What’s important is your children feel they are loved and supported by both parents.
I’m a mom with two kids, one on the spectrum. Going to be honest – I don’t see much wrong with his parenting style, especially as he now seems to have more time for his family. You seem to have a very strict set of ‘dad’ things you want him to do, and strict rules on how you want him to interact with them. I don’t think either of those are necessary for raising kids well.
If you need more help with household chores, ask him to help or hire someone. You seem angry and unhappy, but this seems like a red herring to focus on the fact that he doesn’t engage your kids over museum exhibits or play sports with them. I’d focus more on whether he is kind and loving to them, keeps them safe, provides financially for them, is a good example when it comes to personal traits like honesty, etc. A marriage isn’t all about doing everything exactly the same way your partner would. There be dragons… You seem really focused on how your glass is half empty. You seem to actually have a lot of blessings with him that you are having trouble seeing.
I also just re-read your post above about skills. Here is the thing – you just can’t make every interaction or every day of your family life focused on skill building for your kids. You may end up with “skilled kids” but an utterly miserable family. My kids are now 25 and 20. Did we sometimes consciously work with them on specific skills or areas of behavior? Of course. Was that our primary focus every minute of parenting? No! This is NOT a software project (and I am a project manager by profession). You need to stop viewing your family life as focused on skill building in your kids and just be as a family. Eat out, go to the park, go to the beach, enjoy a museum, play a board game for fun. This IS a big part of your end game – kids who remember fun times with their family and each other. It isn’t all about molding every second, or honestly every day.
Aspieration, I have to ask this, with no ill intent. Is it possible that you, yourself, are on the spectrum?
Because I have to agree with intparent. The way that you are talking about your family is how you’d talk about a project - transferring X skills to Y clients with goals at Z point in time. In another thread you talked about what chores were necessary for your 6 / 7 year olds to make them responsible teens, as if there were some magic that if they emptied the dishwasher by age 7 and set the table by age 8 they’d be on track to know how to use public transportation by age 15 and interact with adults at age 16.
They aren’t projects. They are PEOPLE. Love them, guide them, educate them, sure, but also spend just fun time with them. Don’t try to consciously mold your interaction into these goals as though you were managing a business or work project. It just doesn’t work that way.
I’m sure you’ve learned already from your son that any expectations you might have about parenting get thrown out the window - because you think you’re going to have a child that you will do A and B with and he’ll wind up at point C, and guess what – man plans, god laughs.
Work on creating happiness in your household / marriage – not a list of specific goals about certain topics. It matters not whether your husband takes them to the movies or the zoo or the museum or plays catch or teaches them to swim or watches TV on the couch with them - what matters is the emotional nature of the interaction.
“Even if we go to a museum he really wants to do entertainment-activities (e.g. butterfly garden) and does not read things in the exhibits to the kids or, frankly, engage the kids. He says things, like, “Do you want to see what is in the next room?” They are bright, curious kids.”
That IS engaging them! It’s engaging them to say “look at the pretty butterflies!” and to pick up on their social cues that the room with the trains is boring but the room with the dinosaurs looks pretty cool. I sense you think museums are to be approached more solemnly and that every exhibit must be read / absorbed? I used to be that way … and now I go to some of the greatest museums in the world, and I just wander to whatever exhibits catch my eye and I don’t worry about the exhibits that don’t catch my eye. It’s ok. Honest.
"My dad (who taught me to ride a bike, throw and kick a ball, cast, catch and release a fish, play chess, camp, etc) "
My dad never taught me any of those things. Neither did my mom. I didn’t learn to ride a bike til I was 20, I still can’t throw / kick, and we were most decidedly not an outdoorsy activity family. That’s ok. I love them anyway. There are a lot of ways to be a good parent, and the specifics of what-you-do are rather irrelevant.
Speaking as a dad (though I cannot talk about having a kid on the spectrum) I can understand what you are saying, OP, but I think also you might be going about it wrong. First of all, there is nothing wrong with going to a museum and simply enjoying it for the ‘fun’ of it, you can go to an art museum for example and not have to explain the difference between impressionist and cubist painting, likewise if you take a kid to a music concert you don’t have to take them to a concert of serious music, it is okay to go and simply enjoy the music, even if it is ‘just’ movie music. Your husband is spending time with the kids, and not all life has to be about ‘serious things’ or in learning things directly. As a father, there are things I enjoyed with my son that were pretty traditional, we loved to play catch and such, but that doesn’t mean every father has to do those things. I suspect your husband, based on his background, may never have done things like play ball (though if he loves baseball, that is kind of surprising, most baseball nuts love to do things like play ball with the kids, get them into little league and such). If your husband loves baseball, then sharing that with the kids is just as valuable as playing ball or whatnot with them, the key is they share it with him. To this day, one of the strongest bonds I share with my son is through sports, while I am not that big a sports fan, I enjoy it, but my son truly loves it (I have an oddity, a sports geek son who is also a serious music student/music geek:).
Obviously, if you feel your H spends too little time with them, that too much of the burden is on you, you have very right to talk to him about it, but rather than telling him what he should be doing, laying out how he should be a dad, I agree with others, talk about the issues and seeing what he comes up with. It could be, for example, he doesn’t feel comfortable teaching the kids to throw a ball, maybe he feels like he is aweful at it and would embarrass himself (and yes, it may seem silly, but believe me it is real), but maybe he has other things he would like to try. As a parent, they tell you that with kids, you often have to suggest things for them to try, that they won’t ask for it, well, it is the same way with H, it is okay to suggest things, then see what intrigues him, but I would be careful about trying to make H fit a pattern you think is appropriate. You mention Agile, one of the reasons they promote that methodoly is flexibility, it is designed to allow creating software without getting locked into rigid methodologies of “this is the way you do it”, it allows for changing user stories, it allows for different approaches within the framework.
Believe me, speaking as a father and also as a son, the biggest factor is going to be the time he spent with them and showing interest. If he is the fun dad, while you are the serious mom, that is fine (as long as you aren’t shouldering the burden),that can work out, the only problem I would have is if he was undercutting what you were doing, like if for example you were dealing with bad behavior and he rewarded it or undercut what you were doing, that would be bad. The key thing is to talk to him about you think needs to be done with the kids, lay out a general idea, then talk to him about the things he can do. It doesn’t sound like he is an absent father, it sounds like he enjoys being with the kids, and that in of itself is huge; if he just worked all the time, then locked himself away watching tv or doing whatever by himself, that would be a problem IMO, but what he is doing is part of being a dad.
I’m impressed that you have reached out, and asked for suggestions, and tried to take them in. It’s hard to do that in forums without getting defensive.
Have you looked at family-of-origin issues in therapy? It seems obvious, but not all therapists are into it. FOO stuff can really affect your marriage (for your H too).
Wishing you peace and clarity.
Question for OP (maybe I missed this): is there a significant difference in age between you and H? And even if there isn’t, how old is he? I have to say that his general approach is not so unusual for older dads.
@fleishmo6, @tom1944 @oldfort, @intparent, @pizzagirl, @musicprnt, @SouthFloridaMom9 Thank you for your input.
I will admit that I am driven by a terror at the thought that I will be dead and gone and S1 will be homeless or in jail. So fear drives a lot of my behavior. I know NO parent can know how things will turn out for their kids. I know that there are no guarantees – for ANY parent about ANY child.
But by the time S1 was 5 he had already been kicked out of a school. By the time he was 5, I’d already sat across from a child psychologist and was told that college, love/marriage, independent living might - MIGHT! - be possible, but to manage my expectations and take it year by year.
So sorry but no, I can’t go back to hey, let’s have a movie night anymore. Yes I’m constantly thinking about skill building. Yes I’m trying to maximize the chances for success EVERY DAY. Harkening back to a line @sseamom wrote, the notion of “surviver mode” fits immigrant parents who are desperate for their child to have a crack at a better life and me with S1.
I am pressing my face against the window of normal, filled with determination for S1, that he has a chance at normal. And I think it is reasonable to ask for real help from H. Because the stakes are sky high and we get one shot at this.
What sort of educational activities does a 5 yr old really need? Reading him a book at bedtime is plenty, imho. Studies have shown that kids that age benefit far more from play rather than “education”. Open playtime encourages social development, creative thinking, and problem solving. It’s much, much more valuable for their development later in life than learning how to count. Education at that age is not art history or arithmetic, it’s how to explore the world, interact with others, develop motor skills, and become socially well-adjusted.
When my D was young, our playtime generally involved things like me sitting patiently while she gave me a “haircut” which was basically her soaking me with a water bottle and combing my hair. Or tea parties where we drank imaginary tea. We also played a lot of dodgeball with an inflatable plastic beach ball. And I chased her around the house a lot threatening to tickle her. If anybody told me that was not “engaged” parenting for a 3-6 year old, I’d be both offended and wondering about that person’s sanity.
It also sounds like OP could really use some help with her S1. Maybe she should consider getting some help - either someone trained in that area, or even just a babysitter. The constant stress and demands take a heavy toll and getting some outside help to ease the burden can be a great relief. Even though we only had the one D, we had a regular babysitter come over a few times a week just to give a break; sometimes we’d go out on “date night” but frequently we’d just collapse exhausted in front of the tv for a couple hours to unwind.
I’ll be back later but I just wanted to say to the OP that I can relate to what you are going through, because H did emotionally abandon me and our daughters.
@hunt Me=40, H=42.
@anomander You sound a lot like I was before S1’s diagnosis. We built cushion forts. We had pillow fights. We spent a lot of time wandering around parks. We dug up scores of earthworms.
But at some point, a kid needs to learn to read. And it didn’t happen with normal input. In fact, phonics was a battle zone. S1 went from can’t read ‘the cat sat on the mat’ and kicking/punching anyone with a sight word flashcard to reading for pleasure in about a year. Reading for S1 took a team of no less than a dozen people – teachers, specialists with a kitchen sink of acronyms (SIET, SETTS, SPED) – and years of focused work.
We are now working on a similar “ICU” all-hands-on-deck approach for math. And writing.
I didn’t order this from the baby menu but that is What It Takes. So I’m trying to figure out how to make this level of parenting intensity (I sarcastically refer to it as parenting ICU) sustainable for the next decade and, so I’m told from parents with older Aspies, maybe beyond. Maybe far beyond.
I have a kid on the spectrum, too. Sorry – you are letting your terror of the future ruin your marriage and your family life. I advocate for my kid, coach her regularly, and agree that I spent s lot more energy parenting her that my neuro-typical kid. But really – learning to throw a ball and go fishing? Talking about the museum exhibits with your kids vs just making sure they are staying safe and behaving appropriately in the museum? Those have zero to do with what your kid needs to know to function as an adult. You have your eye on the wrong things. Honestly. you will drive your husband & partner in this away completely if you continue this way. Stop panicking. Work on being a calming influence in your family, not being so controlling that no one will want to be around you. You CANNOT project manage away his autism, and you will ruin your family life trying.
How about doing some research to find out what life is like for adults on the spectrum who do not succeed in becoming completely “normal”? You might even start here on CC. There are parents here with teenage or college-age kids on the spectrum.
It may turn out that the answers are not so terrifying. And although that won’t stop you from trying to ensure that your son has as good a life as possible, it may take away some of the huge stress that you’re feeling.
About 50 years ago, a pair of parents must have been terrified when they discovered that their son, born prematurely, had severely impaired vision. He was blind in one eye and had only limited vision in the other, and this would never change. He would never be able to read normal print, drive a car, or do many of the other things that most of us take for granted. How would he ever be independent? Could he support himself? Find a wife? Have any kind of a life?
It turns out that he graduated from high school and college with excellent grades, went on to a career as a high school teacher, got married, and later switched to a career in communications. He still has to rely on buses or his wife for transportation, and he can read only with the aid of magnifying devices, but he leads a reasonably normal and fulfilling life. I know this because he’s my colleague, working in the office across the hall from me at a large government contractor.
It may be that your son – with a different disability – could do just as well. My colleague will never be “normal” but he is certainly OK. And perhaps your son can be, too.
My husband liked playing with our children when they were little. When their needs became more complex, he withdrew. Yes, Ds and I survived and perhaps we have thrived, but H is, by his own choice, not part of that. I do think it’s important that OP’s husband be a father and spouse as well as a playmate to the children.
Your H sounds like my dad somewhat. “All” he did with me was “stuff” because that’s the example he had from his own father. Based on what you shared about his life, he may only be emulating the example he had. FWIW, I have no hard feelings, and since he passed away, all I have are the memories. So take the long view, as long as he’s invovled, let the kids have fun.
My husband and I have very different parenting styles and due to issues that each of us has, I’m the education parent and he is the fun parent, while I am deeply, profoundly anxious due to a childhood trauma, and my husband is a risk-taker. I was very envious of the fun that he had with them until I realized that he was teaching them other, important lessons at all times. Particularly my son, who will learn to be a man from my husband. I also came to see that as the education parent, I got to read to them and communicate with them in a more regular basis about things that were important to me. That kind of communication bears fruit in the long-term, so you have to look past the short-term fun. The thing is that all kids are enriched and broadened by being surrounded by different people, interests and styles of communicating. The last thing you should do is stomp on that because your husband is desperately needed to balance your anxiety (believe me, I speak from experience) because you don’t want your kids to grow up equally anxious or stunted because of your anxiety. If your husband isn’t harming, neglecting, or abusing your kids (and it sounds like the opposite of that), then I strongly urge you to stay out of his parenting because that is a sacred thing between him and his kids. You should work on your relationship with your husband because it seems like that’s where the problem lies. I wish you the very best!
Have you come to grips with the fact that no matter how well you “project manage” this, it may be something where your son is just going to be a fundamentally different person from what you thought / expected / hoped? That’s not an easy thing to come to grips with, by any means. It seems that you feel that you can project-manage him to “normal” and if he doesn’t ever get to “normal” - it will reflect poorly on you as a “failure.” All you can do is the best you can do, which is what you are doing.
I would also think about the atmosphere being created for S2. You don’t want a tense atmosphere for him, and it feels like right now, there is a tense atmosphere.
I know this is easy to say, as I don’t have a special-needs or autistic child. I wish you peace.
OP, with this thread and your other threads I most wish for you and your family to take a month or two where you all just hang out and do things you like with no real expectations. I mean, go to work, go to school if you need to, but otherwise, chill-lax!!! I really, really worry that you are going to doom yourself and your children. They are still so young - missed days of no structured educational activities are ok! And maybe needed!
You know this - just include good conversation in your daily routines with the kids (not staged conversation (tonight we’re going to have a talk about endangered wildlife) , not conversation that is just commands (go get your shoes we’re leaving!) - talk about your day, tell a story about your childhood when it comes to mind, watch a tv shoe together and laugh, play a board game that is simple and just fun.
Parenting - if we’re lucky and strive for it - should be mostly fun and sharing. Not structured and demanding and a checklist of what to accomplish. Sounds like your husband is willing to “let his hair down” - give EVERYONE in your family permission - including you - to do the same.
@Aspieration It sounds like your concerns are really centered around S1 and making sure his needs are met. That’s different than how you presented your OP and probably why many responses haven’t been what you’re looking for. I think a different thread title mentioning asperger’s would get you a more targeted audience better able to understand what you’re going through and offer more specific advice. You don’t want “Dad” advice, you want “Parent’s who’ve raised a child with Asperger’s” advice.
I can’t imagine what your life is like, and will readily admit that any advice I have to give with regards to raising your S1 is probably not worth a plugged nickle. You really need to reach out to the folks who’ve been in your shoes. My heart goes out to you and I wish you all the best for you and your family.
I wonder if there is a support group for parents of Aspies in your area? Learning how others in your shoes cope, just knowing you are not alone, etc., could be a great thing for you.