A question for all the dads out there from a mom

Parent Cafe
41

I’m a mom and I’m divorced, so…take my advice FWIW.

It may seem that your H is doing more of the fun stuff, but as others have said, there’s a place for fun stuff. Remember that if you end up divorced, things will get worse for all of you.

I heartily endorse the support group idea. Maybe your H would come too. It might help if he met some other dads in the same boat.

Personally, it sounds to me as if you could use some more paid help. My D hated to write…just hated it. We’d fight like crazy. I finally hired a teacher to tutor her, so she’d fight with the tutor instead of me. She did fight with the tutor—whom she’d really liked before the tutoring sessions, but my D and I spent a lot less of our limited time together arguing. I don’t know how much of the skill set stuff for S1 can be handed off to a tutor, but I think you should try to shift some–preferably to your working hours.( Hey, on CC there are parents who admit they hired a private college counselor primarily so somebody else would do the nagging.)

I was much closer to my dad than my mom. Dad never tossed me a ball. He didn’t teach me to swim or ride a bike. Why? He didn’t enjoy doing these things. Does your H like to toss a ball, ride a bike, swim? If not, I wouldn’t push your H to do these things with his sons.

What DOES he like to do? Does he like to play board games? There are games, e.g.,Sorry, that your sons are old eough to play that dad might enjoy playing with them. Even card games like “Go Fish” or “War” can be fun. Maybe this book would give you some ideas. http://www.amazon.com/Activities-Children-Aspergers-Processing-Disorders/dp/0071623361 My dad taught me how to play cribbage because he enjoyed that. Would he enjoy reading to the boys? Does he like music? Does he play an instrument? He might teach his sons how to read music. Does he like to garden or would he enjoy learning how to? Planting some veggies together might be a good activity.

Then there are classes in the community. Maybe your H needs some help. The married D of a friend discovered that Home Depot offers parent-kids classes. I just checked on-line. They are free and offered the first Saturday of every month. The classes are for kids 5-12. http://workshops.homedepot.com/workshops/kids-workshops The parent and child learn to use tools and work on a project together. Home Depot instructors lead the class. Her H really enjoys doing this with his S. (S is now 6; they’ve been doing this about a year.) I don’t know if S1’s issues would make this impossible, but maybe he could try it with S2–who may need some attention.

Googling turned up this. Again, I don’t know if your S’s issues make this suitable or not:

Again, half the fun of something like this is meeting other families in the same boat.

I didn’t deal with the issues you’re dealing with, so on that score, I can’t be much help. But if you want him to stay with your family, let him have some fun. It sounds like spending more time with the family is a new experience for him. Let him enjoy it to the extent possible, especially in the beginning. I think you need to have more fun with your family too. So, do try to pass off some of the drudgery stuff to paid help.

42

When my son, who is now 17, was DXed with autism my pediatrician sat me down and said, “Remember this is a marathon, not a sprint.” She explained that she has many patients who get a DX of autism/Asperger’s and attempt to do every single thing right now, to “fix” their child. But a child on the spectrum cannot be fixed. They must learn to find work arounds. In my family, it is both my son and my sister, now in her 40s who are in the spectrum. I suppose that having an adult sister (who was DXed in her 30s) made it easier to see the possibilities. I was told early one that my son was going to have academic problems, had to be in a special classroom, would probably not be able to do much. Well that same son is now a 4.0 student in a highly competitive high school program with an SAT of 2320, so no, things did not turn out as predicted…

My second child, was DXed with ADHD and dysgraphia. He turned out the be the academic challenge to the point of my having to pull him out of school for homeschooling. I never would have predicted that either. He is 13.

With all of this chaos going on in my house, I also had a husband who was from a different culture. He moved to the USA to marry me! He grew up poor, in a one room (not one bedroom but one room) house with no heating. A totally different life. His father worked and his mother was a traditional housewife, so he came into our marriage with a very traditional view on who does what, and in his view, the children are raised by the mother and the father works. In the evening he is too tired to do anything. He works 6 days a week and on Sunday, his one day off, he is too tire to do anything. I do ALL child raising in my house.

I resented this for quite awhile, because my own father, was a hands on father. But my father once told me something that really stuck with me. He told me that you have to look at the good things in a relationships, and if they outweigh the bad, then the relationship is worth it. My husband may not be a hands on daddy type, but he is a rock when it comes to taking care of us physically and financially. I never fear being homeless or without. I never fear that he is going to trade me in for a younger model because he is a- family is the most important - type of person. Sure hands on dad does not factor into that in his mind, but, he feels that family as a whole is more important than hanging out with the guys, and puts us before his own extended family, always.

In the end, I did all the heavy lifting when it came to child raising, but I was free from a lot of other things. When I felt I needed to leave my career to homeschool my son, but husband said, of course, you know best! In fact, when I say anything about the needs of our children, he says, you know best. That is the trade off of doing the heavy lifting.

OP I encourage you to remember that you are in this for the long haul. You have many years of raising children ahead of you, and you can either accept your husband as he is, or try to change him and destroy your marriage. It is really your choice. Does the good outweigh the bad? If the answer is yes then accept your husband for who he is, if the answer is no, well then you have a totally different situation.

43

“Expectations are premeditated resentments.” We have that on our refrigerator. You may have to come to terms with you doing the heavy lifting for S1. Special needs kids are a wedge issue in families, stressing your relationships, which can either drive you apart or make you closer. Your husband is unlikely to change too much, though I agree he should be participating more. Encourage him, but nicely; don’t let him know you think he is doing a poor job as a parent. The most important thing is for your kids is for them to know that he loves you, and you shouldn’t do anything to screw that up. A home where kids feel safe and secure is where they will do best.

The wife and I have three very typical kids, two now in college, and that afforded me the freedom to coach baseball, basketball and soccer. We have friends raising kids with various levels of autism and see that sports fall off the radar for them (except for one and distance running, maybe try that with S1).

One thing we did, back when W was working part time and spending the majority of her time with the kids, was get subscriptions to the local children’s theater . I would take one kid at a time (NOT both) and make an evening of it, no Gameboy, no cell phones. It changes the dynamic, strengthens the bond between dad and child to be out without mom or siblings along. Alone time may help him see the needs and help him with motivation.

I grew up in a neighborhood with some terrible dads, alcoholics, physical abuse, and those kids would have loved to have a father like your husband. You may not like his style but it sounds like he is working at being a good father. Do what you can and try not to take your frustrations out on your husband.

44

ETA…there are some terrific online groups for parents of kids on the spectrum, plus there are also in person resources where you live. Hoping you have tapped into those resources.

Even kids on the spectrum need “fun” things to do too. Every moment can’t be teach, teach teach. They need to do what other families do. If they enjoy movies and meals out (some kids on the spectrum do NOT enjoy these things) then these are very appropriate family activities.

Re: reading every single description at a museum…that makes me nuts. Especially for little kids…and 5 and 7 is little kids, the reading of those little,description cards for everything could just be the thing that makes them NEVER want to go to a museum. At that age, you should be looking for,children’s museums with hands on activities and exhibits. Things that are appealing to children. And it’s OK if you, the mom, does these rather than your husband.

I had a much more flexible schedule than my husband, and could more easily plan outings to places, trips to the beach, parent/child activity classes, etc. It was really quite fine.

Each parent brings a different role into parenting…they do not have to be identical! You need to respect your husband’s painting style…and he needs to respect yours. This doesn’t mean you both have to do everything the other person’s way.

And yes, I do understand about kids on the spectrum, and their needs.

45

Too late to add…but does this mean your husband did NOT take the attractive job offer in Stockholm?

46

Is that the 7 year old?

Many neurotypical kids don’t learn to read until age 8 or older. My son (dyslexic) learned to read comfortably at age 11. Many students attend schools such as Waldorf where reading isn’t expect until age 8 or 9.

It seems to me that you have unreasonable expectations. If your son is age 7 now, and it took “about a year” to get from kicking/punching to reading for pleasure… it sounds like reading skills were pushed on him at a time before he was developmentally or emotionally ready. In any case, if it only took a year… you are well ahead of the curve compared with parents of kids who have genuine reading disabilities.

Asperger’s isn’t generally associated with any specific academic problem – Aspie’s often excel in academic areas – but the big barrier is with social understanding and the ability to form and participate in social relationships. Those are the types of things that can be learned while going to the museum or eating out at a restaurant; certainly those are environments that provide an opportunity to observe others and to get a sense of expected behaviors.

I’d suggest that you take a step back and observe the social dynamic between your DH and S1— how does S1 behave around his Dad at the museum or at restaurants? Is that a time when there is less drama (like the kicking & punching you describe) and more cooperation? If so, please consider that those relaxed, demand-free times could be exactly what your S1 needs to have in his life, especially if the rest of his time his highly structured and scheduled with schools and other specialists. Rather than trying to change that part about your husband… you might consider trying to emulate him at times. Or at least recognize that your perception of what DH ought to be doing might be mistaken.

47

I’ve raised my son alone since he was 4. I feel fortunate that I moved to SE FL, and have many Latin friends. Their expectations of husbands are so different. One friend praised her hubby for taking them on outings every Sunday afternoon, to ball games or such. Their fathers were never hands-on, never did a nights feeding or changed a diaper. So, their husbands were heroes.

I recall the first time my dad tried to change my sons diaper. It kept falling off, and my dad kept trying. He was a far more nvolved GF than a dad. He thought it was great that I breast fed. He loved picking up,my son from school on early dismissal Friday’s, and they had a ritual of swimming together and sharing a snack. He watched ET so many times, he knew the words by heart. My uncle the engineer took son to pond to sail a boat. My cousin taught son to ride a bike. I can’t begin to say how grateful I am to all the men in my life who included my son in activities with their kids.

My son certainly has some Aspie qualities, as do many of his peer group. I cannot put myself in OP’s shoes, but I feel,her spouse is doing quite a lot, just differently than she would want.

48

OP, I am going to take a risk here and suggest that you are grieving. The loss of your mom, yes, which may have triggered unfinished grieving for the loss of your “normal” child since your sweet son’s diagnosis is not too far in the past. You are looking for sources of pain outside of yourself with the belief if you can change that source, your painful reality will change. It is very scary to look inward and face this pain, but the problem solving approach that will bring the most fruit may be just that. Your family is a dynamic system, your own healing may be what is needed. You are doing well with your sons, the therapies are obviously helping your handicapped child, but so will the joy and laughter of loving and enjoying each other as a family. Happy Thanksgiving.

49

The fact that you are ACOA and your husband has the same parenting style as my ex - also ACOA and an alcoholic himself - and we too have a son on the spectrum…almost too many things to say about this complex situation.

I don’t think your expectations are unreasonable. On the other hand after years of futile begging of my ex (while we were married) to teach our kids how to fish (my son wanted to learn so badly - H knew how, never happened) and ski (daughter wanted to learn, H was an excellent skiier, he bought the equipment but never took her to the mountain), I understand everything you say and am not sure you will get H to change. He’s not going to change unless HE wants to do so. My ex also thought it was the school’s responsibility to teach our children to read for example; he rarely read them a bedtime story and it was never his idea. I taught each of them how to ride a bike and drive a car, myself. If I didn’t do it, it wasn’t going to get done. I know this because I didn’t know how to fish or ski, and they never learned.

If you haven’t already, it would be good to explore in therapy your unmet expectations from your mother (and I am so sorry, my ex is hospitalized today due to complications from alcohol abuse) – and whether there is any relationship there to your feelings of unmet expectations from your H and how you approach the situation. I am concerned for you. You seem to be Supermom in this situation. Boy do I recognize that. I became a martyr in my home for years and it was hell. There are major control issues involved. I think you’ve got much bigger issues here than parenting styles.

50

Thank you for all the feedback. It is 10:15 pm Thanksgiving night. At one point over dinner I caught sight of a picture of my mother and it knocked me sideways. The grief is real and complex. I acknowledge that.

Today, in a light moment of discussing how to parent S1, H suggested that parenting S1 was like defusing a bomb. “It is a skill that requires suffering through explosions to master.” We had a laugh about the analogy.

S1 is a foot away, reading ‘Charlie and the Chocolate Factory’ (he bought it at a thrift shop yesterday) by the light of my laptop. I should be wrangling him to bed – but I wanted to say… thank you. Thanks for the comments and concern. I’m digesting everything you say.

Is there anything better than a child laughing privately with a book? Then pierced by…“Mama, what’s a gobstopper?”

51

Happy Thanksgiving Aspieration. When you stated that your mother was an alcoholic, a big part of the picture clicked into place. I am going to hazard a guess that you spent some of your life as the family fixer, working overtime to try to make everything seem normal. It’s a thankless and infuriating role familiar to children of alcoholics, and you’ve taken it on again with the accompanying resentment. Your oldest son seems to be doing okay. Stop and take a breath. Think about how you want to live within this family. The level of happiness vs. stress and discord in the home is far more important to your son’s development - now and in the future - than whether he got everything possible out of a museum.

52

One of my coworkers once shared his experience with me about a conversation between him and his son.

At one time he “lectured” his son: it is good for you to work harder so that it is more likely that many doors will be open for you. His son (either in the high school age or in the early college age) relied: Dad, I know you may not agree with me on this, but I think I need to tell you this: working hard and achieving a lot are really not of very high priority as a lifetime goal for me.

It got me thinking…

Actually…in my family, when my child was growing up, I was the parent who tends to set a “higher standard” for my son. He actually complained that I would not be pleased even if he had tried very hard. My wife tends to set a lower standard. Looking at the relationship between my wife and him as well as that between me and him today, I am not sure who is “wiser.” Actually, without my wife’s efforts on the side to “help me” on the side, his outcome as well as my relationship with him could be worse today.

53

@snowdog and @mcat2 - thanks for the feedback. Chewing on it.

54

While my father was unusually laissez-faire in some ways*, he had high academic expectations and didn’t tolerate slacking or poor performance.

A serious issue considering I hit the academic wall at 13 in my STEM-centered public magnet and it showed in my abysmal HS GPA. His overreaction to my abysmal academic performance got to the point I not only stopped showing him my HS report cards, but also refused to show him my undergrad grade reports despite the fact my college grades were ones which would make most parents…even him proud.

The fact I somehow managed to earn a near-full ride to my LAC to the point I was able to defray remaining expenses through summer/part-time job earnings meant my parents couldn’t use the “I pays for your college so you must shows me your grades” argument.

He ended up not knowing how I did in college until several years after graduation when he expressed astonishment I managed to graduate from that LAC*** given my abysmal HS record.

In short, don’t become so serious an “education parent” that you end up driving your kids away. It won’t do you nor them any good.

I.e. No curfew after 11 years of age*, not Ivy/elite U or bust, not insisting I studied STEM/pre-professional subjects, etc.

** Ironically, I never really took advantage of that during my middle/HS years beyond arriving very late home(midnight-2 am) from studying/getting tutoring from HS classmates at their homes.

*** He was initially concerned as he was worried I wouldn’t be able to handle the academic expectations and rigor there which further soured our relationship as back then I felt he was insulting my intelligence by expressing such worries to me. Fortunately, my undergrad record proved his fears were completely unfounded.

55

@cobrat, My son could believe I had been as misbehaved as your dad in this regard. This reflects less on the child’s academic capability or performance than the parents’ unrealistic “expectations.” (e.g., I expected my high school son to learn Special Relativity using a textbook slightly more advanced/rigorous than a typical college textbook, started to pick up “video game programming” using a kid programming language – and trying to explain to him the difference between the static data typing and the dynamic data typing in computer language design while he was in the first half of elementary school. And assembly language and computer architecture late in middle school – he took a boatload of “intellectual abuse” while too young for that. LOL.) DS mostly excels academically (in high school and beyond) and he still “suffered”.

56

this holiday season, I’m thankful that my parents’ expectations were that I do well in school, and not that I “had” to learn relativity at this age and computer programming at that age.

57

My parent expectation was even simpler…and it is what we expected from our kids as well. We just excite red them to do the best they could. We didn’t expect all A’s, or that they would excel at everything they did. We just wanted them to do their best.

And they continue to do so.

58

^ I am trying to “cure” the hurt that cobrat may still feel (if he has not overcome it completely.) A good intention here. A related point: Some parent is just more “uptight” than other parent and the parent skill (not only the parent’s love) matters.

59

As for the OP some questions other posters have pointed out:

Could it be possible your H doesn’t like sporty pastimes and/or isn’t very good at them and feels insecure/detests them so much that expecting him to teach such activities to his kids may be a tall order?

Even if he is proficient, that doesn’t necessarily means he would enjoy it to the point of wanting to spend whatever free time he has with the kids to do what he may consider a seriously unpleasant chore or even an unwelcome reminder of perceived athletic inadequacy even if it’s in his mind only.

To draw a similar analogy, I have an older friend and former supervisor who is an excellent cook due to having parents who ran a successful restaurant while growing up. However, despite his proficiency in cooking, he regards it as such drudgery and an unwelcome reminder of a childhood with a family in serious survival mode that he does his best to avoid cooking from scratch even for himself…much less be willing to teach younger relatives or friends his high level cooking skills.

Also, as several other posters have asked, could it be he didn’t grow up playing such sports/activities you’re expecting him to teach the kids?

Could having such an expectation of him doing so be akin to a situation I had with some suburban relatives who assumed I knew how to maintain or do chores related to owning/living in a suburban house even though they very well knew I grew up in the city and spent practically all my life in urban apartments?

Just some questions to add to others in the food for thought vein.

60

PG, DS was actually “behind” his peers (who have the new immigrant parents working in the industry similar to mine) in computer programming – at least when he was early in high school (he told me so by asking me why so many of his friends had learned so much about computers and he felt handicapped as compared to some of them mostly because I intentionally did not want him to spend too much of his time on this.) Some of his “wiz kid” friends are actually here in SV, beating me up in the technology field right now (at least two of his old high school friends are at places like Google and Facebook in SV where I have no chance to get hired. I helped one of my “prime age” coworkers to review/polish his skill and he did get hired by Apple though. LOL.)