"A Who cares? Attitude"

Parent Cafe
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<p>maybe this is one of those Count Your Blessings moments- he isn’t in jail, doing drugs, stealing, isn’t a dad, etc</p>

<p>Sure its frustrating knowing he can do better, and who knows, maybe something will “click” later this year, that happens ALOT</p>

<p>they see their teammates NOT getting into colleges for their sports, etc and someone elses reality sinks in</p>

<p>that being said, its okay to “encourage” and provide opportunities for growth</p>

<p>have him talk to a golf pro who can explain how hard it can be and how few make it</p>

22

<p>How about a boy who’s not all that into ANYthing particular?</p>

<p>Works hard enough to get OK grades, but could do better. No favorite classes. Decent athlete. Has stayed out of trouble. Just doesn’t seem to have any specific interests. When I hear of people on CC looking ahead to college searches with their 10th graders, I realize we are clueless. He has no idea what he wants out of college, let alone what he might like to do some day.</p>

<p>I would never expect a 10th grader to know what they want to do with their life, but at this point even a hobby would be nice!</p>

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<p>lspf72: Does he do any extracurricular activities? Sports team? Anything else at school? Doesn’t have to be a passion, just a like. Perhaps you could brainstorm about a summer activity, some short away “camp” experience – academic, karate, whatever strikes his fancy, and he could begin now. </p>

<p>This exploratory activities start to pave the way for college choices. </p>

<p>He’ll get into college shopping as his friends do. None of the boys in S’s group were interested, and then, bam, everyone was, and with good results.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Yea, having fun is the main ingredient. If not at least the right attitude. Each person is different. While both my daughter and son were very serious in their studies, they were both so different. My daughter busted her butt off and graduated high school in the IB program, all advanced classes, with a 3.75gpa. Very respectable. </p>

<p>My son on the other hand has maintained a 4.0 since the 1st grade. Class rank #1. He too is in the IB program taking all the advanced classes. He is a senior this year. Is in his 3rd year playing Varsity Football. He plays varsity soccer here in the spring (Yes it’s in the spring here) and has also been playing on the varsity team there also since the 10th grade. He does all this and maintains a 4.0gpa. His only problem he sees is that there isn’t enough time in a day. He takes everything so hard core balls to the wall. While I know he could have done better, I had to assure him that a 29 ACT was enough and not to stress trying to get a 32-36. He retook it and still scored a 29 and decided to back off and settle with that.</p>

<p>He is 3 years younger than his sister. The point is, he is a lot more serious about everything he does than she is. She is much more dramatic. Both however are perfectionists. At least to the degree of doing your best. I think that is the answer. Doing your best is more important than the gpa, the class ranking, Summa Cum Laude, etc… If it means your best isn’t the “Top” because you chose to allocate some of your time towards recreational or personal endeavors, then more power to you. </p>

<p>I’ve tried to teach my children that life is too short to waste time. You can waste money and earn more. You can waste possessions and buy more. You just can’t waste time. If you have a job to do, then do it ONCE. Do it RIGHT. Move on to something else. Life is indeed very short. The older you become, the more you realize it. Some at an earlier age than others. I spent 21 years in the military. Maybe it was going off to far away countries with a group of others, and not everyone coming back made me change my opinions. Maybe it was living and working in 3rd world countries like in the Amazon and seeing true poverty yet happiness that made me view the world differently. Maybe as you get older and your children grow up, more of your family members die off, and friends grow apart, that you start to realize how short life is.</p>

<p>There is no real advice. There are only so many truths in the world. One of those truths is that your life is finite. You are going to die some day. It could be in 50 years or it could be in 5 months. And unless you honestly believe that something you are currently doing is going to somehow change the course of human events for all of mankind, like a cure for cancer, then it’s not that important. Not enough to put it ahead of your family, friends, self, health, happiness, etc… Some people are fortunate enough to go beyond finding a job. They find a career. Something they truly love to do. Something they look forward to every morning. But even with a career, it CAN’T come ahead of you, your children, your family, your friends, or your happiness and health. Remember, “Life’s a B*tch, and then you die”. Make the most of it and have fun. Later… Mike…</p>

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<p>I was listening to the radio this morning and a man who worked in water treatment for 26 years was talking about his job</p>

<p>to many they would go, ewwww…and he did, at first, then he realized what he did mattered, his work is invaluable, maybe not his dream job, but his life was good, full and he was proud of his place in the world</p>

<p>we have to remember that when we look at our children- not everyone is going to design that bridge, but many will make it work</p>

<p>not everyone is going to be a doctor, but the people taking away their dangerous waste are important</p>

<p>not everyone is going to be a business vp, but many will have very content lives fixes their copiers</p>

<p>my H is a contractor- works with his hands, much self trained, and he is one happy dude</p>

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<p>lspf72 – my son was like yours. No EC’s in 10th grade, did what he had to do to get A’s at a middling public school but no more than that, no athletics, very little interest even in socializing with kids outside of school. His main interests were reading and video games. He went off to college without a clear idea of what he wanted to major in, too. He’s now age 24, a senior at his second college, and starts a Congressional internship tomorrow. His life is good. It just took him awhile to get his bearings. </p>

<p>So I say … just wait – give the kid time and space to grow, and don’t worry if it doesn’t happen on a fast trajectory.</p>

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<p>Sarahsmom, our son was somewhat like yours and is doing fantastic in college poised to graduate with high honors from college. We preferred to describe him as laid back.</p>

<p>By your screen name I suspect that you also have a daughter too. Typically girls take hs classwork far more seriously than boys do, though there are exceptions. Try not to compare the habits of the two too critically.</p>

<p>I know it is somewhat frustrating watching a son not achieve up to his full potential but yours is doing reasonably well and I assume doing A level work in subject that interest him.</p>

<p>The fact that he must realize is that to achieve some level of college success he will have to work much harder than he does now and be prepared to actually do that when the time comes. Our role as parents is to instill some level of discipline in our children that they can fall back on later in life. For us it was merely that our son set aside a couple hours a nite to school work. That was it.</p>

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<p>aj: Think about Lady Justice and her scales. They’re not just for evidence; they’re for your life. One scale is work, school, studying, etc. The second scale is love, friends, families, hobbies, non-work interests. Tip too far in either direction and it’s not good. It’s all about balance.</p>

<p>Sarahsmom and others with this issue: Have any of you read “Rich Dad, Poor Dad” by Robert Kiwosaki? He talks about different learning and how his “rich dad” encouraged his style, which was very “hands on”. That style wasn’t encouraged in school, so he did just what he needed to get by. He’s now extremely successful.</p>

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<p>Sarahsmom,
I would definitely echo what everyone else has said, as a Mother of Son, I have some experience in that arena.
I do just want to add something about the pro golfer thing. I also have some direct experience with that route. Only about 1 percent of kids who play golf on college scholarships go on to become pros. Many of those pros do not make a living playing golf. There is a tremendous cost to travel and play in tournaments and if you don’t win, you don’t get paid. Sponsors are out there for the top players but not every player can pick up sponsors.<br>
I wouldn’t be stressing over getting your son to pick up the academics enough to go to an Ivy or top tier because I am not in the camp that believes second or third tiers schools are less worthwhile.
But I would make sure he understands what the odds are with any professional sport and that he knows an education at any college should be his first priority.
One way I dealt with this with my son at the sophomore year was to explain that if he didn’t strive to do his best in school he was closing a door. Narrowing his options for what schools he could apply to and get accepted to. Not that he had to apply to certain schools but that he was creating fewer options. It worked a bit…</p>

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<p>Thanks for the replies.</p>

<p>In our case, it was just easier to know what S1 liked. From the time he was little, he went through specific phases-- (Ghostbusters :), Star Wars, fighter planes, ancient history, etc). Was and still is devoted to his sport. Great work ethic got him through high school with flying colors. </p>

<p>Some downsides, though. Now in college, he has almost tunnel vision about his future career, to the point I’m afraid he won’t explore much, or even try classes he might love (history, communications). It’s up to him, but college is an amazing opportunity that you get only once (usually).</p>

<p>S2 is just more laid back, I guess. As mythmom said, it’s ‘likes’ rather than passions. That’s fine, but it’s defnitely harder to read these guys. Perhaps it’s a middle child thing. He IS fairly creative, and enjoyed his art classes last year. Couldn’t fit any into this year’s schedule, unfortunately. Feels like an opportunity lost. Couldn’t find a job this past summer, didn’t want camp, and sat around the house so much we finally sent him downtown to find a volunteer job, which he ended up enjoying well enough. </p>

<p>So, we’ll havve to be patient. Guess that’s also what college is for. Maybe a liberal arts-type curriculum would be in order. He really liked S1’s school, which offers a bit of incentive.</p>

<p>I think it reminds me of the line in Ferris Bueller’s Day off, where Ferris’ friends ask each other what they’re interested in doing with their lives. One says “nothing,” and the other says “me, neither!” :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>Thanks for the great responses! Son came home and immediately started working on his putting after golf practice tonight. After an hour, I suggested that he put that kind of effort into “Huck Finn” which he’s reading for English. “Oh, Mom… Give me a break” was his reply. There seem to be two things that motivate him these days, golf and money. I can threaten “no golf” this weekend to get him going on his work. I’ve never believed in "paying"kids for good grades. I believe that it needs to come from within, but he just does not have the same thirst for learning that his sister’s do. It just kills me! What did I do wrong that he’s not curious, doesn’t dig deeper or ask why?
Does anyone here Pay for A’s?</p>

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<p>I have a deal with my son for A’s on progress reports and a seperate deal for report cards. Sometimes we remember, sometimes we don’t. He reminds me when he wants something, but generally it’s a fairly longterm “want” so I think a long term incentive/reward is reasonable. (Like Halo 3 legendary edition). I hope the message is long term work brings long term rewards. No money for DD but she gets to do more EC’s when she demonstrates being able to handle it. Usually it’s a spring theatre production.</p>

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<p>I hate to say this, but he sounds like a younger version of my husband! Though he didn’t golf too much when he was young. He gradually became more obsessed with it over the years-- starting around the time our kids arrived, actually…</p>

<p>There’s hope, though-- If you’re in the Boston area that means good golf weather should be ending soon (though with these weird warm winters we’ve been having lately, who knows). Maybe more cerebral interests will take over in the winter months.</p>

<p>We have never paid for grades, but I certainly think it’s fair to ask/expect him to concentrate as much on academics as he does on his sport.</p>

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<p>lspf72, A golf widow, huh. My sister too. Maybe you should take up a hobby that leaves him alone w/the kids for several hours on weekends. My sis calls it “shopping!” Good point on the golf except he also plays basketball. I think we’re going to try some kind of reward system as well as “At least three A’s if you want to play!” He can easily do it if he’d try. If he doesn’t learn the study skills now, he will be in trouble in college no matter where he goes.</p>

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<p>Shrinkwrap, Your suggestion may work for us, we just have to come up with the right incentive. I’m trying to focus on the positive with him today. He DID put his bowl in the dishwasher this morning, too bad he could care less about his room! I’m trying not to sweat the small stuff, but grades are no small matter IMO.</p>

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<p>I think the fact that he sometimes forgets the money reflects the eventual probability that we can “fade” the external incentive. Ultimately for him though, a well paying job may be the most powerful incentive. He so enjoys “the good life”.</p>

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<p>So does my golfer boy. Hey, maybe we’ll bargin next season’s membership at the golf course!</p>

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<p>I would use GOLF as the bribe- maybe playing somewhere he likes but can’t play one, a lesson from a pro- a thimajig or dodad</p>

<p>so take what he loves and use that as incentive, not to take something away, but to get something he wants</p>

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<p>Negative reinforcement makes kids want to do something less… That’s how it worked with me at least.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/proj/nru/nr.html[/url]”>http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/proj/nru/nr.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The concept of Negative Reinforcement is difficult to teach and learn because of the word negative. Negative Reinforcement is often confused with Punishment. They are very different, however.
Negative Reinforcement strengthens a behavior because a negative condition is stopped or avoided as a consequence of the behavior. </p>

<p>Punishment, on the other hand, weakens a behavior because a negative condition is introduced or experienced as a consequence of the behavior.</p>

<p>Here are two examples of Negative Reinforcement:

  1.  A rat is placed in a cage and immediately receives a mild electrical shock on its feet. The shock is a negative condition for the rat. The rat presses a bar and the shock stops. The rat receives another shock, presses the bar again, and again the shock stops. The rat's behavior of pressing the bar is strengthened by the consequence of the stopping of the shock. 

  2.  Driving in heavy traffic is a negative condition for most of us. You leave home earlier than usual one morning, and don't run into heavy traffic. You leave home earlier again the next morning and again you avoid heavy traffic. Your behavior of leaving home earlier is strengthened by the consequence of the avoidance of heavy traffic.&lt;/p&gt;

<p>For kids like my son, punishment gets old quick; way to hard to keep up. Way to likely he’ll give up. An “Incentive”, or positive reinforcement, though also hard to be consistant with, is much better. My kids groan when I use that word …</p>