<p>What schools are graduating students who end up at the PHD level? A ranking unrelated to school size, but instead related to the percentage of undergrads who go on to the PHD level:</p>
<p><a href=“http://web.centre.edu/ir/student/OverallBaccOrigins.pdf[/url]”>http://web.centre.edu/ir/student/OverallBaccOrigins.pdf</a></p>
<p>altovoce…interesteddad posted some great stats on this subject some time back…interesteddad, if you’re out there, how does this report compare?</p>
<p>This has been discussed from time to time, with strong opinions being voiced on each side (interesteddad and xiggi, are you out there). I come down firmly in the middle. These types of lists are helpful but need to be taken with a grain of salt – for some disciplines, getting a Ph.D. is not necessarily a sign of excellence. What about the chemistry/biology majors that go to med school or vet school or dental school? Ditto the Poli Sci, History and Econ majors who go on to law school or directly into investment banking?</p>
<p>What I found interesting was not only an LAC dominance but also a dominance by the larger schools known for having a strong undergrad focus (ie. Yale and Princeton). I don’t know what or if there is a connection, but that was my first reaction.</p>
<p>It is impossible for big schools to do well in a study like this.</p>
<p>Columbia is 49 and Penn is lower.</p>
<p>NYU is off the charts as is UCLA. </p>
<p>Does that mean you don’t go to these schools?</p>
<p>I would like to see the number of students that get PHDs from all the schools. </p>
<p>The rankings would look a lot different.</p>
<p>Then the Lacs wouldn’t look good. This would also be ridiculous.</p>
<p>I am curious. Why do you think big school/small school makes a difference? Are you saying that students in smaller schools have higher aspirations?</p>
<p>There are many high aspirations. PHD is just one.</p>
<p>Find a list that ranks schools based on the number of PHDs.</p>
<p>Your list will look different.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Same report. Data pulled from the same source (the National Science Foundation database of doctoral grads that they’ve been updating since the 1920s). Same methodology, except that I kicked out schools that average under 100 undergrad degrees per year, so my lists don’t include some of the music conservatories and seminaries.</p>
<p>The reports I generated just cover a more recent ten year period and my spreadsheet is sortable for various fields of study in addition to overal doctoral production.</p>
<p>Here is the top 200 for the most recent 10 year period:</p>
<p>Academic field: ALL </p>
<p>PhDs and Doctoral Degrees: ten years (1994 to 2003) from NSF database<br>
Number of Undergraduates: ten years (1989 to 1998) from IPEDS database<br>
Percentage of graduates receiving a doctorate degree. </p>
<p>Note: Does not include colleges with less than 1000 graduates over the ten year period<br>
Note: Includes all NSF doctoral degrees inc. PhD, Divinity, etc., but not M.D. or Law. </p>
<p>1 California Institute of Technology 35.8%
2 Harvey Mudd College 24.7%
3 Swarthmore College 21.1%
4 Reed College 19.9%
5 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 18.3%
6 Carleton College 16.8%
7 Bryn Mawr College 15.8%
8 Oberlin College 15.7%
9 University of Chicago 15.3%
10 Yale University 14.5%
11 Princeton University 14.3%
12 Harvard University 14.3%
13 Grinnell College 14.1%
14 Haverford College 13.8%
15 Pomona College 13.8%
16 Rice University 13.1%
17 Williams College 12.7%
18 Amherst College 12.4%
19 Stanford University 11.4%
20 Kalamazoo College 11.3%
21 Wesleyan University 11.0%
22 St John’s College (both campus) 10.6%
23 Brown University 10.6%
24 Wellesley College 10.4%
25 Earlham College 10.0%
26 Beloit College 9.6%
27 Lawrence University 9.5%
28 Macalester College 9.3%
29 Cornell University, All Campuses 9.0%
30 Bowdoin College 9.0%
31 Mount Holyoke College 8.9%
32 Smith College 8.9%
33 Vassar College 8.8%
34 Case Western Reserve University 8.7%
35 Johns Hopkins University 8.7%
36 St Olaf College 8.7%
37 Hendrix College 8.7%
38 Hampshire College 8.6%
39 Trinity University 8.5%
40 Knox College 8.5%
41 Duke University 8.5%
42 Occidental College 8.4%
43 University of Rochester 8.3%
44 College of Wooster 8.3%
45 Barnard College 8.3%
46 Bennington College 8.2%
47 Columbia University in the City of New York 8.1%
48 Whitman College 8.0%
49 University of California-Berkeley 7.9%
50 College of William and Mary 7.9%</p>
<p>51 Carnegie Mellon University 7.8%
52 New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology 7.8%
53 Brandeis University 7.7%
54 Dartmouth College 7.6%
55 Wabash College 7.5%
56 Bates College 7.5%
57 Davidson College 7.5%
58 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 7.2%
59 Franklin and Marshall College 7.2%
60 Fisk University 7.1%
61 Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL) 7.1%
62 University of California-San Francisco 6.8%
63 Allegheny College 6.8%
64 Furman University 6.6%
65 University of Pennsylvania 6.5%
66 Washington University 6.5%
67 Bard College 6.5%
68 Northwestern Univ 6.4%
69 Rhodes College 6.4%
70 Agnes Scott College 6.3%
71 Spelman College 6.3%
72 Antioch University, All Campuses 6.2%
73 Kenyon College 6.2%
74 University of Dallas 6.2%
75 Ripon College 6.1%
76 Colorado College 6.1%
77 Bethel College (North Newton, KS) 6.1%
78 Hamilton College 6.0%
79 Goshen College 6.0%
80 Middlebury College 6.0%
81 Erskine College 6.0%
82 University of the South 5.9%
83 University of Michigan at Ann Arbor 5.8%
84 Drew University 5.8%
85 Wake Forest University 5.8%
86 Tougaloo College 5.8%
87 Goucher College 5.8%
88 Chatham College 5.7%
89 Cooper Union 5.7%
90 Alfred University, Main Campus 5.7%
91 Tufts University 5.7%
92 University of California-Santa Cruz 5.6%
93 Colgate University 5.6%
94 Colby College 5.5%
95 Bucknell University 5.4%
96 Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology 5.4%
97 Concordia Teachers College 5.4%
98 University of Virginia, Main Campus 5.4%
99 Sarah Lawrence College 5.3%
100 Southwestern University 5.3%</p>
<p>101 Centre College 5.3%
102 University of California-San Diego 5.3%
103 Austin College 5.3%
104 Trinity College (Hartford, CT) 5.2%
105 Scripps College 5.2%
106 Clark University 5.2%
107 Hope College 5.1%
108 University of Notre Dame 5.1%
109 Connecticut College 5.0%
110 Luther College 5.0%
111 College of the Holy Cross 4.9%
112 Ohio Wesleyan University 4.9%
113 Juniata College 4.9%
114 Wittenberg University 4.9%
115 Transylvania University 4.9%
116 Asbury College 4.8%
117 Calvin College 4.8%
118 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 4.8%
119 Colorado School of Mines 4.8%
120 University of California-Davis 4.8%
121 Vanderbilt University 4.7%
122 Berea College 4.7%
123 Randolph-Macon Woman’s College 4.7%
124 Millsaps College 4.7%
125 Union College (Schenectady, NY) 4.7%
126 University of Wisconsin-Madison 4.6%
127 Georgetown University 4.6%
128 St John’s University (Collegeville, MN) 4.6%
129 Hiram College 4.5%
130 Illinois Wesleyan University 4.5%
131 University of PR Rio Piedras Campus 4.5%
132 Augustana College (Sioux Falls, SD) 4.5%
133 Andrews University 4.5%
134 University of California-Los Angeles 4.5%
135 Coe College 4.4%
136 Hanover College 4.4%
137 Worcester Polytechnic Institute 4.4%
138 Benedictine College 4.4%
139 Lafayette College 4.4%
140 Texas Lutheran University 4.4%
141 DePauw University 4.3%
142 Mills College 4.3%
143 Pitzer College 4.3%
144 Cornell College 4.3%
145 Emory University 4.3%
146 Denison University 4.3%
147 Stevens Institute of Technology 4.3%
148 Eckerd College 4.3%
149 Gustavus Adolphus College 4.2%
150 Oklahoma Baptist University 4.2%</p>
<p>151 Augustana College (Rock Island, IL) 4.2%
152 Lewis and Clark College 4.2%
153 Dickinson College 4.1%
154 University of Missouri, Rolla 4.1%
155 Birmingham Southern College 4.1%
156 Ursinus College 4.1%
157 University of Tulsa 4.1%
158 Monmouth College 4.1%
159 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 4.1%
160 Tulane University 4.1%
161 Alma College 4.0%
162 Washington and Lee University 4.0%
163 Ouachita Baptist University 4.0%
164 Georgia Institute of Technology, Main Campus 4.0%
165 Long Island University Southampton Campus 4.0%
166 St Lawrence University 4.0%
167 Lehigh University 4.0%
168 SUNY College of Environmental Sci & Forestry 3.9%
169 Albion College 3.9%
170 Centenary College of Louisiana 3.9%
171 Principia College 3.9%
172 Manchester College 3.9%
173 Union College (Lincoln, NE) 3.8%
174 Gettysburg College 3.8%
175 Chestnut Hill College 3.8%
176 Houghton College 3.8%
177 Spring Hill College 3.8%
178 Lake Forest College 3.8%
179 Wofford College 3.8%
180 University of Minnesota - Twin Cities 3.8%
181 Albertson College 3.7%
182 SUNY at Buffalo 3.7%
183 Willamette University 3.7%
184 Hobart William Smith Colleges 3.7%
185 Hamline University 3.7%
186 University of California-Irvine 3.6%
187 University of Colorado at Boulder 3.6%
188 Walla Walla College 3.6%
189 Hastings College 3.6%
190 Muhlenberg College 3.6%
191 Maryville College 3.6%
192 Westmont College 3.6%
193 Valparaiso University 3.6%
194 Trinity College (Washington, DC) 3.6%
195 Brigham Young University, Main Campus 3.6%
196 University of California-Riverside 3.6%
197 Albright College 3.6%
198 Whitworth College 3.6%
199 Bethany College (Bethany, WV) 3.6%
200 University of Texas at Austin 3.6%</p>
<p>I like these rankings because my school (well it will be next year) is above Harvard. I think it is interesting that there are so many conservatories on the list. It can also give you a feel for the type of student body of similar schools… Pomona is near the top whereas Claremont McKenna is near the bottom.</p>
<p>Altovoce, take Interestedad’s percentages and and multiply that number by the size of the student body and you will see that the list changes.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>OK, here’s the top 200 for the most recent 10 year period. The first number is the total undergrads who went on to get a PhD or equivalent. The second number is the total number of undergrad degrees granted by each school over the 10 year period.</p>
<p>1 University of California-Berkeley 4,470 *** 56,363
2 University of Michigan at Ann Arbor 3,134 *** 53,612
3 Cornell University, All Campuses 3,033 *** 33,736
4 University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 2,931 *** 61,136
5 University of Wisconsin-Madison 2,667 *** 58,176
6 University of Texas at Austin 2,613 *** 73,365
7 Harvard University 2,545 *** 17,855
8 Pennsylvania State U, Main Campus 2,519 *** 79,507
9 University of California-Los Angeles 2,454 *** 54,970
10 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 2,078 *** 11,348
11 Brigham Young University, Main Campus 2,049 *** 57,165
12 University of Minnesota - Twin Cities 1,970 *** 52,518
13 Michigan State University 1,917 *** 67,393
14 Stanford University 1,894 *** 16,662
15 Yale University 1,877 *** 12,941
16 Ohio State University, Main Campus 1,876 *** 69,239
17 University of Florida 1,863 *** 57,978
18 University of California-Davis 1,829 *** 38,488
19 Texas A&M University Main Campus 1,770 *** 68,093
20 University of Pennsylvania 1,688 *** 25,853
21 Purdue University, Main Campus 1,654 *** 53,192
22 University of California-San Diego 1,624 *** 30,559
23 Rutgers the State Univ of NJ New Brunswick 1,607 *** 51,837
24 University of Maryland at College Park 1,592 *** 51,689
25 Princeton University 1,585 *** 11,101
26 University of Washington - Seattle 1,580 *** 61,290
27 Indiana University at Bloomington 1,575 *** 51,040
28 University of Virginia, Main Campus 1,567 *** 29,049
29 Brown University 1,554 *** 14,669
30 University of Colorado at Boulder 1,510 *** 41,410
31 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 1,453 *** 35,755
32 Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State Univ 1,386 *** 39,199
33 University of Arizona 1,356 *** 45,998
34 Duke University 1,313 *** 15,531
35 Northwestern Univ 1,273 *** 19,770
36 University of Massachusetts at Amherst 1,265 *** 39,705
37 University of Chicago 1,263 *** 8,270
38 University of California-Santa Barbara 1,251 *** 39,182
39 University of California-Santa Cruz 1,209 *** 21,761
40 SUNY at Buffalo 1,169 *** 31,600
41 Iowa State University 1,164 *** 38,894
42 Boston University 1,144 *** 34,586
43 University of Iowa 1,138 *** 35,343
44 Florida State University 1,110 *** 51,180
45 Oberlin College 1,107 *** 7,067
46 Columbia University in the City of New York 1,101 *** 13,622
47 University of Missouri, Columbia 1,086 *** 34,660
48 University of California-Irvine 1,077 *** 29,534
49 University of PR Rio Piedras Campus 1,034 *** 22,853
50 University of Georgia 1,011 *** 45,641
51 College of William and Mary 1,005 *** 12,784
52 Arizona State University Main 985 *** 62,660
53 University of Rochester 983 *** 11,830
54 University of Notre Dame 983 *** 19,161
55 University of Nebraska at Lincoln 978 *** 28,839
56 University of Kansas, Main Campus 952 *** 33,232
57 University of Tennessee at Knoxville 951 *** 33,250
58 North Carolina State University at Raleigh 929 *** 36,418
59 University of Delaware 921 *** 30,609
60 Miami University, All Campuses 904 *** 34,763
61 Washington University 897 *** 13,887
62 University of Pittsburgh Main Campus 881 *** 31,176
63 Colorado State University 847 *** 32,432
64 Louisiana State Univ & Agric & Mechanical Col 844 *** 31,094
65 Rice University 842 *** 6,432
66 New York University 842 *** 30,099
67 University of Utah 834 *** 32,735
68 Dartmouth College 817 *** 10,684
69 San Diego State University 814 *** 50,140
70 Johns Hopkins University 805 *** 9,260
71 University of South Florida 794 *** 50,222
72 SUNY at Binghamton 793 *** 22,484
73 Auburn University, Main Campus 786 *** 37,770
74 Wesleyan University 780 *** 7,081
75 SUNY at Albany 775 *** 25,288
76 Swarthmore College 770 *** 3,657
77 Carleton College 766 *** 4,561
78 University of Connecticut 764 *** 30,443
79 Georgia Institute of Technology, Main Campus 757 *** 18,825
80 Baylor University 756 *** 21,633
81 Southern Illinois University-Carbondale 752 *** 46,872
82 SUNY at Stony Brook, All Campuses 751 *** 21,999
83 California Institute of Technology 738 *** 2,059
84 Carnegie Mellon University 736 *** 9,428
85 University of Oklahoma, Norman Campus 718 *** 23,986
86 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 712 *** 9,834
87 Tufts University 702 *** 12,422
88 Georgetown University 699 *** 15,251
89 Oklahoma State University, All Campuses 692 *** 26,724
90 University of Southern California 692 *** 32,825
91 University of Kentucky 690 *** 28,573
92 University of Cincinnati, All Campuses 687 *** 29,602
93 University of Oregon 683 *** 28,782
94 University of South Carolina at Columbia 680 *** 30,192
95 Texas Tech University 678 *** 33,142
96 University of New Mexico, All Campuses 674 *** 24,097
97 Ohio University, All Campuses 667 *** 34,167
98 Temple University 664 *** 33,342
99 University of Houston 647 *** 32,560
100 Williams College 644 *** 5,082
101 Wayne State University 641 *** 26,633
102 California State University-Long Beach 641 *** 42,916
103 Kansas State University 639 *** 29,131
104 Smith College 634 *** 7,162
105 West Virginia University 625 *** 27,492
106 Illinois State University 623 *** 38,550
107 Boston College 622 *** 23,284
108 University of Alabama 617 *** 27,080
109 Emory University 615 *** 14,258
110 Kent State University, All Campuses 614 *** 28,935
111 Vanderbilt University 612 *** 12,963
112 Syracuse University, Main Campus 610 *** 27,265
113 Bowling Green State Univ, All Campuses 609 *** 29,263
114 Wellesley College 608 *** 5,840
115 St Olaf College 599 *** 6,901
116 University of Miami 596 *** 17,708
117 Northern Illinois University 592 *** 35,234
118 Case Western Reserve University 587 *** 6,751
119 Clemson University 584 *** 24,586
120 California State University-Northridge 577 *** 38,926
121 University of Illinois at Chicago 571 *** 27,496
122 Oregon State University 570 *** 25,988
123 San Francisco State University 570 *** 37,431
124 University of New Hampshire 558 *** 22,668
125 University of North TX 540 *** 31,524
126 Brandeis University 536 *** 6,987
127 University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee 529 *** 25,020
128 Tulane University 526 *** 12,967
129 University of Vermont 526 *** 17,002
130 Reed College 517 *** 2,599
131 Amherst College 517 *** 4,179
132 Western Michigan University 517 *** 37,166
133 University of California-Riverside 513 *** 14,334
134 Washington State University 509 *** 32,427
135 CUNY Hunter College 505 *** 15,413
136 Vassar College 503 *** 5,702
137 California State Polytechnic U-San Luis Obispo 500 *** 30,502
138 University of Southern Mississippi 494 *** 22,370
139 San Jose State University 494 *** 39,093
140 Pomona College 492 *** 3,578
141 Wake Forest University 485 *** 8,364
142 University of Akron, All Campuses 480 *** 24,439
143 Marquette University 478 *** 17,129
144 George Washington University 477 *** 14,485
145 Loyola University of Chicago 473 *** 15,403
146 California State University-Fullerton 468 *** 40,248
147 California State University-Fresno 463 *** 29,848
148 University of Central Florida 463 *** 41,884
149 Indiana University of PA, All Campuses 462 *** 22,843
150 Barnard College 459 *** 5,536
151 Bryn Mawr College 456 *** 2,879
152 University of Arkansas, Main Campus 456 *** 17,713
153 Grinnell College 454 *** 3,229
154 California State University-Sacramento 447 *** 38,729
155 University of Dayton 446 *** 14,506
156 Bucknell University 445 *** 8,170
157 Mount Holyoke College 440 *** 4,936
158 James Madison University 438 *** 22,343
159 University of Wyoming 431 *** 17,141
160 Utah State University 431 *** 19,256
161 CUNY City College 430 *** 12,914
162 Mississippi State University 427 *** 20,880
163 Trinity University 420 *** 4,917
164 Lehigh University 420 *** 10,531
165 New Mexico State University, All Campuses 420 *** 17,805
166 CUNY Queens College 419 *** 18,725
167 University of Hawaii at Manoa 419 *** 25,225
168 Howard University 418 *** 13,207
169 California State University-Los Angeles 412 *** 21,917
170 CUNY Brooklyn College 398 *** 13,005
171 Furman University 385 *** 5,835
172 Southwest Missouri State University 385 *** 22,453
173 Haverford College 384 *** 2,773
174 Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL) 383 *** 5,386
175 Colgate University 378 *** 6,810
176 Calvin College 378 *** 7,884
177 University of Texas at Arlington 376 *** 27,968
178 Florida International University 372 *** 32,882
179 University of Toledo 371 *** 23,281
180 Ball State University 370 *** 30,799
181 Macalester College 368 *** 3,945
182 Northern Arizona University 364 *** 24,105
183 University of Rhode Island 363 *** 20,378
184 Fordham University 362 *** 12,454
185 St Louis University, Main Campus 361 *** 12,931
186 Michigan Technological University 360 *** 10,669
187 Eastern Illinois University 359 *** 21,737
188 University of North Dakota, All Campuses 358 *** 16,337
189 Georgia State University 358 *** 24,965
190 Central Michigan University 355 *** 30,099
191 University of PR Mayaguez Campus 352 *** 14,026
192 University of Maine 352 *** 14,932
193 University of Northern Iowa 352 *** 21,214
194 California State University-Chico 352 *** 27,845
195 Eastern Michigan University 351 *** 29,100
196 Virginia Commonwealth University 348 *** 22,735
197 Montana State University - Bozeman 336 *** 15,045
198 Bowdoin College 335 *** 3,740
199 Humboldt State University 332 *** 11,759
200 Villanova University 331 *** 16,921
201 University of Memphis 331 *** 19,250</p>
<p>But isn’t going by the number (as opposed to the percentage) useless. It merely rewards big schools for being big. It is the percentage figure which is most telling.</p>
<p>A few comments on a few of the comments:</p>
<p>a) I believe that the per capita doctorate numbers are more descriptive than qualitative. They provide a very strong clue as to the percentage of students who are very heavily focused on academic pursuits. For example, there is no doubt that a higher percentage of students at a top LAC are academically inclined than at a large state university. That’s fairly self-evident as a large state university’s mission is to serve a broad cross section of the state’s population where a small private college has a very distilled student body.</p>
<p>I also find the rankings to be useful in comparing two seemingly similar schools. It’s easy to see which is more pre-professionally inclined and which is more tilted towards research and academic careers. For example, MIT will certainly produce more PhD researchers than lawyers.</p>
<p>Finally, I find this list particularly useful in identifying some schools with somewhat less selective admissions criteria that are clearly doing something right academically.</p>
<p>As for conservatories: A terminal doctoral degree is very common among music students at that level. Also, these conservatories are often miniscule.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>It often doesn’t have to do with aspirations so much as statistics. When directly comparing large and small organizations, be they colleges, companies, or nations, a precentage or per capita anaysis will very often unfairly favor the small.</p>
<p>You see this statistical bias at work every four years right after the Olympics when some enterprising journalist will write a story showing the rank of nations based on their medals won as a function of their population. The winner is never some large sports-crazy nation like the US, Russia, or Germany. It’s always some tiny country like Bermuda or Luxembourg who scored the highest percentage by population by winning ONE medal. In 1996, for example, the winner was Tonga. Does that mean that Tonga in 1996 was a greater sports nation than the US, which was way down the list? Hardly.</p>
<p>Similarly, is say Knox College a PhD-producing powerhouse compared to say Michigan, given that Michgan is ranked 43 places lower on this list? Hardly.</p>
<p>Another way to look at it is to consider hypothetical schools: Tiny College and Huge U. Let’s say Tiny graduates 10 seniors per year and Huge graduates 10,000. If Tiny has some motivated students combined with a run of good luck and 4 of those 10 go on to get PhDs, it’s going to be at the top of your ranking. Huge U will have to have 4000 students go on to get PhDs to keep up. Lets say only 1000 do. It’s going to be far behind Tiny in this ranking. But which one actually has a far bigger impact in the world of acdemic scholarship, the school that produced 4 PhDs or the one that produced 1000?</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>As seen above, the percentage number has the opposite weakness. It rewards small schools merely for being small.</p>
<p>That doesn’t mean that these analyses are without merit. It just means that comparing apple to oranges (or a grape to a watermelon) weakens the data. A better analysis would be one where the big schools are compared only to other big schools and likewise the small schools.</p>
<p>Interesteddad, I appreciate your posting the absolute numbers.</p>
<p>What do you know? My wife and I went to the number 1 school and my daughter goes to number 2. :)</p>
<p>Coureur:</p>
<p>Obviously, there is truth to what you say. However, when some of the smallest schools on this list are producing 700+ PhDs over a ten year period, it is hardly a statistical aberation on the scale of a Tonga.</p>
<p>Also, what you say ignores much of the research that shows small interactive classes have a significant positive impact on educational outcomes.</p>
<p>I would argue that one of the true benefits of these lists is that they highlight schools such as Knox. Without having done much research on Knox, I would hazard a guess that it is probably easier to get into than Duke, Columbia, UC-Berkeley out of state, Dartmouth, Northwestern, etc. Yet, clearly, Knox is offering a quality education. So, for a student with qualification in the Knox range, this kind of list could be extremely useful in identifying a “diamond in the rough”. I mean, who needs a list to know that Duke, Columbia, and UC-Berkeley are good schools?</p>
<p>This comes up over and over again. Apples are being compared with oranges. The only valid comparisons would go as follows:</p>
<ol>
<li>Large Universities with a full range of doctoral and professional school programs</li>
<li>Large Universities without a full range of doctoral and professional school programs</li>
<li>Small LAC’s with 3-2 programs leading professional degrees…</li>
</ol>
<p>You get the picture. Also, for the life of me I can’t understand why the studies don’t add in % for people getting terminal degrees in other areas (MD, JD, DDS, whatever). Are those of us who don’t have PhD’s somehow less reflective of the intellectual validity of a school?? I wasn’t heavily engaged in academic pursuits at MIT because I went on to med school instead of a PhD in Biology. Hooey.</p>
<br>
<br>
<p>I agree. As I said, these analyses have some merit, but by comparing large and small directly you run the risk of concluding that Berkeley is nowhere when it comes to Ph.D. production, since it is nowhere on the percentage list. I think a large vs. large and small vs. small percentage analyses would permit proper comparisons and serve to highlight the “diamonds in the rough” without inaccurately portraying large schools as somehow deficient in PhD production.</p>
<p>so… it’s not clear to me why this ranking is important. :-P</p>
<p>Interesteddad, do you have any information on the relationship between income and the likelihood of getting a PHD?</p>
<p>And what happened to Columbia?</p>