A Hug, A Slap in the Face, or A Cup of Coffee to Smell

Parent Cafe
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<p>Hey, just trying to be helpful–I don’t get royalties or anything. :slight_smile: Some posters seemed to dismiss the book without having read it. If someone else has read it they could comment on it. The book is specifically about the mother/son relationship, and not just about “letting go.” The relationship and the repercussions of the quality of the relationship continue long after a son has moved out of the house, no?</p>

<p>I also personally am not a big believer in offering advice of the kind the OP is looking for over the internet, which is why I have urged the OP to read the book for herself and draw her own conclusions, take what she can from it, and discard the rest.</p>

<p>I would also recommend highly <em>Intimate Worlds: How Families Thrive and Why They Fail</em> by Maggie Scarf.</p>

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<p>HH, I just ordered the book for my wife. She was raised with one sister, and we have 2 sons, so she has no clue (about certain things). She keeps saying things like, “When I was xxx, I never did xxx…” </p>

<p>And Sage, I think Cheers did hit most of the high points. Think of the alternative! No gf, son home, pouty all the time… or worse than pouty - abusive, flunking out. I think all things considered, you are (all) doing pretty well.</p>

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<p>Sage, been thinking about you. How did the rest of break go?</p>

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<p>this is going to be a strange analogy, but its what I got:</p>

<p>I was at the park the other day, this man’s pet shih tzu was stuck on the other side of a fence…the guy was yelling at the dog to come to him…now, if I were that dog, would I run to someone who was yelling at me, telling me I was a bad girl, and the like</p>

<p>when I finally was able to coax the dog out, he told her she was a bad doggie…I "EXPLAINED"to hiim that he needed to embrace his little girl and not be so angry…I think he got it</p>

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<p>Sage, here’s another virtual hug for you. I honestly don’t see anything wrong, or unusual, with the scenario you’ve painted. :slight_smile: It happens, with slight variations, in every household that has kids. As they grow older, and especially as they are away at college, your relationship with them will evolve and change. There’s nothing wrong with that. It may be difficult at times but the worst thing you can do is to attempt to stop that evolution. From all accounts, you have raised a wonderful son who is doing well at school and who is in a relationship with a wonderful girl who makes him happy. He’s interested in taking summer classes (good sign) and working (another good sign) and is planning ahead (excellent sign!). </p>

<p>My youngest of 4 will be finishing h/s soon so I’ve been through this change in relationship vis a vis college kids three times already. It is absolutely normal for a kid to spend a summer or two working/living away from home while in college. Many kids do it. The fact that he’ll do it while having the ability to live at his girlfriend’s parents’ home is a bonus because while taking classes and working, presumably he’ll be able to save some money by living there. </p>

<p>I agree that you should put a positive spin on this and also agree that if you do that, you should then request a visit, either at the beginning or end of summer. That’s not too much to ask. Don’t make this a competition between his love for you and his relationship with his girlfriend. Girlfriends (and wives) always win, and if by some slim chance, she ends up being his wife, you don’t want that strained relationship with her forever. Reading books is great but, as was said above, your son is ‘raised’ and there’s not a lot you can do now to change the kid he is, nor would you probably want to, since it sounds like you’ve done a good job already. Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>Sage, my daughter spent this past summer at her boyfriend’s parent’s home in another city. She worked, saved some money and was able to examine their relationship in a different light. After the summer, they decided that they had different goals and broke up. They are still friends and talk frequently and who knows, at a different time may get back together–but even though we missed her, I think the summer was good for her. One of my boys and I went up for a visit during the summer and she came home for a quick visit before school restarted. If we had told her “no”, I think she would have resented it and she would have missed out on some growing up.</p>

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<p>I, for one, am going to get both the books recommended by Hereshoping…I need all the help I can get!
Sage, hugs and prayers to you during this difficult time!</p>

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<p>There are several issues here that I would address. It is not polite to stay in bed with someone that late, and then take “naps”. Something that is not just making you uncomfortable but does not show good manners in other settings, like possilby his girlfriend’s house. Unless there is a good reason to be in bed long after everyone is awake (such as late night out which should be occaisional) there is some etiquette involved here (yeah, I know they had a very good reason). As a parent, since this issue of being a guest at someone’s home has arisen, you should bring up behaviour that is not considered appropriate by many people. I don’t permit unmarrieds to sleep together in my home, so this issue has not come up at all, as even my middleaged brother who was single for a long time observed this rule with his girlfriends and everyone here knows it. What others do in their homes is not my business, but you may want to share with your son, that your home may be more liberal than other households, and also things that you did not like when he and his girlfriend were here. Though adult in many ways, children still often need reminders or they will take things too far, and then it becomes difficult to get them to toe your line, and being your home, you have the right to draw that line, just as his girlfriend’s parents have the the right to draw theirs. I am saying this because I have heard stories of appalling behavior from boy/girlfriends who were guests at someone’s home, as they felt their house rules were their rights, and were insolent or sullen when told otherwise as guests. I think you owe it to your son as a parent to remind him of manners and what being a good guest entails and some things that occurred during his stay that showed lack of consideration. </p>

<p>My suggestion to you is to try to get him to take those summer courses up front if he is going to go there for the entire time. And try to find short lasting courses, not the ones that span for 8 weeks or more if at all possible. I say this, because at that age, a lot of things can happen, and you want to minimize the risk that a breakdown of the relationship occurs in the middle of courses that have been paid for and started. Having two boys over 18 who have had more girlfriends than I can count, I see many a hot and heavy relationship end abruptly. Not just in my kids, but in others as well. Do give him an easy out if things do not work out there, without making it look like you are considering that possibility. Let him know that you like him at home, and if 3 months seems long, he is welcome to come back. You don’t want foolish pride putting him in a dangerous situation if he feels he cannot live there for any reason. Give him an out; he is still young; this is not marriage. </p>

<p>I would be uneasy about the situation for a number of reasons, but it serves no purpose to list them, as I think you have the same feelings. It’s just that you are not going to win on this one. As Alwaysamom says “girlfriends (and wives) always win”. (I guess with all those girls you would know that , Alwaysamom). But you can put in some safeguards and some conditions, as long as they are not too ornerous, and you should do so before things get too far. It’s harder to halt or manage behaviour the longer you permit it to occur. It is only fair to let your son know what you do not want happening, particularly in your house, under your nose, and in doing this you help in understand that other homes have rules too, and it may increase the chances that he is a better houseguest.</p>

<p>I have seen a number of these arrangements and sometimes they lead to permanent relationships, sometimes they blow up quickly,and every degree in between. Good luck to you, him and the young woman.</p>

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<p>My point wasn’t to clear, I guess I was trying to say, that when they do come to you, have a smile and be glad, as no one wants to go to someone they think is mad at them</p>

<p>I was trying to share that being sad, and a bit disappointed can create an environment the isn’t as welcoming as we would like</p>

<p>I guess the trick is to sound enthusiastic about our childs/young adults plans while knowing we are losing them to the world and to other people</p>

<p>We need to have our homes and hearts, while maybe a bit raw, ready to deal with the changes that are inevitable</p>

<p>Both my Ds will be going to colleges on the far coast…I have been trying to mentally prepare myself for that time…my mom has warned me that they may meet someone there and not come home for Christmas one year, may end up working there, etc.</p>

<p>I just remember that I moved away to another state when I was 21, my H left Ireland when he was 21, and saw his mom maybe once a year, if he was lucky</p>

<p>Our connections were still strong and yours can be too</p>

<p>My original point was you need to seem happy to see son and gf when they visit, and even if you don’t agree with their plans, so long as they are moving in a good direction, maybe not your choice, but at least he will be taking classes etc</p>

<p>I am anticipating my D doing study abroad, internning etc on the east coast during summers…guess thinking about the extreme possibilites will make whatever time I do have with them great</p>

<p>it is hard to get used to the changes and letting go, just remember to have open arms and a smile when you do get to have them so they will want to return</p>

<p>I can feel the hurt in your posts sage, and I can imagine how it feels…but just remember, you have raised a wonderful son who is not doing anything really bad, he is still in school, is doing well enough and is inhis first really serious relationship, be glad for that…some kids go in some majorlly different directions in college, drop out, do drugs, whatever…</p>

<p>so take pride in what he has done, cross your fingers and be there for him</p>

<p>take this time to fill your life with other things…I for one plan on visiting the cities my Ds are in school at…whether they can spend uber amounts of time with me or not, just making the connection will have to be enough sometimes</p>

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<p>My son was horrible when he was 18, I didn’t want him around much. We got through it after we spent a week scuba-diving together. It was great to be in a situation where we DID something together instead of him just hanging around. Since then I try to find other things for us to DO together and it’s worked very well. I sent him skiing with his dad for a week and that went well, too. </p>

<p>I’d start with a one-day excursion though if such things are new to you, and make it something <em>he</em> enjoys, even if it’s an all-day marathon at the paint-ball facility. It really helps if they know more than you do about it, too, because that chance to be the teacher instead of the kid makes a huge difference. (My son is a much better diver than I am, and loves to make fun of how much I need him when we dive together. He carries stuff, helps me with equipment. Heaven knows how I manage when I go by myself… which I do.)</p>

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<p>cpt, you’ve raised an excellent point about the possibility of the demise of this relationship. If this is the boy’s first real girlfriend, chances are very good that it won’t be a lasting one, and may even be over by summer. As for the ‘girls always win’ issue, I think that it’s true in the vast majority of cases, and it’s not just because I have 4Ds. I’ve always thought that it’s a positive to develop a good ‘sharing’ relationship with the boys that my Ds have dated, and I have always encouraged my Ds to do the same with those boys’ parents (particularly their mothers). Boys, and later, men, more often than not, seem to have greater difficulty doing this than girls, and women, do. I’m not sure why, and I often wish that it weren’t the case. Every female friend and family member who are my age, or in the vicinity of it, are the ones who maintain the communication necessary in a good in-law relationship which may include things like remembering important dates and sending cards, buying gifts, regular phone calls or emails, dinner invitations, planning trips to visit, etc. Or, at the very least, they are the ones who have to remind the husbands to do these things.</p>

<p>Of course, there are some (although I haven’t met many!) men who do these things without prompting, who remember when all extended family members’ birthdays are, who have planned enough to have cards to send in time to reach for said special occasions, who plan family reunions, who say “hey, let’s have so-and-so over for dinner on Sunday” and then arrange it. They are, from my experience, few and far between. :slight_smile: Now this may very well indeed be because we women choose to ‘take over’ that responsibility but the fact remains that in many families, the relationship is closer with the wife’s extended family than the husband’s as a result. That old saying about a daughter being a daughter for the rest of her life has some truth to it.</p>

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<p>Sage - at the risk of sounding rude, you sound way too needy with your son- and that is a big turnoff to kids. I also hear manipulation and “guilting” him going on; another big turnoff. It sounds a lot like “I gave him everything he wanted, and now he shuns me. He owes me for all I’ve done for him. Why does he turn away from me.” Please, please, please - get some therapy for yourself, so that you can deal with these issues, and find some peace, and maybe reach a new understanding and an adult relationship with your son. You need the strength to live your own life, and let him move on with his. Again, I’m not meaning to be harsh or rude, but it just doesn’t sound like you are coming from a healthy place emotionally.</p>

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<p>anxiousmom, you made some points i was trying to make with my analogy…who wants to run to someone who is angry at them all the time…</p>

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<p>Thanks for all your replies; they’re appreciated :)</p>

<p>DS and I are working on the transition. He has never had the slightest inclination to be independent or self-directed. I’ve tried over many years to nurture that in him. I’m delighted he has such a wonderful GF; I have no idea where some posters have gotten the impression that I’m not. Also, I’m not Marie Barrone…no guilt trips or anger towards him here…and no manipulation, in fact counselors have indicated that I’ve done a remarkably good job.</p>

<p>I always welcome DS and/or GF with open arms, a smile, and lots of food. I’m not into competition either…not my style. I’ve only sought fairness and respect amidst the turmoil of transitioning. DS and I have always had an extremely close bond; it served us well for years; now, we’re both suffering from the separation…but now we seem to be talking better and feeling less threatened by the separation. How silly…of course, I want him to be a separate individual and to have a life (as I redefine mine), but we (he and I) anticipate closeness (defined however you want it) for the rest of our days.</p>

<p>CGM, I’m not the screaming dog owner…and I’m a lot smarter than you give me credit for being.</p>

<p>Anxiousmom, you have totally misread me…I am none of those things…just enormously sad to see my beloved son actually grow up (it happens so fast) and not terribly skilled (despite lots of reading) at navigating these changing waters.</p>

<p>I brought my confusion and sadness to the board, because I thought it to be a safe place. DS and I have been in counseling for a variety of issues (all proactive, none lethal) for quite some time, but what I was looking for was parental input…not shoot-from-the-hip-diagnostics of my mental state. While most of the posts I believe were thoughtful, some were outright nasty…and I resign my membership from CC in response.</p>

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<p>Aww, Sage :frowning: Don’t take it like that! The intent was not to be nasty, but to help. You do sound confused and sad - and what you got was parental input. One of the things about a message board and messages is that they are just words - and we, as readers, have to try to feel out the message from amongst the words, lacking the clues that normal spoken conversation and body language add to the message. Maybe I got it wrong… and maybe I got it a little wrong, and maybe I got it all wrong - I was just addressing what I was reading in your message. I hope you keep posting and the relationship with your son improves. :)</p>

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<p>If you read my second post, I was trying to be clearer as I realized I didn’t make the point I was trying to make…I was not equating anyone with a screaming dog owner, but trying to get across the point that while or kids may not be doing exactly as we woul like, so long as they are productive, healthy, and generaly kind people, we shouldn’t be mad if we don’t get all we want from them.</p>

<p>My apologiizes and I did try and clarify what I meant.</p>

<p>I did agree with anxiousmom that sometimes we have to look at our own stuff…we can’t change others, just our reaction to them, and if you are having a rough time with the seperation, there is nothing wrong with talking to someone about it, nothing at all…</p>

<p>after depended on each other for 18 years, there is some stuff that gets left unresolved…jsut think of it this way, your Son is becoming the man you want him to be, he is not perfect at it yet, and to some degree is switching his loyalties from mom to gf, and that is as it should be, not that it is easy, not that is painless, but it is what it is</p>

<p>my points are to just be glad for what you do have, and if you have to fake it…put on the smile, find ways to do stuff that you both like, and you will grow to get used to the emptynest thing</p>

<p>As I said, i am building up slowly to the day when both D are on the other coast, realizing that one or both may stay there for a length of time</p>

<p>What can I do? not much, just be there when they need me, and know that so long as they are doing what they love, I will just have to be grateful they will be young adults who are going to be magnificent members of society</p>

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<p>Sage, I was sympathetic to your plight. But if your reaction to criticism is to refuse to listen, I begin to understand why your son might want to spend the summer on the other coast.</p>

<p>Consider the possibility that you may BOTH have some growing up to do.</p>

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<p>At least by recommending books one avoids the high-hat tone which is unfortunately so often taken in well-meaning advice posts.</p>

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<p>when I read the title of this thread, I was confused, was it a slap, hug or coffee for the mom or the son</p>

<p>high-hat tone- not really, but some realistic responses to a poster who is having some issues with her son, who on the face of it, doesn’t appear to feel she has any hand in the problems, she places total blame elsewhere, when it fact, it is a mutual problem</p>

<p>when I have an arguement with my mom, it is never "mine’ nor “her” fault soley, it is both- one of us being unclear, one expecting too much, one snapping, one pouting, one being obtuse, one being too sensitive…</p>

<p>and until a person can admit that it is possible that their own behaviour can cause at least part of the problems in a relationship, then nothing will ever change</p>

<p>even with having too many expectations and holding to how the relationships were in the past</p>

<p>children grow up, and change, and when they don’t need us as much, sure its hard, but isn’t that the goal?</p>

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<p>I made it clear from the outset (of this thread and my life on this board) that our family was in counseling for quite some time. Does that sound like I don’t listen or care to share my portion of the responsibility for what goes on? I don’t think so.</p>

<p>I’m after advice, not condemnation…and if you really read the words of several of the posters, it’s condemnation and generalizations that they’re handing out. My DS loves me and lately is showing it more and more…he’s just been confused about his new independence and I about what role to play in all of this. I looked to the board for words of experience. Maybe I love my son too much, but that’s what he has always loved about me and his friends too. I’m the neighborhood nice lady who always was there for all the kids all the time. I don’t expect pay back; I just don’t always understand the recent spate of tirades because they are so foreign to me.</p>

<p>And…slap in the face, coffee, or hug was an allusion to how we all should react to what’s going on…MG, not that I want DS blamed or me for that matter.</p>

<p>Take words at face value, and please try not to read too much into them. Those of you who know me and know who I really am (other than my pseudonym) know that I’ve been a very very very hands-on parent for some very large and legitimate reasons…thus the transition is much harder for DS and me than it might be for others. For heaven’s sake lighten up. If my orginal and subsequent posts were carefully read, I believe I have more than demonstrated the desire to engage in a dialogue…but all I was looking for was a sharing of experiences. I have more than eloquently expressed my desire and goal of DS to grow up independent, strong, and happy. Anyone who missed that needs to reread the posts. Adios.</p>