A Real What Would You Do

Parent Cafe
1

<p>Interested in your advice for an aquaintance.</p>

<p>Friend is a prof at a college with an administration that prides itself on operating a conservative campus – no alcohol on campus even for faculty, no males/females sharing rooms overnight – even though it’s not a religiously-affiliated school. Friend plans to take a small, select group of students to volunteer for several days with secondary school youths in a religiously-affiliated, conservative nonprofit program that’s far away.</p>

<p>The trip will probably get extensive coverage in the college’s community and the community where they will volunteer. </p>

<p>After selecting the students for the all-expense-paid trip, friend Googled one to get more info about the student’s professional background and stumbled upon web pages with pictures showing the student modeling lingerie in suggestive (but not explicit) poses for modeling agencies that appear to supply models to men’s magazines that have scantily clad, but not nude women, and to serve as hostesses at celebrity parties. The student was identified by full name with bio info. No question this is the person scheduled to go on the trip.</p>

<p>At the college, however, the student is a legal adult, a good student who dresses and acts appropriately. The student’s skills fit well with the volunteer program.</p>

<p>Do you think that the professor should take the student on the trip? There are other students who could replace the student. What would you do?</p>

2

<p>My first reaction: you can make money by wearing lingerie to men’s parties? Hmm… my daughter is unemployed… </p>

<p>My second reaction: didn’t they cover this on Grey’s Anatomy a few years back?</p>

<p>My third reaction: oh, who cares? </p>

<p>My fourth reaction: does the professor care? If so, she should discuss it with the student. Does the student realize that this job–which I expect pays her tuition–may jeopardize her chances to go on student trips?</p>

3

<p>If this person is a legal adult and has not done anything illegal, than here is no reason to take her off the trip. This person was obviously chosen for outstanding qualities.</p>

4

<p>I think this requires the advice of the college’s attorney and public relations professionals.</p>

<p>There could be delicate issues if the student goes on the trip and if her outside activities somehow become public in connection with publicity for the trip.</p>

<p>On the other hand, the student apparently has not broken the law. If the student has not broken any college policies, there could be legal consequences if the student were removed from the trip without an adequate reason.</p>

5

<p>The concern is that as part of the volunteering, the student is serving as a role model and a representative of the university. While the student’s behavior in class has been exemplary, the web pages raised questions about the student’s general lifestyle and what the student considers appropriate behavior. Things that are fine for adults to do on their free time would not be appropriate on this trip, and the student may not realize that even with an orientation beforehand. </p>

<p>In addition, since the trip will be covered by media, there’s a chance that reporters may stumble upon the student’s web pages and include such info in stories, which could reflect badly on the program since the student volunteers are supposed to be role models.</p>

<p>The prof also has concerns about what exactly are the jobs of lingerie models and hostesses at celebrity parties. Could this be some kind of escort service work, for instance, something the student isn’t likely to admit? Does anyone know about what lingerie models and hostesses really are paid to do?</p>

<p>Since the trip is strictly volunteer, at no cost to the volunteers, and being chosen is an honor, I doubt there would be legal consequences for removing the student from the trip for any reason.</p>

6

<p>This is the problem we run into when we (government or ordinary citizens) attempt to impose our morality on others. If she was gainfully employed as a model for Victoria’s Secret, while continuing to go to school, would she be banned from the trip? </p>

<p>Sounds to me she’s done nothing illegal, nor has she broken any school policies. She is obviously a student in good standing, and one who has, perhaps, discovered a lucrative and legal way to fund her college education. So she’s self-reliant as well. I have no idea what’s required of a “hostess for celebrity parties.” I doubt it’s a code phrase for hooker, though. If he has any doubts, he should ask her.</p>

7

<p>If I were the prof, I wouldn’t want to make this call. I’d talk to the general counsel and other higher-ups, though I feel “exposing” her would jeopardize her standing at the college. Still, the good name of the, I assume, private college and the nonprofit program are at stake.</p>

<p>What she’s doing is legal, and I’m not passing judgment on her, but the prof has to think of the good of the school and program.</p>

<p>ETA: I would talk to the student first and give her the opportunity to pull her name so that her job isn’t discovered by the college admin, who would look on it disapprovingly.</p>

8

<p>It seems that she is acting against the <em>spirit</em> of the rules of the institution, even if not in violation of the letter of the law, so to speak. It seems to me that there is a mismatch between the student and the institution. But we don’t know why she is at that particular school.</p>

<p>If the professor’s foremost concern is to CYA personally and institutionally, s/he should put the matter directly into the hands of the legal department.</p>

<p>If the professor’s foremost concern is the welfare of the student, s/he should call the student in for a conference, confront her with the evidence, and discuss the matter before deciding what to do. The professor may find that the student is being forced to attend this institution by her family and thinks the rules are a crock. Or that she loves the place but has to make tuition money and didn’t see anything wrong with what she was doing. Or she loves the place and knows that what she’s doing is against the values that she presumably shares, but she was weak in the face of making big bucks vs $7 per hour waitressing. Or that she’s using the money to help support her siblings. Or any number of scenarios. The professor may require that in return for his/her silence the girl a) stop making a living this way and b) immediately remove her images and personal info from the net. Or s/he may decide to turn her in but go with her to make a confession and plead for clemency. Or not.</p>

9

<p>Is this work in keeping with the school’s honor code?</p>

10

<p>I would take this student on the trip. If she hasn’t broken any school policies or rules or codes of conduct ON campus, I am not sure what she does on her own time to earn money (which appears to be legal no less) should have any impact. She was selected for all the proper reasons. I don’t see where a background check of everything else in her life is relevant. She is abiding by rules at school and is an exemplarary student enough to have been selected. I don’t see why her modeling jobs matter. I would not remove her. I don’t think she has any requirement to divulge her job off campus either.</p>

11

<p>Do students have some sort of behavior code that they agree to as a condition of matriculation? Were there similar conditions for going on this trip?</p>

<p>There might not be legal consequences, but it seems that there are already public relations consequences. To this outsider, it sounds like the school is doing a poor job of communicating its values to its students. Alternatively, it sounds like the school is being inconsistent in deciding how students can behave off-campus. I agree with everyone who thinks that the prof shouldn’t be the one to make the final call on this one, even if he talks to the student first.</p>

12

<p>“…remove her images and personal info from the net…”</p>

<p>This is impossible as anyone can search The Wayback Machine machine (an Internet achive). Once something is on the Internet it remains there in perpetuity.</p>

13

<p>I would ask myself if the trip is about people or institutions. </p>

<p>If it’s about people, then I would take the student even if her “reputation” might affect the trip/program/institution’s own reputation. Perhaps this student would be influenced by the values of the host program or by meeting with the children. She might figure out for herself that her hostess/modeling work is incongruent with her volunteer work and this revelation could be life changing for her. </p>

<p>On the other hand, if the trip is about preserving the college’s reputation or the program’s reputation, if it’s about “selling” a collection of values rather than actually connecting with real and flawed people, then by all means your friend should select people who will do that. In that case, replacing this young woman with someone who is less risky would be wise.</p>

<p>Edit: I think it’s fine for your friend to speak privately to the student to get more information about her work and to see if the student even realizes that what she is doing in her work life seems incongruent with the school and program’s values.</p>

14

<p>I think replacing the student woand. hoo…what if she worked at Hooters? She could be a non drinking virgin who works really hard but works at Hooters…do you dismiss her? Or you could have a sweet innocent looking boy who parties hearty and will go bonkers when he is away from the college…</p>

<p>I find it really sad that we are even having to have this discussion. She isn’t a hooker…she is a girl who is finding a way to pay for school most likely, and maybe if the school had better financial aid, she wouldn’t have to do this…</p>

<p>Do we honestly think that the people talking about the program are going to google each and every participany and then go OMG she is a MODEL…</p>

<p>and this line throws me:</p>

<p>“Things that are fine for adults to do on their free time would not be appropriate on this trip, and the student may not realize that even with an orientation beforehand.”</p>

<p>This girl has managed to keep her private life private, if no one knew about her line of work, if she has managed to do that, why do you think she will suddenly do girls on wild on this trip?</p>

<p>You know, it could be one of those “perfect on paper” types who goes crazy on the trip…who are sudden’y in the world…it DOES happen…you have a girl who has can seperate her work from her schooling ( and do we even KNOW if she has done much modelling or party hostesing? Maybe she signed up but hasn’t even done very much, because it wasn’t for her, but didn’t pull the pictures? a whole lot of assumptions goings on here for a girl that seems to be a good student, well behave when she needs to be, etc)</p>

15

<p>cgm, no one said she’d behave inappropriately or even has in the past. But, for me, the prof’s first responsibility is to the institution and the nonprofit, as a trip adviser. If he speaks to the girl and she’d rather pull her name than go on the trip, then that’s her choice. If she does pull out of the trip, then the prof shouldn’t feel compelled to “rat her out.” He came across the information on his own and so can the college.</p>

16

<p>There is nothing to indicate that what the girl is doing is against the institution’s honor code, so that’s not what is concerning the professor. What’s concerning the professor is that the trip is for community service reasons – to help a group of disadvantaged youths, and the students selected for the trip were selected because they were believed to be good role models and to have the skills needed for the trip.</p>

<p>There also are hopes that the trip will lead to a continued and expanded relationship between the college and the nonprofit and city where the nonprofit is, something that would be breaking new ground for the college.</p>

<p>Another concern is that the trip will be to a city that is a magnet for many tourists, including college students, who like to party. While the volunteers will be very busy all day and into the early evening, after that, their time would be their own, but what the volunteers do would still reflect on the nonprofit and their college. Someone who had bad judgement during their free time could cause lots of problems. </p>

<p>I continue to wonder about what the real job requirements are of lingerie models and celebrity hostesses. Are these jobs fronts for offering sexual services like escort services and massage parlors are? If so, this isn’t something the student would reveal to the prof.</p>

<p>I am reminded of what happened when a warm hearted, middle aged female friend of mine befriended a young woman whom she had met at a religious retreat. When the young woman later contacted my friend and expressed interest in moving to our city, my friend invited her to stay at her apartment while job hunting. </p>

<p>I met the young woman, who was conservatively dressed and seemed quiet and sweet.</p>

<p>A few days later, my friend called me for advice because it ended up that the young woman was a call girl and addict who had spent the night with the apartment building’s custodian, drank up all of his liquor, then returned to my friend’s apartment and began yelling and cursing so loudly that the police came.</p>

<p>I’m wondering if this is the kind of situation the professor would be risking by taking the student on the trip.</p>

17

<p>“I continue to wonder about what the real job requirements are of lingerie models and celebrity hostesses. Are these jobs fronts for offering sexual services like escort services and massage parlors are? If so, this isn’t something the student would reveal to the prof.”</p>

<p>And she doesn’t have to. She can simply say, “Prof, I understand your concern. I will remove myself from consideration.”</p>

<p>New kid gets to go. She stays but doesn’t have her “secret” revealed. College’s/nonprofit’s image remains intact. Prof dodges bullet. Win-win-win-win.</p>

18

<p>Since the question asks: “what would you do”? I will answer directly.</p>

<p>I would “forget” that I googled the kid. I was not required to google the kid. I have no reason to be probing her private life.</p>

19

<p>“And she doesn’t have to. She can simply say, “Prof, I understand your concern. I will remove myself from consideration.””</p>

<p>Very true, but she also could say, “I pose in lingerie and I smile and am gracious to celebrities at parties, and I’m really glad to be going on the trip.”</p>

<p>“I would “forget” that I googled the kid. I was not required to google the kid. I have no reason to be probing her private life.”</p>

<p>The prof wasn’t probing her private life: He was trying to find out more bio info to send to the organization that will be getting the services.</p>

<p>The trip is expected to be in the press as it’s a big deal for the college and the nonprofit. Journalists are good friends with Google and routinely use it when working on stories. People who have guest speakers also often use Google to get more info for publicity releases. I’ve done that myself. It’s amazing how often people like guest speakers forget to provide impressive information about themselves.</p>

20

<p>I realize what the prof was trying to do and that he stumbled upon the additional information. But I am just saying what I would do. Finding out is one thing, asking more questions, wondering about what it all means, and acting on the information is another. I would just keep it professional and let her keep it private. Unless I had information about actual illegal activity. That would be my threshold.</p>

<p>If things are discovered and exposed by the media, well then, that is what the media does. Let the scandal play out.</p>