If you are an Ole Miss family, your student should consider the culture differences with Big 10 schools/towns. IU Kelley is the best combination in the Big 10 of ability to get in, favorable outcomes, but so so great athletics. If your student is going to leave SEC footprint, then I would consider IU or FSU for business, but besides that he might just be better off at Ole Miss and go away for MBA. If he wants to get a good education in the southern part of the country (DFW isn’t the south), then I would consider TCU and SMU.
If he’s looking for a nice place to spend 4 years he could look at FSU. Nice campus with happy kids. Great sports scene. S21 is very happy there. Your son would be competitive for the OOS waiver and honors program.
It’s a sample of one but a close friend’s son graduated from ND. Tippy top student we thought would apply to MIT and similar schools. Nope. State flagship and ND only. I think he did physics and some type of finance as a double major. Interned at one of the top hedge funds. Now works for another hedge fund and is doing well. Know several other ND grads. They’ve all done well.
I know several ND grads from both work places - they’re like anyone else.
I think what it comes down to is - and OP didn’t mention I Banking but rather fund management - but if the student is laser focused on one area that having a name is a huge help, then they can decide whether it’s worth it or not to break the budget.
If it’s - you never know - unlikely to end up there but it’s nice having options, then the same.
If it’s like - risk / reward, we’d rather save the money - then that’s fine too.
You can spend less and still have options. Not sure if anyone mentioned Rutgers or W&M - even full pay will be much less than ND. It’s not on the feeder list but I’ve read from several on here they get regular bites, etc. Fordham is another name I’ve seen many times. And we know schools like ASU and others have had success - ASU has a formal program. UNC too - even though OP eliminated it. And IU is on the feeder list - and it’s much less than Notre Dame. The issue with IU is - if the transcript shows a 3.7 and not a higher weighted - they take the # on the transcript - and so you need a 3.8 and it’d be a safety (for Kelley) - the university itself is safe.
But again, I think the career conversation got way out ahead of the parents and truth be told, how many at 17 go in laser focused with an idea (I did) and it doesn’t work out (it didn’t for me). And how many go in having no clue, end up in some industry/discipline by accident - and look back years later at the wow, who knew it was going to happen?
And then of course, the parents still have to overcome the idea that the student actually wants Ole Miss…
In many cases - certainly this case - it’s a risk/reward that the family has to decide - is it worth going to a $90K big name school and breaking the self imposed budget for a career that the student may…or may not have any interest in.
Now we are getting down to the brass tacks. While the cover story may be Notre Dame is the one because…finance, the real story is Notre Dame is the one because:
- He fell in love with it.
- We all fell in love with it.
By the time we got to Notre Dame, I was pretty discouraged that no school was going to change his mind about going to Ole Miss, so when he was blown away by it, I was thrilled.
Now, the real question is whether Notre Dame is a school that will change the trajectory of his life for the better regardless of his major or his future career.
Baring my soul a little here: I’m terrified that he doesn’t have the self-discipline and maturity to manage the party scene at Ole Miss and come out unscathed. I know him well enough to know that if he doesn’t have academic competition, he will lower his own standards. He gravitates toward the wild ones, but tends to be on the tamer end of the wild spectrum. I have this possibly delusional notion that even if they play hard at Notre Dame, no matter who he surrounds himself with, they will have the ability to balance that with academic rigor and he will find that balance also.
So, there it is.
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Most of my kids are work hard play hard (a couple are mostly play hard), so I get it. My work hard play hard kids surrounded themselves with the same. We did not have the budget for schools like ND (one turned down Villanova honors for UDel). They all did very well at college (one is at the very top of her business school class at Clemson, 4.0 rising senior, honors, 121 credits going into senior year, she plays pretty hard). My work somewhat play hard 25 year old (who’s college gpa I have no knowledge of, regional college) has hit the 6 figure mark (finance major). Had no graduation due to COVID, so I was thrilled to see the diploma. One of his best friend’s went to ND (HS valedictorian, not play hard, but work hard). But almost every college will have very bright, successful hard working students, because not everyone can afford an elite college. Most can’t. In HS, most of my kids’ friends were at the top of the class (school doesn’t rank but they figured it out). Most went to public universities, did well, and are gainfully employed. My husband is a CFP, our retirement funds are fine.
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Thank you for your honesty. I appreciate that.
The other thing is college is about growth and maturity. They have to get fed, clean, do the wash, study - all without mom and dad reminding them.
No matter where they are - hopefully they figure that out but they are who they are.
If they don’t learn responsibility for themselves - I don’t think it will matter where they are - it can be a struggle.
If the family loves ND and is comfortable paying, the great. If not but you love that type of environment, there are other schools, maybe not as prestigious, but in a similar mold that would cost less.
I can only speak for two I’ve worked with - the ND people can out drink anyone - and they are no different than others in regards to their marriage. I don’t think where you go, short of a few schools, impacts that part. But yes, academically a UND will be far more studious.
Yes, this is absolutely true. He has been doing his own laundry since he was about 10 yo. At this point, even when I offer to do it for him, he says he prefers to do it himself. He is able to cook some basic dishes in order to feed himself and he has had chores around the house since little bitty. He values a modicum of cleanliness that will serve him well when he goes to college.
He has always been pretty self motivated when it comes to studying, but he definitely let that slip his junior year, in favor of social life. We could have restricted his social life and forced him to study more, but we chose to point out the trajectory and allow him to make his choice. He now sees the effects in a lower GPA, which has a direct effect on how competitive his apps are.
My husband and I are having these hard conversations with each other now, and it really is helpful to have some of these outside perspectives coming in and making me think about all sides of this. We both grew up very poor but worked hard, 1st gen college students, and made good careers for ourselves. The outcome is that our kids know none of that difficulty, and take things for granted that we never would have.
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My S23 just finished his first year at Notre Dame. The balance of work/fun that you are looking for is exactly what we saw and what we were hoping for too. He absolutely loves it there. He and his friends had a lot of fun, went to all the football games, etc., but did not overdo it and all were highly motivated and super serious students. I wouldn’t say party hard/work hard, probably more like party mid/work hard. I’m sure this is not unique to ND, and you can find balance like this many places, but our family fell for ND too and it did not disappoint. It truly is a special place.
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That’s so wonderful for you! Just curious, what part of the country are you in?
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New Jersey…keep the jokes low please 
I honestly don’t know what the joke is! We are in Mississippi, so…
The only reason I asked is because ND is the furthest from home we are looking at and the travel is a REAL part of the consideration.
Also, I have family in Jersey. Bayonne of all places 
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Oh Exit 14a.
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You know your kid best. One of my D19’s friends partied way too hard at a state school with a party reputation, dropped out (covid hit but was on verge of dropping out anyway), later ended up at Berkeley (via CC) and did the work hard part successfully. So I get exactly what you’re saying, and I think you know your kid. Everyone has their own decision points on cost/benefit but I know if that were me and - assuming it would not be a burden to afford it, which is the big assumption - my kid loved it, I thought it would be better for my kid’s academic success and it’s a target for what kid thinks he wants to do (and is a good name even if he ends up wanting something else)…i’d be doing it.
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I empathize. A couple of thoughts here:
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You let him live his life junior year and he saw the effects on his GPA. Perhaps that was enough of a lesson.
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You and your spouse, as well as your son, might want to think about what the effects/consequences are if your kid ends up being a 3.0 GPA vs. 3.5 GPA kid vs. a 4.0 kind of GPA kid. At what point do you think the outcomes are going to differ? At what point does he care about the differences in outcomes? At what point (or $ amount) do you and your spouse care?
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You might have some kind of a GPA requirement for him to keep his family scholarship, with a one-semester probation period if he fails to meet that GPA (elaborated a bit in this post, with a follow-up on the GPA a few posts later) if you think he might need some guardrails in place to keep him motivated.
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You might require, or strongly urge, him to live in an honors dorm/floor or LLC for his first year. Additionally/alternatively, not allow him to rush his freshman year, if that was something of interest (unless, perhaps, the fraternity’s average GPA was higher than the school’s GPA, or higher than a certain level).
I suspect you and your spouse have already thought about this, but I just want to put it out there in case you haven’t. I would give very strong consideration as to what kind of a budget your family intends to pay for college/postsecondary interests for ALL of your kids. Every family is different, but I will say that I’ve seen cases where the oldest kid attended a college that cost the family a lot of money, and then the younger kids had significantly smaller budgets and it caused a lot of family friction. Just want to put this on your radar.
Also, I empathize abut kids who take things for granted that you never would have. You and your spouse might want to discuss how your kid will get spending money in college. Perhaps they need to use their summer employment money or work part-time in college. I know there are studies that show that students who work 8-12 hours a week or similar end up having higher GPAs because they have to be more cognizant of time management and getting their schoolwork done appropriately. Alternatively/additionally, maybe the family scholarship has a stipend amount that varies based upon the GPA.
You seem very thoughtful about this process and I suspect that all will turn out well. Looking forward to seeing how the college application and decision process goes for your family!
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Curious what you found “grossly unappealing” about the UVA tour. We just did one and the found the campus beautiful and the tour guides very helpful and knowledgeable.
All very good points. He is our second going to college. We have one more behind him. We have equal college funds for them, and S27 fell in love with ND also. He will get the same options as his brother.
Our daughter (now 28) went to CC, then to Ole Miss, but didn’t graduate. She’s happily pursuing her dream of owning her own business training horses and riders in dressage and eventing in Colorado.
We have talked to him about the conditions and expectations for college and we are sorting out spending budgets and student employment. I like the suggestions about dorms/rush conditions. Thank you for the post link also.
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Wow that’s very interesting. It was truly the most unkempt grounds and poorly run tour we have attended.
We felt like we were an inconvenience from the very beginning. The email with instructions for parking and arriving at the destination were difficult to navigate and quite frustrating compared to the others we attended. The presentation was lackluster before the actual tour. The grounds were lacking in care, buildings appeared dirty and lacking maintenance. We simply did not get the level of “customer service” we got at other campuses. No one seemed to be truly excited or passionate about presenting the college to us.
Perhaps it was an “off” day for them, but we were all shockingly underwhelmed. I say shockingly because my husband and I were really excited for and looking forward to the tour. We had heard such wonderful things about the campus.
Are you talking about UVA or UIUC ? It happens sometimes a school just doesn’t make the grade for someone. We had the same visit you described at UIUC but to others UIUC iS Buckingham Palace just like UVA is beloved too.
It’s always great to visit - whether you love or not - you always learn.
We all see schools differently.
The grass could definitely use some TLC. Been raining a lot they said. Keep in mind those buildings are pretty old…unkempt is one thing they are not though. Everything was pristine inside the business school for example, a lot of new furniture, renovated bathrooms, etc. My daughter liked the campus and the spirit of the school, and will be applying there EA. Chances are not great unfortunately for OOS
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