A question for all the dads out there from a mom

Parent Cafe
1

Do I have a right to suggest how my husband parents?

My husband is the child of immigrants who came to America with a 3rd grade education, worked tirelessly, and sent two kids to HYP. Multiple jobs to pay for private school. Hiring tutors. Etc. They way H tells it, he barely saw his father (who worked in the grueling restaurant business). This is a critical piece of the puzzle.

H chose a career in academia. Lots of travel, working weekends, late nights (writing papers, writing grants).

As I’ve posted before, we have a 7yo son on the autistic spectrum (fits the typical Asperger’s profile) and a typically developing 5yo son. I’ve burned myself into a pile of char working FT while raising these two boys. My mother’s death in May (lifelong alcoholism) tipped me over the edge into total emotional burnout (I’m in therapy).

And then a bright spot. He got tenure.

We’re in this really, really delicate point in our family life.

H has agreed to cut back the travel, weekend work and late nights. And he has. The problem: his approach to parenting is more like grandparenting. “Let’s to to the movies!” “Let’s go out to eat!” Even if we go to a museum he really wants to do entertainment-activities (e.g. butterfly garden) and does not read things in the exhibits to the kids or, frankly, engage the kids. He says things, like, “Do you want to see what is in the next room?” They are bright, curious kids.

H has never:

  • taken the boys to the park to teach them to throw a ball (we live across the street from a park),
  • taught the boys to ride a bike or swim,
  • talked to them about his life, childhood or work (without my prompting).

So my questions:

  • Is it unfair of me to want H to do more 'dad' stuff (or frankly 'good parenting' stuff) with our sons -- or is this 'micromanaging'?
  • H is very sensitive about his parenting. He believes that a child's education is largely the responsibility of the school. I can see where he is coming from (given his own upbringing) but I completely disagree! S1 is in a great school but I work very, very hard to support him. And what about throwing a ball? Riding a bike? Swimming? Parenting is not all ice cream and butterflies.

My dad (who taught me to ride a bike, throw and kick a ball, cast, catch and release a fish, play chess, camp, etc) is taking the kids after T-day so this weekend we have lots of time talk.

But I’m also sad in the sense that it is lonely to parent alone, dammit! One recurring argument we get into is that his job is more stressful than mine so I can’t compare the parenting game we bring to the table. He is (naturally) more tired, less energetic, less inspired. I don’t even know how to reply to this. Why does work get the best of you and we get what’s left over?

And then I think… maybe he doesn’t really want to be around us. Who would choose to be around a cranky wife, a prickly 7yo and bouncy 5yo when one is at the top of their professional game? Then I feel like our life devolves into unofficial joint custody where responsibilities and duties have to be spelled out contractually. But that might be better than what we have now.

Thanks for any advice.

2

You need to be the parent who plays ball and goes fishing, because you have that skill set. H can be the one to take them to the zoo, the movies, etc. Better yet, let him take them those places while you stay home and get a nap. Seriously. The kids do not need to have every label in the museum read to them. If they really want to know about the exhibits, they will learn to ask.

3

I think it’s fair to discuss anything, and you should talk about things that bother you. But everybody has different ideas about parenting, and you should try to respect that. Maybe your kids won’t remember Dad teaching them to swim, but they will remember that day Dad took them to the movies. So long as he’s spending time with the kids, I don’t think it should be a source of contention that his idea of quality activities differ from yours. And absolutely as happymom said above, feel free to stay home and nap while H is off with the kids.

You can nudge things along in your preferred direction if your husband is willing, such as suggesting they go to the park and throw a ball when the weather is nice out. Things like that might just not occur to your H, but as long as he’s willing and you’re not overly pushy, then you can look for those opportunities. Buy the kids those soccerballs and baseballs and kites and model rockets for Christmas, then send them off to the park with Dad to try them out.

I will say that my way of interacting and teaching my D after a movie would be to talk about it. Things along the line of, “why did that character do that, and what would you have done instead?” Discussion to encourage thinking about motivations, choices, thinking critically, etc, but at a gentle kid’s level and in a fun way. You can encourage those types of discussions after your H does one of his entertainment activities.

Don’t kill yourself trying to be your notion of both mom and dad. Do what you can and what you think is best, but kids are resilient and your boys will be just fine. This is assuming your S with Asperger’s is getting the support and help he needs, of course.

4

Do you also have a student in college or in HS? Just wondering how you ended up on a college forum…

In any case, my H’s parents did not finish HS. They escaped the segregated deep south the minute they could and moved to the NW. Both worked multiple service jobs to keep the family clothed and fed. His father dropped dead when he was 6, mother died 2 weeks after he graduated HS. They did not know how to ride a bike or swim, neither does H. He can throw a ball, though. He has some 12 or even 14-hour days. So I see a lot of similarities to your life.

For your H growing up, his parents were in survival mode, much like my late in-laws. There wasn’t time to play ball, or ride bikes or catch a game with the kiddies. My H grew to love a lovely park near his home, but he went when that was the park his dad was working at as a groundskeeper.

My H sees child-rearing very differently than I do, as I grew up in a comfortable home with a pool and yearly vacations, a new bike every few years and so on. For him these things were either unobtainable or just not necessary. His parents did try to find fun things with the kids, and they all have good memories of doing family things together. That doesn’t make my experience better than his, or his less than mine though,

There is no reason a 5 and 7 yo can’t just have fun at a museum. The point is that they’re GOING, enjoying time with their mom and dad, so making memories that help And there is nothing wrong with a butterfly exhibit or going to the movies. The kids are 5 and 7. They’re SUPPOSED to have fun. Your H is probably happy to be able to do things with his kids that his parents could not. I know that mine is.

I am, like you, more the director of the way things go with education regarding our D. I’m the one overseeing the college apps, and keeping track of her activities and where she should be when. But that doesn’t mean for a second that H cares less. On the contrary, he is relying on me to do what he feels I am better at doing. And he works long hours and at a stressful job because his parent modeled that for him, as your H’s did for him.

You’re actually NOT parenting alone, you’re each doing different parts of the job. Your kids are getting to see what each of you enjoy and can do-where is there a rule saying that BOTH parents must to everything all the time for all kids in the same way? H and my D is actually MY 3rd, and I can tell you, each kid is different and the division of labor is different each time.

It almost sounds like you feel that you are a better parent. That’s a dangerous trap to fall into. If your kids are happy, healthy and well-cared for, then you’re both doing a good job. If your H went to HYP, he knows what it takes, that it’s possible WITHOUT reading all the labels in the museum. Try to see things from his lens and maybe you’ll be less stressed.

H and I don’t always agree, but I learned early on that if I trusted him, that he had much to offer our daughter, even if it wasn’t what I thought was the “most important”.

5

@happymomof1 Respectfully disagree. I do think at their age they benefit from focused attention and nurturing and, well, in-the-trenches parenting. Especially with S1 we have serious work to do. It is not pretty or fun but it is our duty. I hate having to constantly beg H for more parenting effort. He behavior feels like emotional abandonment.

6

@anomander and @sseamom S1 If we had two S2s I would agree. But the roll of the genetic dice was such that we got S1. The amount of parenting work S2 requires is about a tenth of what S1 needs. I could parent two S2s with my eyes closed. Parenting an Aspie is relentless hard work and there is a lot of judging that you have to just suck up. It just doesn’t feel right or even sustainable for me to do all of the ‘hard’ parenting so H can do pizza movie night because he has “different ideas” about what parenting entails. Thank you both for your thoughtful replies, and I’m sorry if I sound hopelessly bitter.

7

I think I did very little of these when my child was growing up. I did teach my son to ride the bike because my wife did not know how. Basically, I only did things which my wife really did not know. Since I am better at “school’s stuff”, I did more in this area (and computer setup stuff also because my wife does not like to pick up that kind of stuff either.)

But overall speaking, I did not do much “daddy” stuff with my child when he was growing up. I think my own parents did not do this with me when I was a child also. Maybe “behavior inheritance”?

Naturally, my child has always been closer to my wife than me. She was always at home with him and I was always “out” at work (especially when I was younger.) It is often the case that if I need to pass something to my child (like giving him some “extra academic work”), the “success rate” would be much higher if I gave the learning materials to my wife and she handed over to him. Sometimes it is almost like my wife is often the “middleman” (maybe middlewoman?) between me and my son.

At one time, I had a business trip (to overseas) for quite a long time when my child was slightly less than one year old (I think). When I came back home after about 2 months, he stared at me for some time, dropped the pacifier and started to cry – likely thought I was a stranger who “invaded” the home.

My wife occasionally “complained” but I think she just gets used to it. I could never be as good as her in parenting skills but it does not mean I do not care for my son (at least I think so but I am not sure whether my son thinks so though.)

I do not have any good advice. I myself could use some good advices here. LOL.

8

@Aspiration … “I hate having to constantly beg H for more parenting effort. He behavior feels like emotional abandonment.”

Trust your feelings. You say you are working full time too yet he says his job is more stressful and he has tenure? It sounds like he’s more than a little dismissive. I think the two of you should get some counseling.

He’s probably trying to avoid being home due to a mixture of disappointment over your son’s autism and the fact that young kids can be exhausting. Some adults are simply not comfortable around children. As someone up thread mentioned his family was in survival mode when he was growing up and he probably can’t recall spending much time with his parents.

But this feels to me like him not caring about what you need.

9

I have read some of your other threads and as you say above, you have worked yourself to a char working full time and parenting one intense special needs child and one less needy but still very young brother. I wonder two things…

Is this marriage at risk? There may be strong feelings of emotional disconnect on both sides. You each have needs, different needs in the relationship, and the parenting stress is exacerbating this divide in your ability to work together for your kids, let alone function as a romantic couple.

Could cultural differences be further exacerbating this division? Does your husband come from a culture that has a higher stigma for mental handicaps? If so, constantly having to deal with your older son’s therapies may be extra hard for your husband to accept. Perhaps he does the super fun Dad activities approach because he gets the happier less irritated son when he does that.

It would be ideal if addressing some of your couple and family needs could be part of at least one of the therapies that you are already involved in.

10

I was the one who did the “let’s schlep to the museum and learn all about xyz.” I probably ruined some great music for them because I tried to turn certain songs into a teaching moment (“what does this abstract lyric tell us about …”). You know something? I love learning, all of us in our little family are elite school grads, and the things that matter most aren’t the facts we learned at the museum, but just the simple memories of baking cookies together, playing in the leaves or the mud, watching a favorite tv show together, silly in-jokes, etc.

I’m not sure what’s wrong with your husband saying “let’s go out to eat” or “let’s go to the movies” or why that triggers you so.

It feels like you may have an academic agenda that is just too much for your children’s ages and your son’s diagnosis? It also feels that you have ingrained gender expectations - why can’t you go toss the ball or teach them to swim?

11

Dad herer:

@Aspieration , it seems from your responses here that you are not looking for advice, but rather justification for your viewpoint and ways to change your husband to your way of thinking. I agree with the others that your marriage may be in jeopardy if you continue along this path.

I don’t have an "“aspie” child, so can’t speak to that, but my wife and I each parented to our own strengths. Until high school activities, we had family dinners at least four times/week, which IMO was most important. When my kids were your sons’ ages, I typically took them out for a full day each weekend to give my wife a break or to do household things. We did those “fun” things and I used to joke that someone looking on may be thinking I was a divorced dad with weekend custody. However, I loved the chance to spend time with just my daughters. I tried to expose them to some things I liked to do, but it was always all about them. The significant thing was not what we did, but just spending time with them.

12

I’m a mom, not a dad. To be honest your husband is present and has made adjustments to accommodate your family. That’s huge. I see your point but your kids are still very young. Let your husband do the “fun” stuff with them now and build a relationship, so later they will go to him for some heavy lifting.

H probably did more of the “fun” stuff but later he also did most of the tutoring and explaining schoolwork. It also depends on how you view things. I’m quite happy H took the kids to the movies - that isn’t my thing.

I’m sure parenting an Aspire is hard but unfortunately you listed quite ordinary examples. Are you saying the activities may be the same but the way you approach the lessons/activities is different? As for judging, well, everyone gets that, especially if the parent or child is outside the mainstream. I think plenty of parents here can attest to that.

Why can’t everyone go to the park and learn how to toss a ball? I think H and I took turns with the bike lessons (my kids took more than one afternoon to learn) and again, it was a family thing rather than a parent thing. Use that extra time your husband now has to do things as a family, not just have him take on specific tasks.

As for talking about his childhood, that’s personal and I think best left to its own timing. There may be reasons. I never really knew my parents’ childhood. I realized when I was older, they grew up during a war and things were ugly - not something you tell a 5, 7 or even 10 year old. I learned more when I was college aged.

I think this parenting and emotional disconnect between you and your husband is another topic for therapy/counseling.

13

Reading everything. Everything is thoughtful. Thank you. I’m digesting…

14

i think you have every right to be annoyed. You also have a paid job, and are doing the heavy-duty parenting while he is not, he is playing grandpa…just as you said. You know, my husband did some of that…and many other friends husbands, too. I think for your sanity and marriage you are going to have to change your way of thinking and things may change as they get older, it did for me.

Many men don’t really enjoy those earlier years as much as women. They see us as better at it in some instances, and others they are just being selfish and lazy and letting you do the tough stuff. Sorry to offend any Dads out there, but I have a wonderful husband and he did that in the early years.m I was resentful many times. I was the parent, he was the co- parent.

I let those feeling go, vented with like minded friends, and found that in time he came around tobe a fully involved father as they became older. He started teaching the things he liked to do. And wait until they sart to get mouthy with him…then you will be United like never before. Many fathers do become more engaged as the kids age…so don’t fret. You know, I think it’s good he wants to take them to the movie. But I know what you are wanting is some non fun help. I think he has mad some concessions.

You’ll be waiting forever if you expect him to volunteer. Just ask him nicely to do something else you would like. B courteous, not snappy about it. Things will most likely change as the kids change. He sounds like a decent man, and quite normal.

15

“I hate having to constantly beg H for more parenting effort. He behavior feels like emotional abandonment.”

You described that he comes home and wants to take the kids out to eat or go to the movies. That feels like parenting effort and engagement. even if you would rather it be more “intellectual” in nature. Emotional abandonment would be - he greets the kids perfunctorily, snaps at them for minor things, and then goes to his man-cave, turns on the TV, shuts everyone else out, doesn’t engage if you want to do something as a family, etc.

I think you may want to define what you call emotional abandonment and then with your therapist take a good look at it. I have abandonment issues – indeed, a whole subscription :slight_smile:
Good luck to you and your family.

16

I don’t think it’s a good idea to tell your partner how to parent. It sets you up as the expert, which may offend your husband since you’re not a professional – you’re just another parent.

When our son was about 4, his toddler sister – who was very active and cranky at the time – gave up her naps. This meant that I could no longer read to our son. It was impossible to do it while the toddler was awake because she interfered too much – and suddenly, she was always awake. Eventually, I realized that nobody had read to the older child in a month!

So I asked my husband, who made a point of spending some time with our son every evening, to spend some of that time reading to him. My husband was very angry and upset. He said that he had limited time with his children and that I shouldn’t dictate what he did with that time.

He had a point. But we still had a problem. Reading to young children is important, and nobody was reading to our son.

In retrospect, it would have been better if I had asked my husband for ideas on how to solve the problem. He probably would have suggested that he should take the younger child occasionally, giving me some one-on-one time with the older one, during which we could look at books. It turns out that the reason why my husband refused to read to our son is that he has great difficulty reading aloud. He stumbles over the words. (I would never have guessed this. The man has a Ph.D.)

Maybe you could do what I failed to do – ask your husband for advice. The solution to some of the problems you raise may not be “Dad will do it.” But he might be able to help think of other options. For example, you say that your husband hasn’t taught the boys to swim. Maybe he doesn’t feel confident enough in his swimming skills to take on this responsibility. But could there be another solution? Could they take swimming lessons at the local pool, for example? Or could he supervise one child while you work on swimming skills with the other?

17

" It just doesn’t feel right or even sustainable for me to do all of the ‘hard’ parenting so H can do pizza movie night because he has “different ideas” about what parenting entails."

I think the point some of us are trying to make is that parenting entails both the “hard stuff” and the educational stuff, AND pizza-and-a-movie-night.

18

@mcat2 @OspreyCV22 @NorthernMom61 @audiophile @SlackerMomMD @conmama @Pizzagirl – thank you for the thoughtful comments. I hear you. @Marian Your idea of articulating the problem not dictating the solution is completely brilliant. I’m smacking my head as to why didn’t see it myself… one of the hats I have worn professionally is managing a team of software developers. You have described what we in software development (agile method) call the “user story.” And the whole agile method is actually well-suited to family life! Seriously! This is a great idea and indeed we (collectively) are not the first to make the connection. (There is a TED talk on ‘agile parenting’!)

H is a baseball geek In a way this one could also think of this as a ‘moneyball’ approach to parenting. How can we unpack what winning “means” to our family (a kid who can read, a kid who can de-escalate conflict, a kid who can make a new friend) and what currently-lacking skills do we need to acquire for a “family win”? It also reminds me of Ross Greene’s collaborative problem solving approach to challenging kids. The idea of kids with issues is thrown into negative relief and viewed as ‘kids with skill gaps.’ As a parent, you take an inventory of problems, prioritize them, you identify the high priority problems and (one at a time) you invite the kid to suggest ways to tackle them. Underneath this approach is relentless skill-building.

OK. We’re going to have a productive weekend. This really changes how I’m framing life.

Thanks for the group therapy. You guys can send me your bill…!

19

I can feel the frustration in your words.It is impossible to understand your situation without having a child with similar issues.Unfortunately, my nephew, a teenager , too has same problem and watching my sister struggle with helping him do the most basic of tasks is heart breaking. As a father, most of us enjoy doing the things that we like or that we excel and tend to try and stay away from those that we are not accomplishred or do not enjoy.I love sports, played in high school and college so I always tossed some type of ball, swam and coached all four of my childrens teams but did very little visiting of museums or trips to the movies. When asked, I went but never would suggest on my own.
As others have stated, suggest he go across the street and have a catch. Bring out the ball and hand it to your husband and make the suggestion. Sign him up for swim lessons and make that part of your husbands routine.
Quite frankly, enjoy whatever time/help he will give because if you seperate your daily tasks will become magnified.
My mother was the one who played sports with me, took me to practices etc as there was not a father in the house.
With the holidays approaching, purchase some sports related items or a bike and mention when your kids are opening gifts how much fun they will have with dad. Passive aggressive behavior can go a very long way
But at the end of the day, most of us are who we are and it is very difficult to change.
Instead, lower your expectations, and mentally you will be in a much better place.
Best of luck

20

I am not sure we can ever be sure what parenting style is the right one until years later.

My wife did not like my parenting style with our D but my D now as an adult says that if it wasn’t for how I mentored her while she was growing up she would not be as happy and secure as she is as an adult.