk but you know what? He was too young for that talk. He hadn’t been to that many parties. He had sort of approached it like the birthday parties of old. wheee! Drinks! And Games! He had no idea that he would get sick if he drank hard liquor. They say the ‘consequence’ part of the brain is the last to develop–at age 20 and I believe that.</p>

<p>He apologized profusely. Contrite, he accepted the huge list of punishments with stoicism. Then, as it was summer, he spent four weeks cleaning and painting our hitherto unpainted 1920’s basement, washing three floors of leaded glass windows, cleaning out all the gutters, etc etc. He worked like a dog.</p>

<p>By the grace of God, he didn’t show, and still doesn’t show, that burning interest in getting drunk/stoned–which I did see in peers from my childhood. The incident was a one off. After he turned 18, and was legal in our country, he did go out ‘drinking’ at the pub with his mates. It was too much in my opinion and we talked to him about it. Finally, about a year later, even that has settled down to mild social drinking.</p>

<p>Funny thing–before the party DH called the classmate’s house to talk to the ‘adult’. We did all the right things–oh wait. We didn’t ask him if he was going to be SERVING hard liquor to our boy. Duh!</p>

<p>Supervision and proper nurturing is only part of the equation. Genetics and ‘attraction’ play a massive role in substance abuse. Our kids aren’t saints but we haven’t had to struggle with addictive personalities or a natural attraction to abuse. Big hugs to all the parents who do have to struggle with those inborn traits. That cannot be easy.</p>

50

<p>DId you know they did studies, and it is known that young kids like the feeling of “drunk”- its why they spin in circles until they walk funny!!!</p>

51

<p>I spend most of my time with the homeschooling community (the non-sectarian part) and, frankly, I can’t remember the last time I’ve heard anyone running into problems like this. And it isn’t that the kids aren’t out in the community. They are - they hold down jobs, they take classes at the community college (and some, even part-time at the high school), they participate in sports, debate teams, and go over to friends homes on weekends, and most of them have many in-school friends. There are even proms. It just doesn’t come up. I’ve run in those circles for a decade; people come to me with their problems, and they know that I work in the alcohol and drug field for a living, and I meet maybe 5,000 homeschooling families a year. It just doesn’t come up. Just something to think about.</p>

<p>Both of my kids are rather straitlaced. The older one went away to college at 16, and before her 17th birthday, I took her into a wine store and helped her choose a good bottle of wine so that she could hold a wine and cheese (and fish eggs) get-together for her close friends. She had previously gone on overnights with friends (most in their early 20s) from Evergreen State College, to a hot springs, and they went skinny-dipping, but she didn’t even have a beer, no less a joint. (I offered to get her one, but she wasn’t interested.)</p>

<p>The younger one is a gymnast and concert pianist and simply has no time for such nonsense. She has a close family friend, a 45-year-old former drug addict, who destroyed much of his body in an alcohol-related motorcycle incident, and who does the “woe unto those who imbibe” routine for us, so we don’t have to bother. </p>

<p>We’ve told both kids that, in my day, I did lots of drugs, and that drug experimentation and the attempt to explore other psychological states pharmacologically is a long-regarded and accepted part of the human experience. They also know that neither my wife nor I drink (or drug) recreationally, though there is a wine bottle in the house somewhere (I think it is somewhere in the back of the fridge), and we had to buy a bottle of vodka for the older one (when she was 15) so she could make tinctures for her botanical medicine class - we still have 3/4s of the bottle, so if anyone wants it, come to our house.</p>

<p>They both get, at least 3 times a year, the “don’t get into the car with someone who has been drinking or drugging” speech. We call it “the speech”, and have made it a funny family ritual. We told them we aren’t even going to tell them not to drink or drug and drive themselves, because we know and trust that they are smarter than that. </p>

<p>Prior to this, we cared for a bunch of foster kids and, again, never ran into any drug-or-alcohol problems.</p>

<p>Much of alcoholism, drug, and tobacco addiction is physical, and genetic. In my family, before the Surgeon General’s warning, every single adult member of my family smoked. Within two months, virtually all of them quit, cold-turkey - no aids, no gum, no counseling, just quit. Statistically, I know from my work that is virtually impossible (the average person takes about 9 attempts). But there was just no genetic propensity.</p>

52

<p>So…to follow your argument mini…home-schooled kids are genetically perfect and not prone to substance abuse?</p>

<p>How wonderful for you! Med schools should look into this and conduct a scientific study.</p>

53

<p>No - sorry - I don’t think there was any connection. I think homeschoolers have hit on something regarding environment. And I’m not quite sure what it is yet, or I’d package it and sell it. But I think it is probably worth exploring as to why this is so, don’t you?</p>

<p>And genetics don’t say anything about whether a kid will drink or not, or get themselves into trouble from doing so. What they do seem to tell us about is whether such a propensity will later develop into an addictive disorder. (This, by the way, is true for college drinkers as well, with heavy drinkers not developing into alcoholics at a greater rate than moderate ones.)</p>

54

<p>I don’t really don’t want this thread to get hijacked into a debate regarding the social benefits of homeschooling vs anything else. I think as parents we have to all agree that there are quite a large number of teen agers who are drinking or thinking about drinking in every situation. I started this thread because I was hoping that this could be a place where I could get and advice, support and guidance.</p>

<p>None of us are immune to the catastrophic effects drinking and driving can have on any of us. It’s in all of our best interests to impress upon our children the dangers involved when they or their buddies get behind the wheel after having “just one little drink”. A drunk driver doesn’t care if he/she hits a homeschooler, public schooler or private schooler.</p>

55

<p>Agreed. The reason I brought it up is to see if there are ways to ease peer pressure that go beyond the usual preach’n’model stuff. And I think there may be. In other cultures, the idea that one considers one’s peers simply those of the same chronological age is usually broken around ages 12-13. (Some cultures don’t traditionally recognize anything resembling “teenage-hood”, though there may be a category for “unmarrieds”.) When all one knows (or at least most, and for most of the day) are folks of virtually exactly the same chronological age, it may not be surprising that much of what one sees is some version of "the blind leading the blind’ (and hence, they may bump into walls!) It is not a universal solution of course (I don’t know of one), but are there greater ways to involve kids (all kids!) in apprenticeships, mentoring relationships, or simply friendships that move them out of the exclusive domain of age-bound peers? Big challenge, of course, and I don’t have an easy way of doing it. But I do have data in my work on the effectiveness of more traditional mentoring relationships (Big Brother/Big Sisters, etc.) on alcohol/drug use of high-risk kids, and it is very striking indeed. So if it works for high-risk kids, why shouldn’t it work for others?</p>

56

<p>Mini- I’ll write more later. Several aspects of your post have taken me by surprise. Your older daughter sounds mature for her age, well-prepared academically (she entered college early), and comfortable interacting with other students who are perhaps five years older. Maybe it’s homeschooling, maybe she’s just a mature and together person, maybe she was raised by a professional drug/alcohol counselor and opted out of the drug/alcohol scene in your area. Could it be that no such scene exists in your town? Is this what you mean by “something to think about”? </p>

<p>And when you (her dad?) offered to fetch her a beer or a joint while she was skinny-dipping, she declined? (Good for her!) Did I misread?</p>

57

<p>We have a VERY big alcohol/drug scene in our town (this is Olympia, Washington.) LOL! I wasn’t on the skinny-dipping trip - that was with her friends - I was just surprised (it having been “Greeners” who are notorious for weed use). And no, I don’t keep cannabis around the house to give to the kids, or beer for that matter (or for me, either!) </p>

<p>I could chalk it up to an individual kid, I guess, except that I had all the foster kids as well (in a different town - a big city, (and before my professional work - and I’m not a counselor, but a state planner.) And then there is my younger one.</p>

<p>Again, I don’t know what it is, or I’d bottle it, but I do think it has something to do with finding ways to break out of age-bound peer groups. Both my kids have done that, but in very different ways. But I have seen it so commonly among my homeschooling friends that I wonder if that’s what’s going on. (Wonder, mind you - no conclusions.) I DON’T think it is because of the superiority of homeschooling per se, so let’s not go there (I don’t even think homeschoolers’ parenting skills are necessarily better), except as it offers an invitation (actually a necessity) to go beyond the chronological peer group. And I recognize fully how difficult that can be for kids in school, who are essentially forced to spend most of their time associating with kids of virtually the same age, so I don’t have any easy solution either.</p>

<p>But I do think the mentoring data is very provocative.</p>

58

<p>Mini, I find something of a disconnect between the observation that the problem of teenage drinking “never comes up” in your homeschooling circles, and the fact that you would suggest/allow a 17 year old to hold a wine-and-cheese party. I mean, there is no way to get around it: you were holding a party where you were planning to serve wine to her underage friends.</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong - I’m not trying to attack you. My attitude is “to each his own” … AND in our home, on the occasions that we serve wine with meals, we began serving our teens as soon as they expressed a desire to have the wine - probably at around age 16 or 17. My d. spent 5 months last year, at age 16, living with host families in a part of the world where no one would bat an eye at a 16 year old drinking, and her social life included going out late at night to clubs where alcohol was served. So you aren’t shocking me … but on the other hand, for me there is a big difference between what we do at home with our own kids and parties & serving to others.</p>

<p>It seems to me that the subject may not “come up” in your circles because it is simply more accepted for teens to be drinking alcohol or smoking a joint – your post certainly expresses that view about your own kid. So if some 16 year old overdoes it… maybe in your circles its not something that the parents would make a big deal about. </p>

<p>I don’t mean to express a judgment one way or another - just pointing out that if you and your friends have a casual, accepting attitude, then there is no particular reason for discussion when there is an occasional lapse. I will note that with your attitude, it is more likely that the teens will be drinking in settings where adults are around and supervising (like the wine and cheese party) - which may make it somewhat less likely that they will over-indulge, as presumeably at your house you would let a kid know when you think she’s had enough.</p>

59

<p>Mini:</p>

<p>Our experience sounds very much like yours. It wasn’t homeschooling, but rather a public high school where there was quite a bit of drinking, drug use, and a nationally publicized hazing incident. I chalk our positive experience up to blind luck, more than anything else. </p>

<p>We even had the same “speech”, also about three times a year accompanied by a standing offer to come pick her up anytime anyplace.</p>

60

<p>mini, </p>

<p>Maybe other aspects of homeschooling come into play besides peer-group ages. Maybe there is also less conformity and more supervision? And (particularly with un-schoolers) more self-determination, directedness, creativity, passion? Less stress?</p>

<p>I think this is an interesting question to look into.</p>